Fixing the Microbiome - Fighting Pathogens? - Cure Parkinson's

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Fixing the Microbiome - Fighting Pathogens?

Bolt_Upright profile image

I do a lot of things to help my brain and clean up a-synuclein in the gut (and hopefully the brain), but it seems to me that no protocol is complete unless it addresses normalizing the microbiome, and assuming that if there is some pathogen in the microbiome that started this cascade, addressing that pathogen (be it virus, fungus, bacteria, or heavy metal). And maybe any pathogen is long gone, and trying to fight it will only drive the body to attack itself?

I'd be interested in knowing what other people are doing, or considering, to address this leg of the chair please.

The only things I have d found so far are:

1 - The Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD): The SCD has been shown to normalize the microbiome in people with Crohn's ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a... and UC. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

2 - Nigella Sativa (black seeds): I grind these with my coffee grinder. at 4 grams a day but still researching the best dose. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/281...

3 - Selenium and Zeolite Clinoptilolite: I know I am all over the place on Zeolite. I e-mail world experts on it. Yes, it is a superantigen. Is that a bad thing? I don't know. I am still on the fence. Zeolite has been shown to normalize the microbiome, improve intestinal permeability, capture and remove viruses, fungai, bacteria, and toxic metals, and to modulate the immune response. This is what drew me to Zeolite as one part of my treatment plan. The idea that the Zeolite travels all the way through the microbiome makes me think it might help the whole microbiome. Saying all that, I guess that if there is a pathogen in the microbiome, having a superantigen added to the microbiome might be exactly what is needed. I already take Selenium and read an interesting paper on Selenium plus Zeolite helping the immune function of young pigs: frontiersin.org/articles/10...

4 - Butyrate: Butyrate is supposed to improve intestinal permeability. I take sodium butyrate 600 mg a day.

So... thoughts? Recommendations?

29 Replies

Hey, the broccoli tea fights pathogens! healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

bookish profile image
bookish in reply to Bolt_Upright

Any tips on actually getting sprouts? I bought seeds and a sprouter and have tried a couple of times but get minimal germination and they die/mould/smell bad before they are more than a few mm long. It is cold here so maybe won't be helping, but tried with propagator and they still don't grow. Will just germinated be any use? Maybe I just got a bad batch of seed. Cheers

Ghmac profile image
Ghmac in reply to bookish

I have tried doing sprouts over the years and was never very successful. I have discovered this company that sends me seed packets every month. THIS IS FOOL PROOF. The have lots to choose from, but we are doing just broccoli sprouts. hamama.com

bookish profile image
bookish in reply to Ghmac

Thanks for that. I'm glad they are working for you. Sadly they don't seem to be available in UK but I'll look for something similar. Best wishes

Boscoejean profile image
Boscoejean in reply to bookish

yes I am having the same problem with the broccoli sprout seeds not germinating like I was trying to grow a small batch and only about 4 seeds actually grew and I have actually grown sprouts in the past and had most of them sprout so maybe it is this batch which is broccoli seeds

Blastocystis hominis (BH) and IL-17: Found a pathogen?

IL-17 is related to PD. Well IL-17 is also related to Hashimoto's. And Hashimoto's is also related to PD. And frozen shoulder is related to PD and Hashimoto's.

And... IL-17 can be caused by a parasite called Blastocystis hominis. And... this parasite can be killed.

Improving Hashimoto’s thyroiditis by eradicating Blastocystis hominis: Relation to IL-17 Feb 2021 journals.sagepub.com/doi/10...

Background:

Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (HT) is a common autoimmune disorder that causes significant morbidity. Interleukin (IL)-17 was identified as a major contributing factor in the pathogenesis of HT. Blastocystis hominis (BH) is a very common infection and has been shown to be associated with several diseases. Our aim was to determine serum IL-17 level in HT patients with and without BH infection and the effect of eradicating BH in patients with HT.

Methods:

A prospective cohort study was conducted on 20 HT patients not infected with BH (group I), 20 HT patients infected with BH (group II), and 20 healthy patients (group III). Serum free triiodothyronine (FT3), free thyroxine (FT4), thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), thyroid peroxidase antibodies (anti-TPO), and IL-17 were performed by ELISA method and were repeated in group II after 6 weeks of eradication of BH.

Results:

Patients with HT showed a significantly higher serum IL-17 compared with controls. IL-17 was significantly higher in HT patients infected with BH compared with HT patients not BH infected (mean 6.93 ± 2.83 pg/ml versus 3.25 ± 1.55 pg/ml, p = 0.003). After BH eradication TSH, anti-TPO, and IL-17 were significantly decreased (mean 14.76 ± 11.11 µIU/ml versus 9.39 ± 7.11 µIU/ml, p < 0.001; mean 308 ± 175.6 IU/ml versus 295.4 ± 167.1 IU/ml, p = 0.006; and mean 6.93 ± 2.83 pg/ml versus 6.45 ± 2.48 pg/ml, p < 0.001), respectively. Multivariate analysis after treating BH infection showed that IL-17 was significantly negatively correlated with FT3 (adjusted p = 0.002) and significantly positively correlated with anti-TPO (adjusted p = 0.045).

Conclusion:

Treatment of BH infection ameliorates HT through reduction in IL-17, anti-TPO, and TSH.

Clinical trial registration number: PACTR201909495111649

Blastocystis hominis (BH) is the most common intestinal protozoan isolated in humans. Although this parasite remains asymptomatic in most of the cases, yet it can function as an opportunistic pathogen and cause gastrointestinal disorders in immunocompromised patients. BH infection is associated with various diseases and it has been demonstrated that BH has the ability to modulate immune response.5

Th17 cells and their hallmark cytokine IL-17 were identified as major contributing factors in the pathogenesis of HT. Only a few studies addressed the relation between IL-17 and HT. It was interesting to study the level of IL-17 in HT patients with and without BH infection and observe the effect of eradication of BH on IL-17 level and the course of HT.

In group II, BH infection was treated using 500 mg nanazoxid 3 tablets/day for 3 days then clinical examination and laboratory investigations were repeated after 6 weeks of eradication of BH infection.

Results of anti-TPO antibodies showed that it was significantly higher in groups I and II than in the control group (mean 436.6 ± 286.6 IU/ml versus 17.65 ± 5.66 IU/ml and mean 308.0 ± 175.6 IU/ml versus 17.65 ± 5.66 IU/ml, respectively). There was no significant difference in anti-TPO antibodies between groups I and II.

All patients with HT exhibited higher levels of serum IL-17 compared with normal patients. In comparison with the control group, serum IL-17 was significantly higher in patients with HT without BH infection (Group I) (mean 3.25 ± 1.55 pg/ml versus 1.41 ± 0.88 pg/ml, p = 0.002), as well as in patients with HT infected with BH (Group II) (mean 6.93 ± 2.83 pg/ml versus 1.41 ± 0.88 pg/ml, p < 0.001). Moreover, patients with HT who were infected with BH (Group II) showed a significant higher level of serum IL-17 compared with those with HT without BH infection (Group I; mean 6.93 ± 2.83 pg/ml versus 3.25 ± 1.55 pg/ml, p = 0.003).

After treatment of Blastocystis hominis infection:

After treatment of the BH infection, 10 patients in group II reported an improvement in fatigue, while constipation has improved in five patients only, and diarrhea disappeared in all six patients.

In group II, both systolic and diastolic blood pressures remain significantly higher than in the control group. There was no significant difference in both systolic and diastolic blood pressures in group II before and after treatment of BH infection.

TSH was significantly decreased after treatment of the BH infection.

In group II, anti-TPO was decreased significantly after treatment of the BH infection.

Also in group II after treatment of the BH infection in patients with HT, serum IL-17 was significantly decreased in comparison with its level before treating the BH infection.

Thus, it was shown in group II that treatment of a BH infection in patients with HT has resulted in a significant reduction in serum TSH, anti-TPO, and IL-17.

In 2015, for the first time in the literature a case report was published showing that treatment of BH infection can prevent the development and further stop progression of HT.

Conclusion

High serum IL-17 level in HT patients infected with BH supports the potential role of BH in the development of HT. Furthermore, BH eradication in patients with HT resulted in a reduction of serum IL-17 and improved thyroid parameters. Hence, treating BH infection can ameliorate HT and even stop its progression. Yet, such a relation is not definitively proven, and our findings can provide the basis for further multifaceted prospective studies with larger sample sizes.

Do you think these interventions are helping?

Hi park_bear. I've been off the Zeolite for a couple months. I may go back on tomorrow. I think something is helping. I have not fallen out of bed in months. My sense of smell seems to keep getting better. I do my cinnamon every day and my broccoli sprout tea every other day. Lot's of things.

I do think the issue of a microbiome pathogen needs to be addressed (and it seems broccoli tea does just that also).

Short answer: I don't want to jinx myself just yet.

Hi bolt, Can you shoot me a link to your recipe for broccoli sprout tea? I bought some broccoli sprouts seeds from the health food store so I’m ready to try an experiment if it’s not too complicated!

Are you going to make it from seeds or sprout the seeds first?

I use the freeze dried broccoli sprouts. This is the advice I got from wrigga on preparing it:

"Hi everyone,This could be a useful source, but check the quantities (I don't have time to do that right now). Keep the dose low (less than 25micro mol). The dry down ratio of sprouts is normally about 1:10.

I suggest you will get the best extraction of the glucoraphanin by adding it to boiling water for 5 minutes. This will ensure that the ESP protein and the endogenous myrosinase are both fully neutralised. When cooled to below 60°C, add 0.1-0.15g of ground mustard seed and leave to react for 20 minutes. You don't need more than 0.1-0.15g of ground mustard seed independently of the dose of broccoli. This is not a typo.

My current recommendation is that the frequency of ingestion is every 2 or 3 days.

The bioavailability of sulforaphane by this method is very high and rapid. Peak concentration in the blood occurs after 1 hour and is cleared after 6-8 hours. The expression of antioxydent enzymes by Nrf2 upregulation in the nuclei of cells peaks at about 24 hours and declines with a half-life of 2-3 days. Ingestion every 2-3 days keeps a smooth concentration without risking over activation that might occur with daily dosing. Over activation is very unpleasant and possibly dangerous. It also affects the heart and kidneys. Be very careful. "

Rescuema has directions for making it with broccoli sprouts (and also has cautions about iodine) in this thread: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Is sodium butyrate the same thing as butyric acid?

Also, is there any one of these things which you feel has helped you the most, simply based on timing and cause/effect?

Great question. I need to figure this out. I found this:

Sodium butyrate is the sodium salt of butyric acid.

Implications of butyrate and its derivatives for gut health and animal production

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...

"There have been many investigations into the effects of butyrate supplementation into diets on animal performance, in addition to the studies of its potential applications in human health. One of the major problems in the application of butyrate is the difficulty in handling. Butyrate has an offensive odor making it unpleasant to work with, and can deter animals from consuming feed with free butyrate incorporated. Moreover, free butyrate has been shown to be largely absorbed in the upper GIT, meaning that the majority would not reach the large intestine, including the colon, where butyrate would exert its major functions (Pituch et al., 2013). In this regard, butyrate glycerides, butyrate salts, and different encapsulation techniques have been developed and used in order to ease the handling and prevent the release of butyrate in the upper GIT."

I don't know. Not yet at least.

Forgive me for the long post but I find this subject fascinating and have read a bunch about it.

In order for butyrate/butyric acid to be effective it has to be micoencapsulated/enteric coated. When butyrate is enteric coated it does not have a disagreeable taste plus the coating survives stomach acidity so it is delivered to the small intestine. Butyrate tastes horrible (like vomit) so it has to be encapsulated. Interestingly butyrate, like niacin, activates GPR109a. Many have noted the anti-inflammatory effect and improvement of PD symptoms by taking niacin:

Upregulation of GPR109A in Parkinson’s Disease

"GPR109A (also known as hydroxycarboxylic acid receptor 2 (HCAR2), niacin receptor 1 (NIACR1)."

"The physiological ligand of GPR109A is beta-hydroxy butyrate (BHB)."

journals.plos.org/plosone/a...

And,

GPR109A, a G-protein-coupled receptor, is normally activated by butyrate and niacin.

tenovin-1.com/2017/09/10/gp...

Also,

Niacin and Butyrate: Nutraceuticals Targeting Dysbiosis and Intestinal Permeability in Parkinson's Disease

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Additionally, many scientists think that PD starts in the intestine and then spreads to the brain.

Alpha Synuclein Connects the Gut-Brain Axis in Parkinson’s Disease Patients – A View on Clinical Aspects, Cellular Pathology and Analytical Methodology

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Sodium butyrate causes α-synuclein degradation by an Atg5-dependent and PI3K/Akt/mTOR-related autophagy pathway

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/318...

Posting the following supplement is the result of a random internet search. I have never tried Tributyrin-X but the manufacturers claim....

"PXRcap™ studies show zero capsule leakage at 2 hours of simulated gastric acids."

"And then it dissolves in 2.15 minutes after reaching the intestines… for perfect liquid tributyrin release."

healthygut.com/product/trib...

From looking at Tributyrin they sell 90 softgels @ 500mg for 69.95$. Plus it is a 'known quantity' and is listed on Pubchem:

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/co...

Interestingly, butyric acid/sodium butyrate is fed to both chickens and pigs in an attempt to eliminate the use of dangerous antibiotics to control pathogenic bacteria.

Here is a study about using butyric acid in chicken feed:

Sodium butyrate supplementation for poultry – coated or uncoated?

".....butyric acid can penetrate the lipid membrane and cause cell toxicity inhibits Salmonella and Clostridium perfringens...."

allaboutfeed.net/animal-fee...

.

There is no need to apologize for one of the most awesomely informational replies ever! Somehow I thought I read sodium butyrate was created to survive the gastric acid but I see I was mistaken. $70 for 90 500mg capsules is only about $23 a month I guess. Not bad.

Thank you so much.

Hold on -- Now I'm really confused. One article says that butyric acid degrades a-syn. That's a bad thing, isn't it? In other words, people with PD should NOT take butyric acid (sodium butryrate)? Have I misunderstood?:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/318...

Degrading a-syn sounds good to me.

Berberine and allimed

Thanks LAJ12345! I have ordered some Berberine (and will commence eating more garlic).

Thanks for that, especially the SCD links. Maybe what I've been doing will actually be making a tangible difference to gut as well as how I feel. Best wishes

i ferment my own kimchi and make my own kombucha and further ferment it to make probiotic soda pop. i eatdrink mega fermented probiotic stuff i make at home everyday...

Good luck. Don’t forget diet too cutting out as much carbs like bread, sugar, pasta etc as possible. If you aren’t already.

Yes, I believe the SCD is a key component. I do have a (heaping) teaspoon of honey a day in my tea. That is my only sugar. I had fallen off the diet for a few weeks and still have some tostadas to finish, but I am mostly meat and fish and vegetables... and supplements :(

I was looking at an old post of yours today. Looked like a bunch posts put into one post. So much good information.

Thank you so much.

That’s good. Every time you feed the little critters they breed so not much good poisoning them if you aren’t starving them too. If you let them get out of hand you will feel ill as they die off if you then poison them as their little “bodies” poison your system. There, that is a mental image to put you off!

Thanks for sharing. What is zeolite?

If you search this site for zeolite you will find so many posts from me you would think I owned a zeolite mine. And I go back and forth.

Zeolite Clinoptilolite: Therapeutic Virtues of an Ancient Mineral

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Zeolite Clinoptilolite is Pro-Inflammatory. That's Bad.

healthunlocked.com/cure-par....

Tomorrow I will put together a summary on Zeolite and explain why, even though it can be a superantigen, I started up taking it again. I'm not advising anybody else to use it.

So, bottom line: are you still a believer in zeolite or are you on the fence? Do you feel that it has helped you?

Sodium butyrate, calcium butyrate, magnesium butyrate: does it make a difference. I have high blood pressure and would want to stay away from ay sodium.

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