PART 1 : Reversing Memory Deficits And S... - Cure Parkinson's

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PART 1 : Reversing Memory Deficits And Senior Moments In A 78 Year Old

chartist profile image
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One issue with PD that is not discussed enough is memory issues and memory deficits as part of cognitive decline discussed briefly here:

michaeljfox.org/news/memory...

On that note I would like to discuss a very long time friend who has been having memory lapses and "senior moments", as she refers to them, for about 3 to 4 years. The changes have occurred very slowly, but had become very noticeable to myself and others.

For the last 3 to 4 years a close friend of mine seemed to be having more and more memory lapses where she would lose track of what she was talking about right in the middle of what she was talking to me about. The condition seemed to be worsening with time and my friend went from pausing and regaining her train of thought to being unable to remember what she had been talking about and just saying, I can't remember what I was thinking or going to say! I also noticed that if we watched a movie together and I were to ask her any specifics about the movie a day or two later, she could not remember much if anything about the movie. A couple of other issues she was having were when doing research online, she had to write down what she wanted to search for on google, otherwise, by the time she went to enter her search on google, she would forget what she wanted to search for. This was happening with increasing frequency. Another issue was going into another room to get something only to forget what she was going to get. This is a common issue that you can have and not mean that your memory is declining, but in her case the incidence of these events were increasing to almost always.

This started occurring with greater frequency and I felt bad for her and hesitated to ever mention it to her for the first 2 to 3 years or so because that can be an awkward conversation to have with a close friend or anyone for that matter! By the third year, I finally decided that I better throw caution to the wind because letting a memory deficit go for too long may get to a point of "no return" and I definitely didn't want that for my friend! From what I have seen and learned, I think the best chance of reversing a situation like this is to attack the problem as early as possible, but easier said than done sometimes.

So I did eventually have that conversation with her and it actually went fairly well. I asked her if she realized that her memory had been worsening for quite awhile and she told me, yes, that she realized she was having more and more "senior moments" and in remembering things in general and said she really didn't understand why. I asked her if she would be interested in trying to see if she could improve the situation because once it starts like this, it generally continues to worsen and the available meds are not very effective for the purpose of improving memory longer term! I asked her if her doctor had brought the subject up with her and she told me no, her doctor had never mentioned it to her and she had never mentioned it to her doctor which means she was never diagnosed for a possible cause for her memory issues. I was very clear with her and reminded her that it had taken her over 75 years to get to this point and any improvements would not happen overnight and she should figure on allowing at least a year to see any noticeable or significant benefits at best.

So we met again and I suggested that since I was thinking of multiple supplements for her situation, it might be best to start with one at a time so she would be able to first make sure she could tolerate the supplement and to see if it was helpful for her or not. She had other health issues so I started her with a supplement that might also be helpful for her other health issues as well as memory, had a very good safety profile and was readily available at reasonable cost. I told her that this process may require more than the label suggested dosing in some cases and I asked her if she would be comfortable doing that and she said yes as long as it did not cause her any problems.

So the first supplement I suggested she start with was Amla Extract capsules and I chose this because Amla has shown potential in multiple human studies to have a beneficial effect on many of her existing health issues such as diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high triglycerides and memory issues. I explained that just because it has shown benefit for these common health issues, it may not workout that way for her because we are all different and like the studies, some people got more benefit than others.

Here are some studies regarding Amla and memory, dementia, other health issues or AD :

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/320...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/292...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/310...

worldscientific.com/doi/10....

She started on Amla Extract immediately at the lowest dose used in a couple of studies and I told her that we would start by seeing if she tolerated Amla at that dose and that if she did, she could then consider increasing her dose toward the highest dosing used in the studies that I showed her and everything went well so she went up to the higher dosing and I told her that as soon as she determined that she was tolerating the higher dose well, we could consider adding another supplement to her regimen. She settled on 1,150 mg/day. She reported no problems and we moved on to the next supplement, vitamin D-3. I should mention here that although I had 15 supplements in mind for her particular situation, I was going to try and limit her to about 5 of the 15 possible supplements that I had picked for her to consider as taking 15 supplements everyday can end up with compliance issues and I wanted to try my best to make sure that compliance would not be an issue for her. Another issue that can happen with 15 supplements is a negative interaction between supplements. The advantage of having 15 supplements to choose from is that if one is not tolerated well, you can substitute one of the 10 remaining supplements for the offending one.

She added vitamin D-3 at high dosing of 5,000 iu per day and she gave it a month to make sure she could tolerate that dose, which she did. I told her it would be a good idea to have her doctor check her 25 OH d level regularly as I told her to shoot for the upper half of the reference range ( 30~ 100 ng/ml) and she could adjust her dose as needed in order to get there in conjunction with regular testing by her doctor. Here are a few links suggesting that vitamin D may be useful for memory, AD and dementia :

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/271...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/289...

Next I told her about possibly adding another supplement that has little science behind it in terms of memory improvement, but it has fairly significant anecdotal evidence and that supplement is Lithium Orotate at the very low dose of less than 21 mg / day. Again, a good safety profile at this very low dose range compared to prescription strength Lithium which doesn't have a very good safety profile. After discussing it with her she agreed to start very low dose lithium orotate immediately at 5 mg / day and as with the other supplements, she tolerated it well with no apparent problems and she agreed that if it appeared that she needed to do more to improve her memory, she would consider going as high as 20 mg / day if needed, but she has remained at the 5 mg dose / day.

After about another month of testing to see if she was going to tolerate these three supplements together, she said she was open to the next supplement now as she had not observed any issues with the three supplements she was taking. Based on her input and her desire to get to the next supplement, she started on the popular supplement Vinpocetine which studies suggest may be of benefit for dementia and Alzheimer's Disease and is used for this purpose in other countries. Studies show 30 mg / day as a useful dose and she started at 30 mg / day. She encountered no problems with the addition of Vinpocetine, so she said she was ready to consider the fifth supplement at that time. Here is a link to two studies suggesting that Vinpocetine may be useful for the purpose :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/20...

The following Vinpocetine human study is interesting because to me it highlights that there is a possible "point of no return" in dementia patients as I alluded to earlier in this post :

amhsr.org/articles/effect-o...

So we met again and discussed adding melatonin to the mix at 10 to 20 mg / night one hour before bedtime. Melatonin, in studies, has shown benefit for AD and PD, has a very good safety profile, is readily available and is very reasonably priced. I would like to say that at this point, it was becoming clear that her memory was definitely improving before the addition of melatonin and though she still had these senior moments / memory lapses, they were becoming far and few between. As an example, before she started this regimen, when ever she would visit, it was common for her to have at least 6 of these memory issues where she would just give up trying to remember what she had wanted to say. Now she might have one episode per visit and with a little mental effort, she could get herself back on track and continue the conversation! She started at 10 mg of melatonin per night one hour before bed with the idea that she could go up to 20 mg / night or more if she felt she needed more memory improvement.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/273...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/312...

Although I had told her 5 supplements, I ended up telling her about Lecithin for one of her other health issues which she added to her regimen with no issues and is taking the 6 supplements with no side effects other than improved memory and health! It would have been 5 supplements for the memory issue alone though, so I am not counting lecithin as part of the regimen. While a study or two has suggested that lecithin may offer benefit for dementia, the majority of studies do not, so I consider the evidence for this use of lecithin to be too weak to consider it for this purpose.

About a month later and just over a year since she first started with the Amla Extract, her memory is what I would consider "normal" and better than many at her current age of 78! She is now rid of all of her memory deficits and related issues that were readily apparent before and is very happy with all of the improvements she has seen with the addition of these supplements and I am very happy for her as I have seen enough people succumb to dementia / AD or memory issues who only wanted to use what their doctors gave them for their memory issues!

She has been able to get off of Metformin for her diabetes, off of Lisinopril for her high blood pressure and she was able to avoid statins which her doctor wanted to put her on. Yes, she is quite happy now and said she can clearly see the improvement in her memory!

I went with her a few months ago as she was going to lease a new car and it required her to keep up with the fast talking salesperson who was preparing the lease agreement and trying to sell her upgrade options. They got to a place where the salesman wanted her to agree to a clause in the contract where she would waive her rights to using her own attorney and use an arbitrator if any problems arose with the lease agreement or the car. She asked the salesman who pays for the arbitrator and he said that the dealership would as though that was an expense she wouldn't have to incur. I didn't know why she had asked that question, but it soon became very clear as their conversation progressed. She asked him to remove that clause form the contract and he told her he couldn't do it because it is preprinted in the contract and there was no way to remove it. He then said that all customers sign and agree to that clause. She answered by saying that she was not going to sign her legal rights away to use her attorney and she told him that all he had to do was cross that clause out and they both could then sign as agreement to removal of the clause. He said his manager would not allow him to do that and if she insisted he would not be able to lease the car to her. I guess he thought she was bluffing and would back down, but she just looked at me and asked if I had time to take her to another dealer who had already agreed to lease her the car that she wanted. Before I could even say yes, the salesman said hold on, I think I might know a way to do it and he simply deleted the clause from the lease agreement! This is not something she would likely have been able to do just a year earlier and was just further proof to me that she was definitely back on track with a very improved memory and all that comes with it!

We watched a movie the other night and I had to keep getting up to take care of other things so I was missing a lot of the movie and I had to keep asking her what I missed and her recall was impeccable whereas before she would just say, I don't remember. She was even telling me about movies we had seen months earlier and she was remembering them better than I was! I may have to give this regimen a test myself!

Remember, I am not a doctor and can not give dosage recommendations, I can only relate the dosing my friend used to good effect in her specific situation. I am not recommending that anyone try this regimen, just relating my friends experience with it. It is also important to mention that there are multiple causes for memory issues such as B12 deficiency or multiple forms of dementia, vascular issues, excess ammonia in the brain from liver issues so having a diagnosis by your doctor would be very useful in trying to determine a path forward.

Her 5 supplement memory regimen :

1. Amla Extract : One 575 mg capsule at breakfast and one capsule at dinner for a total of 1,150 mg / day.

2. Vitamin D-3 : One 5,000 iu softgel with breakfast.

3. Lithium Orotate : One 5 mg capsule with breakfast

4. Vinpocetine : One 30 mg capsule with breakfast.

5. Melatonin : One 10 mg capsule an hour or closer to bedtime.

Art

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Edit Supplement Order and Timing on 8/1/2021 in order to cut memory improvement response time in half. :

I just wanted to say that if I ever have another friend that wants to test this 5 supplement regimen, I would suggest changing the order of the supplements and I would start with taking two of the 5 supplements at the same time. The new order would be the following :

1. Vitamin D and Lithium Orotate (LO) started together. 1 to 1 .5 months

2. Vinpocetine once vitamin D and LO are determined to be acceptable. 1 to 1.5 months

3. Melatonin 1 to 1.5 months

4. Amla Extract 1 to 1.5 months

The reason for these changes is because most people are going to be able to tolerate vitamin D and by combining the vitamin D with another supplement, the potential course to improvement is likely shortened by a couple of months at a minimum. My thinking is that this particular order is more likely to offer initial memory improvement sooner than the original order and this may make it easier for a person to stick with the regimen if they start to see improvement earlier. If you were to allow testing of each step for a month to a month and a half and there are 4 steps, potential benefit could be seen in the 4 to 5 month range instead of just under a year.

In my friends case, the Amla Extract seemed likely to be helpful for other health issues that she had and less so for memory, but getting control of those other health issues was more of a priority for her. But for the case of memory only, I think this new order and timing of the supplements would be a more effective as well as faster approach to see if the regimen will work for someone else.

This link will take you to Part 2 of this post :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Art

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63 Replies
rescuema profile image
rescuema

Believe it or not, I had the same problem. For me it was the B1 deficiency and supplementing B1(TTFD) helped tremendously. Antioxidants and D3 certainly would help for anyone deficient. I tried Vinpocetine along with Huperzine A and Ginkgo Biloba but didn't notice noticeable benefit, but that was prior to B1 (deficiency blocking ATP) so it may be worth revisiting. I've been trying Coffee Fruit extract and it also seems to help.

Exercise helps enormously for everyone for myriad reasons, including normalizing important hormones, especially of the adrenals. Zinc (essential cofactor for >300 enzymes for proper gene expression) is tremendously important as well as I've been parroting. Thyroid health is another major contributor to memory issues, and supplementing iodine/selenium may help as well.

I hope your friend continues to get better.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rescuema

Exercise is the one thing that I wish she would do, but I can't bring myself to suggest it to her. It was hard enough having that conversation with her about her memory, so I don't want to push my luck and have her get mad.

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

Yep that's a touchy subject, as most are allergic to exercises. LOL

I've recently tried Qi Gong and found it interesting and very easy. It activates the meridians and a few exercises along with the deep breathing directly benefit the kidneys/adrenals. Apparently at least one person (Bianca Mollé) managed to reverse her Parkinsons practicing Qi Gong (3 hrs a day!).

Try this easy one with her. Many more under Prime and Youtube.

youtube.com/watch?v=1krhDR2...

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to rescuema

I have had a couple of personal coaching sessions with Bianca. I aim for doing three hours a day of Qigong. I'm better than I was three years ago before I started Qigong. I need to correct a misunderstanding: Qigong is not about "exercise" although many Qigong practices look like exercise. The purpose of Qigong is to cultivate the subtle energy referred to as Chi, also spelled Qi. Once you are experiencing strong Chi it is sufficient to sit in Chi meditation and work with the energy directly. By "work with" I mean using the mind to move the Chi to where it is needed. More details about my Qigong experience here: healthunlocked.com/parkinso...

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to park_bear

Wow that's awesome park bear. 3 hrs a day is a serious commitment!

Yes, more of "breath work" and meditative practice, but I include it as a part of "exercise" routines for simplicity since it gets you moving, stretching and most importantly out of your chair. Qi Gong is the only one of the slower meditative practices that I don't mind doing because I do feel better afterwards as to feeling impatient and inflexible as in yoga per se

faridaro profile image
faridaro

Wow, this is very impressive and well researched protocol Art and the best part of it - it's simplicity! Your friend is super fortunate to have you around and so do we to have you generously sharing your knowledge with us on this forum. And it is so comforting to hear that not only her memory loss have been reversed, but she appears to have good judgement and higher order thinking skills to stand up to the pushy salesperson - not an easy task. Thank you for sharing this encouraging experience with us Dr. Art - should say honorary doctor, just for clarification :)

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to faridaro

faridaro,

Thank you very much!

I find it so rewarding now to see my friend more like her old self again! It was like she was slowly drifting away right before our eyes and everyone felt helpless to be able to do anything to help her. What was nice is that she was very open to trying those 5 supplements.

In subsequent conversations with her, it became clear that she was not aware of how bad she had gotten. Yes, she was aware that her memory had declined, but she didn't think it was that bad. Her friends felt differently and knew that she was worse than she thought. We noticed that where she was previously always fully involved in any conversations, she was withdrawing and no longer actively participating the way she used to do in conversation. I remember thinking it is so odd to see her just sitting and listening while everyone else was talking away. Now she is back to her old self and back to being at the heart of these conversations again!

Art

laglag profile image
laglag in reply to chartist

Art, approximately how long do you think it took to add each of the supplements, each supplement and also total time?

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to laglag

It worked out pretty close to what I had told my friend in the beginning, about a year. She took her time and was in no rush, but she was seeing significant improvement within the year, just taking her time to make sure each supplement was compatible with her before adding the next supplement. I think that was a good way to do it because had she started all 6 at once, it probably would have taken longer if she had a problem, with the time wasted trying to figure out which supplements were causing a problem. I would say she gave each supplement about a month and a half to 2 months on average. Total time I would put at about 14 months to regain what she had lost, but the other health effects she got were important also as those allowed her to get off of her prescription meds and avoid taking the statin her doctor wanted to start her on as her cholesterol and triglycerides are in range now as is her blood pressure and she was able to get off of metformin and Lisinopril!

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

“get off of her prescription meds and avoid taking the statin

That’s a huge attributing factor to her recovery. Statin is known to cause brain fog and memory loss.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rescuema

She had not started on it yet because she asked her doctor if she could try a supplement to lower her cholesterol and triglycerides first which she agreed to, but her doctor told her if she didn't get her numbers down by the next visit, she wanted her on a statin drug. Fortunately the supplement worked!

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

Good. I would stay away from the drug as much as possible and try to control the cholesterol through diet, although it requires more dedication and work, including not indulging on pizza too often...

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rescuema

She used lecithin to lower her cholesterol, triglycerides and raise her HDL.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I recommended it to another friend and she had very good results also.

This avoids the pitfalls of statins.

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

I prefer sunflower over soy lecithin. You can even make liposomal vitamin C with it using an ultrasonic jewelry cleanser. The only thing is you might want to be wary of TMAO with lecithin & gut flora.

thedoctorweighsin.com/lecit...

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rescuema

I did try using an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner with sunflower lecithin for liposomal c, but I ran into two problems. One I didn't like the taste, and two, my ultrasonic cleaner was too weak to produce consistent batches so often times they would separate while sitting in the fridge. I tried it with curcumin which I should have known better than to do, but it was quite the mess and curcumin seems to stain anything it comes remotely close to. Not one of my best experiments, to be sure.

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

yes... curcumin stains everything, even through sweat it seems.

laglag profile image
laglag in reply to chartist

That is amazing! Kudos to both of you! Thanks for your reply.

Debbie

park_bear profile image
park_bear

Art - very well done and thank you for posting this!

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to park_bear

Thank you, park_bear, I take that as high praise, coming from you!

Art

MarionP profile image
MarionP

Very nicely done. Definitely saving this for posterity.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to MarionP

Okay, but don't forget you are saving it in case you run into someone who might be able to use it!😀😀😀

Art

MarionP profile image
MarionP in reply to chartist

Oh yeah, I forgot...

GymBag profile image
GymBag

Art, if just about any one else had written this I would be cautioning on the risk of playing doctor ,especially on a person with cognitive problems. I expect that you have completely investigated potential side effects and interaction and the signs of these problems. Sometimes you scare me a bit, but nothing ventured, nothing gained , and you do venture and you do gain. I would like to extend one small caution thou, don,t put too much on your plate at one time and watch the stress level.

best regards

Jim

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to GymBag

Jim,

Thank you for the commentary, your advice is right on target! Were you reading my mind?

Yes, sometimes I scare myself with the thoughts going through my mind when I'm reading studies and letting my mind consider the possibilities! I however, as much as possible, try everything I write about and I have tried all 6 mentioned supplements except one and take most of these on the regular and I did not do that until I had read extensively about them. Even in the case of B-1, I tried it at multiple doses up to 4 grams/day even though I don't, to the best of my knowledge, have PD. I wanted to better understand what I was writing about and at 4 grams per day, I got significant tremors and what some refer to as jittery, so I had to stop at that point. That experience helped clarify for me exactly what people who were trying B-1 and overdosing were describing. I have not tried the lithium orotate though because lithium is known to exacerbate psoriasis at pharmaceutical dosing, so I don't want to take that risk as I am currently well controlled and it has taken me a lot of work and reading to get here, but very low dose lithium orotate has a very good safety profile. As you say, nothing ventured nothing gained. There will always be potential risk with almost any treatment, even exercise if you overdo or tear or pull a muscle or happen to fall.

In the case of these 6 supplements, they all have at least a very good safety profiles at the doses she used. Amla Extract was the highest dose item of the 5 and I have taken Amla for months at much higher dosing, before previously writing about it on this forum, regarding its ability to significantly boost glutathione and significantly reduce oxidative stress in humans. Anyone can be allergic to almost anything except possibly air and water and that is why I found 15 supplements that are likely to be beneficial for memory improvement just in case one or two supplements were not compatible, I would have 10 other options to choose from and I did have my friend go slowly and just one supplement at a time. Granted, she could have probably improved faster had she taken them all at once, but then how would I know which supplement was the culprit if she had a bad reaction?

The same with high dose melatonin, I have tested that at up to 180 mg/ night and have gone for 3 months at 70 mg / day. I'm sure I make mistakes along the way, but what I post on this forum, I research first if at all possible

I want to help, not hurt anyone.

Art

rhyspeace12 profile image
rhyspeace12 in reply to chartist

You may have read before, that we stopped my husband's sundowning with melatonin.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rhyspeace12

Yes and I remember!

Art

gaga1958 profile image
gaga1958

What a great friend you are.

I’ve not read this book but have heard good things about it.

Maybe your friend would be interested in reading and thereby addressing the diet/exercise piece.

But you likely already know this book, have you already read it?

The End of Alzheimer’s

Enhance Cognition and

Reverse Decline

by Dr Dale Bredesen

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to gaga1958

I haven't read the book, but have read some of the info regarding his process. I remember my feeling at the time of hearing about it was that I felt as certain as I could, without experience, that it would work. The downside that I saw was that it requires practitioners who are as well versed as he is and if I remember correctly it takes some testing along the way which will not likely be covered by insurance which could equate to significant out of pocket expense, which is not a problem if money is no object. I would feel much better about it if he were the one I was dealing with. It was a couple of years ago so my memory may not be 100%, but if not, I can always try these 5 supplements and see if it gets better!

Art

rhyspeace12 profile image
rhyspeace12

Wonderful information! I' m very impressed that you were able to help her. I will keep this information if I think I am getting forgetful (or if someone has the nerve to tell me that I am.)

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rhyspeace12

I hope you never have to use it!

Art

Jennyjenny2 profile image
Jennyjenny2

I can’t thank you enough, Art, for this very timely post.

I have been concerned lately with my husband’s minor cognitive decline. It has been overwhelming for me as I didn’t know where to start. Now I do!

You are appreciated by so many on this forum. The time and effort you put into everything you do is amazing! Take care 😇

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2

Jenny,

I hope it helps your husband as well or better than it helped my friend!

Art

Jennyjenny2 profile image
Jennyjenny2 in reply to chartist

Thank you, dear friend 💜

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Jennyjenny2

You're welcome Jenny!

Art

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

You must be the most thorough person who walks the earth.

I have a suggestion for how she could take 15 supplements.

Pile them in the center of the plate, pour on a couple ounces a catch-up and dig in. :)

marc

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to MBAnderson

Marc, you are the only person I know who can actually take so many pills that way! Amazing!

Art

Despe profile image
Despe

Art,

As usual, you are one of a kind! Yes, you are very appreciated by so many of us, with me on top of the list. :)

Causes of memory problems: Statins: Husband took them for 4-5 years.

Carotid Artery Stenosis: Husband had it for years and had the stent last year. Stenosis was over 99% and we suspect statins and baby aspirin he was on prevented a stroke. Internist's records indicate: mild cognitive impairment due to lack of oxygen in the brain.

Total thyroidectomy: Husband had it in 2010. Pharmaceuticals didn't really work the way they should have, so hubby started WP Thyroid and Nature Throid (they were recalled just a few days ago) and is now taking Armour Thyroid. They do work a lot better, based on symptoms and tests.

He has been taking all the supplements your friend is on now. I don't see any decline but he is not as sharp as he used to be. Of course, PD is a major factor to memory problems!

Some of the causes of cognitive decline cannot be overcome, my opinion.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Despe

Thank you, Despe!

Your husband has a lot of health issues going all at the same time! Seems like treating each one or remnants of issues past, one at a time may be needed. Keep in mind that if he is on the same dosing as my friend, there was room to increase some of them.

Yes, I agree, there are some memory issues that may not be repairable.

Art

Despe profile image
Despe in reply to chartist

Art, he is on AMLA 1,000mg, Vit D 10,000IU, and Lithium Orotate 5mg daily. I was thinking about increasing Lithium Orotate to 10mg. The max Melatonin he can take is 3mg. In addition, he takes 3g or more of Vitamin C as it clears arteries plaque.

Is your friend going to start fish oil? Dr. Mischley recommended Vitamin D, Lithium Orotate, Fish Oil, Turmeric, and Melatonin to my husband.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Despe

No fish oil at this time, but always a consideration because fish oil is a potent antiinflammatory. All of her recommendations seem good. Myself I can't take turmeric, but it has many good effects in humans. For now she is very good and I don't want to do or say anything to distract her from where she is. If she ends up with other problems that is definitely one to consider!

Art

Burlingtongal profile image
Burlingtongal

Hi Art,

I can't tell you how providential your post is to me. I was diagnosed with PD (all non motor symptoms) in 2016. I would say 2 years into the diagnosis I started having memory problems. Neuro put me on Exelon, 1.5mg twice a day and it helped. Not long after my PC Dr. increased my statin drug to 40 mg a day (pravastatin).

I would say for the last 4-5 months I've begun to "lose my words" in the middle of a conversation. I can't remember the name of a particular thing. I stop, close my eyes and tell whoever I'm speaking with to " hold on, it will come" and it doesn't Also, I can lose my train of thought in the middle of a conversation. I sit there looking dumb, not knowing what I was talking to this person about. This is so upsetting! It is starting to make me very anxious.

I have been taking 2000 mg of B1 for about a year and also take 5 mg of Melatonin for Rem behavior order.

I will try your suggestions. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Thanks again

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Burlingtongal

Wow, you sound very similar to how my friend was! Good luck and please keep us posted!

Art

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Burlingtongal

Burlingtongal,

I forgot to mention a couple of things about your use of a statin drug. One, it is known to create memory loss, not just the often reported muscle and joint pain as well as tendon and ligament damage. Two, lecithin can lower total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, VLDL cholesterol, triglycerides as well as raise HDL (the good cholesterol) with none of those side effects which can be severe. You might ask your doctor if he/she would let you test lecithin for two months as a possible replacement because of your memory issues which could potentially be related to your statin intake.

Here are some links which you may find useful and can possibly show to your doctor so he can consider the change over to lecithin for a test. The following link discusses the memory loss issue with statins :

healthline.com/health/high-...

The following link discusses tendon and ligament damage associated with statins :

caringmedical.com/prolother...

The following link discusses muscle pain associated with statin use :

mayoclinic.org/diseases-con....

As you can see it would be helpful to avoid these negative statin effects, especially for PWP!

This next link describes how lecithin can lower LDL cholesterol, VLDL cholesterol, total cholesterol, while raising HDL cholesterol :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

This next study shows that lecithin lowers triglycerides and offers many more health benefits:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Admittedly, when I have used lecithin, I have used much higher dosing than in studies because I am trying to get a rapid decline in the bad lipid players and then I bring the dose down to a maintenance dose such as used in the studies, but low and slow works fine too!

I'm sorry for not mentioning this to you yesterday, but I had friends over for a birthday party and was pressed for time.

Art

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

Here is some good info about vinpocetine. I like examine.com. I think they're competent.

examine.com/supplements/vin...

chartist profile image
chartist

Marc,

Good article on vinpocetine and its effects. I disagree with some points in the article such as them saying that Alpha GPC has more evidence for memory improvement, it doesn't. There seems to be a lack of human studies for memory with Alpha GPC. I couldn't find the date of the article, but it seems to be a bit dated as vinpocetine studies on memory are much more abundant than studies for Alpha GPC and memory.

They are correct about CDP-Choline/Citicoline and that is on my list of backup memory supplements which grows as studies reveal more.

Art

rescuema profile image
rescuema in reply to chartist

Didn't notice anything with Alpha GPC nor with Citicoline... may work for others, just not in my case.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to rescuema

Good to know!

Art

Wonky-Bride profile image
Wonky-Bride

She is blessed to have you looking out for her Art - what a story!

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Wonky-Bride

Thank you , Wonky-Bride!

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

I just realized that all 5 of these supplements have been discussed on HU fairly regularly for other health issues suggesting that their use is likely to offer other health benefits beyond just memory which is exactly what my friend saw also!

Art

Gioc profile image
Gioc

thanks Art, very well done and very helpful as always.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to Gioc

Thank you, Gio!

Art

Despe profile image
Despe

Art,

I got on line to purchase Vinpocetine, but I couldn't find it on Amazon. I really don't know why I can't find it anywhere.

chartist profile image
chartist

Swanson, Vitacost, iHerb and Lucky Vitamins have it.

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

I just wanted to give an update on my friend(1) on the 5 supplement regimen to try and improve her memory. This past Friday she came to visit and we watched a movie in the evening. The next day, we were talking with another friend(2) and friend1 told the story of the movie to friend2 in great detail! To say I was impressed would be an understatement. She told the story in such detail, I couldn't believe this was the same person from a year ago who couldn't remember just a short snippet of the movie when I had gone to the bathroom and asked her what I had missed.

When friend2 wasn't around, I told friend1, you realize you couldn't have done that just 1 year ago don't you? She looked at me and smiled and then she said, yes, I know and I like it ! Then she said something that surprised me. She said she realized that back then she couldn't remember, but in her mind she had rationalized that she couldn't remember because she wasn't interested in the movie. I imagine this is a coping mechanism to help deal with memory issues because the alternative reason is too hard to face head on and admit to yourself.

She also clarified for me what she meant when she had to write things down before she did a google search of anything on her phone. She said that whenever she thought of something she wanted to google search, she had to write it down right away or by the time she got her phone and got to google, she had already forgotten what she was going to search for! Now she says she never has to write things down anymore! Not scientific at all, but imo her memory is now like that of a healthy younger person and I have known her for a very long time. I am very happy for my friend! It took a bit over a year, but the difference is like night and day!

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

Just a quick update on my friend. She has increased her melatonin dose to 20 mg/night, up from 10 mg/night. She has heard me talking about melatonin for Covid-19 to other friends and I think Covid-19 may be why she decided to increase her dose, but if she were to get Covid-19, I would definitely have a discussion with her on the subject very quickly.

Art

MBAnderson profile image
MBAnderson

I just reread this post and had forgotten how amazing it is.

chartist profile image
chartist in reply to MBAnderson

Marc,

The quicker you forget it, the more you need it???😖😖😖

My friend seems to be getting happier by the month!

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

I saw my friend over the Thanksgiving holiday and she told me that she has now noted a slight improvement in her vision, but she did not elaborate other than to say that she could now see things that she previously could not, without glasses.

It is very nice when instead of unwanted side effects from any treatment, a person gets extra health benefits that were not planned on! Her particular supplement regimen, imo, certainly has potential to offer other health benefits, but actually getting an extra benefit is really nice!

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

To update this post as of this week since it has been over 3 months since the last update, I saw my friend this week and am happy to report that the results are so far durable and lasting.

She has not regressed at all and seems fairly sharp to me. She definitely has not lost any of the memory improvement and in fact may be slightly more improved since last Thanksgiving. Well that's the update and bottom line is that nobody who would meet my friend today would ever guess that she was having significant memory issues just 2 years ago!

Art

Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Awesome post Art!

chartist profile image
chartist

I just wanted to say that if I ever had another friend that wanted to test this 5 supplement regimen, I would change the order of the supplements and I would start with two of the 5 supplements at the same time. The new order would be the following :

1. Vitamin D and Lithium Orotate (LO) started together.

2. Vinpocetine once vitamin D and LO are determined to be acceptable.

3. Melatonin

4. Amla Extract

The reason for these changes is because most people are going to be able to tolerate vitamin D and by combining the vitamin D with another supplement, the potential course to improvement is likely shortened by a couple of months at a minimum. My thinking is that this particular order is more likely to offer initial memory improvement sooner than the original order and this may make it easier for a person to stick with the regimen if they start to see improvement earlier. If you were to allow testing of each step for a month to a month and a half and there are 4 steps, potential benefit could be seen in the 4 to 5 month range instead of just under a year.

In my friends case, the Amla Extract seemed likely to be helpful for other health issues that she had and less so for memory, but getting control of those other health issues was more of a priority for her. But for the case of memory only, I think this new order and timing of the supplements would be a more effective as well as timely approach to see if the regimen will work for someone else.

Art

chartist profile image
chartist

This is a copy and paste of a post by forum member "eschneid" commenting on part of this regimen and my reply:

eschneid profile imageeschneid in reply to chartist

6 hours ago

Art,

I've been taking 5 mg Lithium Oratate since the post about your 78 year old friend and I believe it has helped me with Grumpy's problem of recalling forgotten words while speaking. Also, Grumpy, I just started taking 100 mg of Fisetin this week, too early to tell.

Eric

Last edited by eschneid

Report

chartist profile imagechartist in reply to eschneid

3 hours ago

eschneid,

Thank you very much for the feedback! It is good to hear that one of the supplements, lithium orotate, has helped you improve your word recall! All of the 5 supplements are proven useful for helping improve memory in people and if one of the five supplements does not give complete recovery, you can add the other four as needed until you reach a satisfactory level of improvement.

I'm going to copy your post and add it to the original thread on memory improvement so more members might see it.

Art

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