If you are Akinetic-rigidity Dominant PD then be aware of medications and supplements increasing Acetylcholine

[Kia17]

⁉️Today I started taking celery seed extract and experienced an unprecedented dystonia. I searched and noticed;

“Celery is a cholinesterase inhibitor. It inhibits the acetylcholinesterase enzyme from breaking down acetylcholine, thereby increasing both the level and duration of action of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.

It proved me again my theory that Choline , Vinpocetine , Celery seed extract or any supplements that increases Acetylcholine could exacerbate Rigidity- dominat PD symptoms but helps others like tremor-dominant PwPD.

📍The effect of vitamins on the synthesis of acetylcholine was investigated. 2. Vitamin A and K decreased the synthesis of acetylcholine in low and increasing concentrations. Vitamin D did not modify the synthesis in low concentrations and decreased it in higher ones. Vitamin B1 slightly increased the synthesis of acetylcholine in low concentrations and decreased it in higher ones. 3. Riboflavin, nicotinic acid, nicotinamide, calcium pantothenate, p-amino benzoic acid, pyridoxine, and vitamin C did not modify the synthesis in low concentrations and increased it in higher ones. 4. Vitamin E increased the synthesis in low and increasing concentrations.

The article can be purchased here;

journals.sagepub.com/doi/ab...

How Many Types of Dystonia? Pathophysiological Considerations

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

[Lana666]

Kia17, I love your posts, except few recent suggesting that some of my favorite supplements may contribute to dystonia. Kidding, thank you for sharing this info. I have really violent bursts of full body dystonia: legs, arms, neck. The obvious triggers I was able to notice so far are lack of sleep and carbs. Few times I had bad episodes next morning after Bikram yoga - probably neurotransmitter and salt balance was disrupted due to extensive sweating. I've been taking Choline , Vinpocetine and recently added Celery seed extract. Did not found obvious correlation -my dystonia comes and goes. There are so many supplements and life style variables, that I did not see clear relations with these 3 supplements. Perhaps, I should try them in a mode of adding one variable at a time. However, based on your post, the effect may be dose dependent and there also could be a synergetic result when you take few of them together. Not easy to design an approach, any suggestions?

[Kia17 in reply to Lana666]

Hi Lana

Thanks for your input.I guess the Rigidity dominat PwPd are more susceptible for their dystonia getting worse by Acetylcholine supplements than tremor-dominant( according to my personal experience and findings). We must understand that we are talking about the most sophisticated gadget on earth( the human brain) a complex system which totally has different qualities even in identical twins.

I think if the balance between DA and ACh in the basal ganglia disturbed we get symptoms depends upon the affected neurotransmitters.

Ps: I have focal dystonia and it only affects my left toes.

On the days I take Fish (except salmon) , eggs or any foods with high amount of Choline my dystonia become worse.

[Parkie-]

Hello Kia

Thank you for your recent posts on dystonia and akinetic-rigid pd.

Choline was the first supplement I took after my pd diagnosis in 2017. It had a very negative effect on mood but I had not paid attention to dystonia at the time because my leg dragging and my missing arm swing were my main symptoms.

Please do keep us posted on your findings regarding these subjects!

Kind regards

[Farooqji]

Good analysis Kia. Thanks a lot

[akgirlsrock]

I never had Dystonia until December 2018 and up to now, started meds 2016 had tremor leg foot drag then left foot toe walking only only on left side, cardopa/levadopa took for 4 months and finally foot drop down but Dyskinesia in beginning if to much cardopa/levadopa. Kinda have that under control, but Dystonia hits me at night sometimes lately less because of botox in April helps with pain. Only get in halves and feet. Why is that do yo know. My right leg will give out, when I'm low on dopamine I'm guessing, but I think it's something to do with carpal tunnel since my hand feels weak also, but lately just leg, I can feel it coming on with exercise. I'm seeing physical therapist this week. Maybe they will know. I took 1 Alpha lipoic acid does that stop choline?

[akgirlsrock]

Is there a test for the choline. What do we eat. We need protein, I ate a burger for lunch and one at 6:30 pm. Is eating to late a problem, my last 225/100 at 5:40 pm. since my ET 2@50/200 kick in slowly took at 9:30 pm and it's 11 pm and still have temors, protein definitely slows it down. Are you sure it's not lack of dopamine? Thank you so much for your info. MARIA

[Kia17 in reply to akgirlsrock]

Hi Maria

As far as I know we need to have a balance between Dopamine production and Acetylcholine for an optimal quality of life (in my opinion).

[Kia17]

⁉️Don't you think its strange that internet is full of online shops selling herbal and supplements, remedies to increase Dopamine and Acetylcholine but there is NONE to decrease Acetylcholine activities .Please note I said Supplements not medications. If you find one please let me know.

[Kia17]

The Effect of Acetylcholine on Muscle

Acetylcholine’s Effect On The Muscle Membrane

The influx of sodium depolarizes the muscle cell in the vicinity of the motor endplate. Depolarization means the difference in charge between the inside and outside of the muscle is reduced. A different type of sodium channel, which is activated in response to depolarization, lets more sodium in and the wave of excitation spreads throughout the muscle cell. This leads to the release of calcium ions from storage sites inside the muscle cell. The calcium ions initiate a series of biochemical events involving troponin, tropomyosin and myosin that cause the muscle to contract.

livestrong.com/article/3734...

[Kia17]

"In parkinsonism, there is imbalance between levels of acetylcholine and dopamine in the brain, involving both increased levels of acetylcholine and degeneration of dopaminergic pathways (nigrostriatal pathway). Thus, in parkinsonism there is decreased level of dopaminergic activity. One method of balancing the neurotransmitters is through blocking central cholinergic activity using muscarinic receptor antagonists."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musca...

[Parkie- in reply to Kia17]

Hello Kia

Very interesting. Have you tried that yourself? : "One method of balancing the neurotransmitters is through blocking central cholinergic activity using muscarinic receptor antagonists."

Thank you

[Kia17 in reply to Parkie-]

Hi Parkie-

I am doing some research on this subject. Simply blocking central cholinergic activities has serious consequences interms of cognition , memory and dozens of other issues.

[Kia17]

📍What happens if acetylcholinesterase is inhibited?

youtu.be/ReMecYLUa0s(Not working as expected?)