AGE CAMPAIGN UPDATE: A BIG THANK YOU.

[IannodaTruffe]

Hi all you runners and thank you so much for your LIKES and responses to my post about returning my admin badge. (If you don’t know what I am talking about then please click here and take a look healthunlocked.com/couchto5.... )

As of this morning I have had over 370 LIKES and dozens of replies to the three posts on C25k, Bridge and Marathon forums. My intention had been to wait until next week before directing HealthUnlocked to the posts and responses, but I see no point delaying…….this response is impressive and hopefully persuasive, so I will be contacting HU this morning.

What shines out from the responses is the recurrent theme of how safe, well ordered and well behaved our forums are, which is down to the work of all of the members of the admin team (and all of you) who over the years have maintained the ethos of being accepting, non judgemental and supportive which we all value as being almost unique in the world of modern social media. It was also pointed out that this environment is ideal for all teenagers and I would support a reduction in lower age limit to 13, if it became possible, although it would only be wise to poll the membership on this before implementation.

To date nobody has commented that they would like the lower age limit to remain at 18.

The idea of forum by forum age limits is popular and would be relatively easy to implement (I imagine). While this could get around our issues on these forums, it might not eradicate the lack of access to support from some of the other HU forums which under 18s may wish to access. Alongside this I also realise that for some communities, the 18 age limit may be far more appropriate than 16. An ideal result would be to ask each HU community to actively consider and decide its own lower age limit, according to their content and subject matter and membership preference.

In my communication to HU I will ask them to read the post linked to above and the responses and will stress the points that have been made and ask them to reconsider their stance. I will ask them to give me detailed reasons why they feel unable to change the age limit, if that is the initial outcome, so that I can approach the ICO to see if they can help HU to minimise the unintended consequence of their Code.

In my previous experience of trying to produce a poster/leaflet advertising C25k (Guilty, m’lud) I know that these issues are rarely considered high priority by lumbering bureaucracies and it can very much feel like repeatedly impacting the uppermost part of one’s anatomy against a vertical masonry structure.

I have time. I have patience. I do however worry about our young and impressionable teenagers who could be changing the future course of their lives if they were given opportunities which this Children's Code is so lamentably denying them.

If there is anybody with a legal background out there, who would be willing to offer free advice, should it be necessary………..don’t worry, I am not intending to glue myself to the door of the ICO………..I would love to hear from you.

The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed that my C25k Administrator badge has been removed and replaced by a Mentor badge. So I am still part of the admin team……….you can’t get rid of me that easily.

At some point I will have to get away from my computer………...that yellow Alert icon is driving me mad.

I will keep you posted.

[Hidden]

I am so pleased you are still a part of the team. Your advice and guidance was absolutely invaluable to help get me through the programme and turn my life around.

A huge thank you from me to yourself and all the forum leadership team and everyone who contributes with their posts and supportive advice.

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Alan.

I meant to say above that I have attempted to LIKE every reply, although I only had time to reply to a few.

The admin team, like you, know the empowering value of little old C25k to totally transform people's lives and it is enthusiasm for that that makes us want to help as many as possible to succeed.

It is a joy and a privilege.

[nowster Graduate]

It's been twelve years since I ran an ISP. Even though things were simpler then, problems like this came up fairly often.

At one point we provided an internet service for schools, and were required to provide a walled garden service which blocked certain websites. Internally, the censoring server was named "little hat", after this Dilbert cartoon: dilbert.com/strip/1996-01-23

Age based limitations on websites work on a trust basis anyway.

It's impossible to police unless you're prepared to invest in background checking. Even payment type verification means nothing if a kid has access to their parent's credit cards. I still remember my Dad's old Barclaycard number, forty years on!

You can't use NI numbers as they're issued at age 16, and there's no (legal) way of checking them for that purpose. Credit checks for identity fail, as the recent government online ID scheme showed: some people (eg. one of my cousins) can go through their entire working life without accumulating any credit history.

If an underage user signs up and lies about their age, there's practically nothing an online service can do to prevent it, even if the service is liable if something goes wrong.

I for one welcome our younger members. This is the safest place I've seen online.

PS. I wonder if HU realise that they can be held liable as publishers of libel/slander if someone here was to write defamatory statements about a person or business.

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to nowster]

Without a foolproof age verification system then all the blocks put in the way of "children" accessing sites deemed inappropriate for them are futile. Kids will find a way round it.

My issue was that I was faced, as an admin, with having to ask an admirable young man to leave our site, because he was deemed to be too young. The community membership seems to overwhelmingly agree that, in the case of our forums, there is nothing inherently dangerous in the environment and content for young people to encounter.......the opposite in fact. My aim is that no other admin should be put in that invidious position in respect of a wholly inappropriate age restriction.

I believe that HU have taken the easy route, because they are only too aware of the legal implications, so that they do not have to be at risk of being liable to the sanctions of the Code, in the unlikely event they are breached. I do not believe that this is the "right" route and could conceivably cause more harm than good. But of course nobody will ever know that. Because of this, I suspect that I am going to have to try to get the ICO to advise HU on how to correct this absurd injustice.

We had noted on the admin forum that all the HU forums had displayed a decline in activity over the last couple of months, but could not account for it. Perhaps it was due to the raised age limit, restricting 16-18 year olds from browsing the HU sites, where they can find unbiased information and supportive advice on so many health related topics well beyond our running and fitness forums.

Thanks for your support.

[nowster Graduate]

And another legal wrinkle... the forum is hosted using Amazon servers, in Dublin. Does Irish law also apply?

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to nowster]

I couldn't possibly say..........which is why I have asked for someone with legal experience to be on call for advice.

Ultimately this will, hopefully, be resolved by common sense and good judgement, not the law.

[Fionamags Graduate in reply to IannodaTruffe]

GDPR legislation still applies in the UK. I do health research, which has very stringent data protection rules. We are allowed to store data on Azure-based platforms online as the data is always stored securely within Europe. I know this is a bit of a tangent but this probs suggests that a server in Dublin is fine?

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to Fionamags]

All beyond my pay grade, but thanks.

Would you mind being PM'd to help clarify any minor legal queries?

[Fionamags Graduate in reply to IannodaTruffe]

I'm not a lawyer but a social scientist/researcher. Just know about data because of my work. But if I can help in any way I'd be happy to.

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to Fionamags]

I will try not to get bogged down in specifics, but stick to generalities, so if you would be happy for me to run general queries past you, it could be very useful.

[Tzushka Graduate]

So glad you stayed on, IannodaTruffe, you’re one of the reliable pieces of vertical masonry upholding us!

(If you cannot say “repeatedly impacting the uppermost part of one’s anatomy against a vertical masonry structure” in one breath, you’re either running too fast, or banging your head to the wall too quickly.)

[IannodaTruffe Mentor in reply to Tzushka]

What a mantra!!!

Yes, I must keep my blood pressure down.

Thank you.