Consolidation 9 - 5km and Ammonia Smells (!)

[Kish247]

Did another 5km yesterday and a slight improvement on my time which i'm pleased about - 8'51" so I just need to keep it up to keep improving. The air was very cold which meant my warm up walk was a bit longer than the usual 3 minutes.

I'll keep this clean but after my run and as soon as I went inside, I smelt a smell I have came across a couple of times during the C25K programme and finally decided to do some googling and I seem to have found the answer in the link below which I found interesting!

"This is an interesting observation and question. I usually hear of runners noticing an ammonia smell after running, but that could be sensed as metallic smell or taste too. Usually this means that the body is burning protein for fuel during your runs. If the body is short of glucose for muscle fuel, it reverts to protein metabolism"

"Either a low carbohydrate reserve in the muscles or a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet is the usual culprit for burning protein during exercise resulting in the ammonia odor in your sweat."

"The simple cure is to increase the carbohydrate in your diet a bit and maybe drink a little more water during the day to dilute the ammonia"

runnersworld.com/health-inj...

[Plattszo Graduate]

Very interesting- thanks for sharing!

[nowster Graduate]

Burning protein is not good. Are you getting a good balance of carbohydrates and fats in your diet too?

[Kish247 Graduate in reply to nowster]

To be honest, I've had an absolutely shocking week of poor eating with takeaways and party type food being consumed in the masses.

What would be a good suggestion for a meal the night before an early run? I'm thinking Chilli on Bakes Potato?

[nowster Graduate in reply to Kish247]

Normal diet, really. The energy requirements for a 5km run are only the equivalent of about half a dozen digestive biscuits.

Make sure you're sufficiently hydrated the day before and you should be OK.

[Kish247 Graduate in reply to nowster]

Cool, thanks. I've had a stinker of bad eating recently but i've been good for the last 2 days and have nearly finished 3L water today so should be nicely hydrated for tomorrow.

[TheAwfulToad]

>> If the body is short of glucose for muscle fuel, it reverts to protein metabolism.

No. You get a lot of silly nonsense on the Internet. I googled this one and it seems to be everywhere.

"Protein metabolism" is a rather inaccurate phrase. There isn't really any such thing. It's true that your body can burn surplus amino acids for energy (some from your diet, and some from cellular reconstruction processes). But your body's two primary power sources are glucose and fat. When blood glucose is inadequate for muscle performance (which is not quite the same thing as low glucose availability) then your muscles may start burning ketones or fatty acids as well as glucose. Your body is incredibly bad at using amino acids for fuel - they have to be converted either to glucose or ketones, and unlike carnivores, humans don't have a high-power pathway for achieving that.

There's also no such thing as a "high-protein low-carbohydrate" diet. If you eat nothing but protein, without adequate fats or carbs, you'll feel absolutely terrible. You could potentially die. As mentioned, humans are just not good at using amino acids for fuel. However, if you consume protein in amounts far above your actual needs, then your body will attempt to get rid of it: amino acids are unique in that (unlike glucose and fat) your body can literally just excrete them if it doesn't need them. And that may indeed involve excretion of ammonia in your sweat.

[nowster Graduate in reply to TheAwfulToad]

Thanks for that. Burning protein is pretty much a last resort when other reserves have been exhausted.

[Kish247 Graduate in reply to nowster]

Believe me when I say this, I have PLENTY of fat to burn.

[klick Graduate]

Congrats for your run

Now about the following :

The simple cure is to increase the carbohydrate in your diet a bit and maybe drink a little more water during the day to dilute the ammonia"

This looks a bit silly to me

First point, burning proteins, means your body feel really bad, and that you can't run at all as feeling support. Proteins burns is mostly an emmergency life support thing.

2nd point, even if it was proteins being burnt, it means that you weren't burning fat, and your aerobic metabolism is very bad, in one word, don't eat more carbs, run slower, to train again your body to use fats, allowing you to run without eating for quite a while.

If you need to eat after 30 mns, that's the sign that you are either running too fast, or your fat burning abilities are very poor.

[Kish247 Graduate in reply to klick]

I don't think I could run slower if I tried however this was the second 5km I've done (With the first one being nearly a week prior) so perhaps my body wasn't prepared for the additional 9 minutes (which is 1km more than it's used to)

I'm hoping it's nothing too serious as I dont get it after each run, this was probably the 3rd or 4th time I noticed it during the C25K/my 9 consolidation runs - should I speak to my GP?

When you talk about eating within 30 minutes, are you saying that either 1, I shouldn't need to eat within the first 30 minutes finishing a run? or 2, I should eat when I finish a run but shouldn't be needing to eat again within 30 minutes after that?

[klick Graduate in reply to Kish247]

Hi Kish247,

commenting with my own story, hope you can relate it to yours

- When I started running, my fastest spped was at best the speed of someone in a good shape walking.

- As I wanted to run, I was pushing indeed, and I got some very good progress.

- But, as I was running faster, always pushing, I started to suffer injuries (tendinitis, etc), and had to slow down. Progress was lost surprisingly fast.

- I was indeed not doing anything like slow easy run, but I was feeling fine, as I was fully enjoying the journey and seeing progress, fighting with myself all the time.

- after covid19 confinment, I lost a lot, but was able to heal some long standing injuries with the forced break, and decided to go slow for once (now that I built some speed after 2 years ). The goal was to stay under 140hr for a few runs. under 2 weeks, I saw my speed increasing at this intensity, feeling no injuries, and craving for more.

- I had my BEST progress, either in distance, duration, speed this summer, with ONLY slow running. I was jumping from a 12k max distance, to 34km, feeling GREAT. I ran complex trails, with interesting D+ ratios. I also did a fun test run on my fast run circuit -> cutting 2.5 minutes of my 5k time !

If I had to redo the 2 years progress, I'd start to walk/run at 140HR, until I built a strong aerobic capacity. I would have avoided injuries, and I would be a faster runner now.

Added to this, my runs would be : run/eat/run/eat/run/eat, my running bag was full of carbs. Now I eat less, feel less tired, and have the feeling I can run forever, giving me the idea of some ultra, even if I'm still too slow for it.

so what you describe, not being able to run slower, tell me that maybe our story is a bit the same

hope that this message wasn't too boring

enjoy the runs !