My first Hill Sprints (yippee!) and first metatarsalgia (boohoo)

[CBDB]

Well this morning was the first day of my 5th and last week of my 5 week 10k consolidation plan, put together by moi! (info here healthunlocked.com/bridgeto... )

And on my plan was a first ever Hill Sprint run for me. After reading up on how to do Hill Sprints correctly (I know I know, but I am the sort of person that reads every page of the manual and tells others to RTFM ), and after spending an evening choosing which audio guided run I would download, I was ready to set off.

The timing was perfect, as I am beginning to have a little niggle in the balls of my right foot, so a shorter and a bit more intensive run, with me being much a shorter duration on my feet, was welcome.

The pain in the ball of the foot is more annoying than painful, but it is a slightly burning sensation between and in the area of the 3rd and 4th toe so after looking into it, I have a suspicion that it is the early warning bells of metatarsalgia and more specifically Morton's neuroma. It makes sense, as I do have a feeling that my new shoes don't have an as big toe box as my old ones and I am still a bit of a newbie. And then of course with my two ‘short’ runs and one long run per week, I’m quite a considerable number of hours per week on my feet, clocking up a minimum of 4 —5 hours.

And of course I’ve been doing it for 1000km! Yes, Runkeeper, which I have been using since graduating from C25k, has celebrated my 1kk milestone! So some niggles along the way of shaping and strengthening my body into one of a 10k runner is probably normal.

From what I read Morton’s Neuroma is an annoying condition as it is permanent (although the pain might go away). Having looked around various running websites, there is still a lot I can do, from spreading my toes, getting Yoga-Toe separators that can be worn in shoes, getting shoes with larger toe boxes, and various exercises from walking on toes, heels and scrunching up towels via your toes. And although I haven’t come across it when reading runner’s websites, it sounds like toe-shoes might be a good thing for addressing this. Hmmm 🤔 … I did wonder if my future holds another C25k journey, this time getting used to toe shoes. But I just love having reached 10k at the moment, so can’t quite give that up yet. But I might just have to limit my distances for a bit.

Also if I attend to it now with switching shoes, massage and exercises, I’m thinking I should be ok. I’ve read quite a few reviews of runners with the same symptoms, and how just a change of shoes, or exercises, or simply massage does its wonders and the pain never re-occurs. So here’s hoping.

But for today, a short 20 min Hill Sprints run was just the right thing. And those short sprints were really energising!

I chose NRC’s “Runner Up” with Coach Blue Benadum. Heading out the door this morning, my hubby wished me luck, and I said casually that it was just 3 cycles of intervals, so couldn’t be too bad. But of course I had completely misread and it ended up being 5 cycles of two different uphill sprints. Each cycle had two uphill sprints, one 15 sec at 10/10 effort, one 45 seconds with 6/10 effort. Inbetween these sprints were either a 45 sec or a 75 sec recovery down the hill. Repeat 5 times and celebrate!

It was actually really fun, as I usually don’t run all out, so knowing that you only do 15 seconds but as fast as you can go (10/10) it is really a unique experience for me.

I also was reminded about my posture, little steps as I run up, and passed 2 horse-riders and one dog-walker who all laughed with me as I started another uphill run. And also unique since a long time is that my knees felt strong all the way through, thanks to squats, gluten-free diet, yoga, and Pilates.

So big success for knees, stamina and speed, even though I need to attend to my feet next.

In my searches around hill sprints I also found another series of Guardian Running podcasts, of which one of them is about hill sprints. So if worse comes to worse with my foot, which I’m sure it won’t, or if I need to minimise the time on my feet, I might be able to still do the hill sprint running. So it’s really good to have added these to my repertoire.

Some links from my searches

• NHS Advice for Metatarsalgia nhs.uk/conditions/foot-pain...

• NHS Advice for Morton's neuroma nhs.uk/conditions/mortons-n...

NRC “Runner Up” Audio-Guided Run on Nike Run Club

• nikerunning.app.link/y0csp0...

Guardian Running podcasts from 2013

• Beginner - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...

• Advanced - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...

• Marathon - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...

I have not tried any of those Guardian podcasts but the fourth episode is suggested to be a hill sprint audio coached run!

So much more to explore and experience!

Stay pain and niggle-free everyone !

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate]

Well! I think you are doing alll you can to minimise pain 😀hill sprints really are fun, exhilarating! I’d forgotten, but they are in my new plan starting Saturday if I can only shift this cold

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to SueAppleRun]

Yeah, the cold… I think I’m fortunate that I like the cold so much more than heat. So I still think it as preferable.

Ooohhh new plan! Sounds intriguing! Will look forward to reading!

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate in reply to CBDB]

Cold as in sore throat, snotty nose, aches and pains and no energy, I love running in the cold because i get really warmed up inside. The friend we’ve been running with and I haven’t met to run since beginning of October because of covid at work and she can’t risk being around me so we haven’t seen each other for a month. Saturday we start a new plan, she’s nearly finished c25k and with warm up walks and coool down she’s comfortably covering 5k so 5k possibly hedging Saturday, then we plan a shorter run each eeek and after her consolidation increase by 5minutes a week for our longer run, now she is running longer times her pace has dropped back to close to mine. It’ll be good to run together again, Willow will join some of it too

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to SueAppleRun]

🤣🤣that cold! Ohh sorry! Sending you big, huge, warm get well wishes! (My secret recipe for colds is freshly made lemon tee with honey, fresh ginger and … yup … a bit of cayenne pepper. Doesn’t taste really good, but does its trick for me every time)

Have fun starting the new plan together. I have still not run with anyone else than hubby, and even with more than 18 months on my running legs, I still hesitate to even consider it.

One day…. And that’s going to be a big first for me!

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate in reply to CBDB]

Thank you, the hug is very welcome 🤗 my friend is back at work today and we’ve discussed our plan to start Saturday. The cold is getting a bit better

[David_G]

Thanks for all those links CBDB and well done on the hill repeats!🏃‍♀️💥💥 I must try those soon🙂👍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to David_G]

All I can say is: Fun fun fun ✨🎇🎆<- fireworks 🤣

[Hidden]

You are clearly very determined and detailed in all that you do. I have only ever completed one 10k so am probably not best placed to offer advice.

However, I would maybe suggest that as you really love running it is very important to look after your feet rather than maybe accept "pain" as some form of conditioning process.

I post this with best intentions and wish you happy, pain free running 👍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, yes. It is appreciated.

I’ll be careful and monitoring my ‘feet situation’. 🙏 And if it doesn’t get better soon, I’ll probably head to a physio.

[Doris8 Graduate10]

Good for you doing hills. Hope your feet gets better , and good luck with your exercises for your feet, 🙂. I prefer the cold as well heat not good for nerve pain.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Doris8]

Thank you, yes! Just have to care for my feet a bit more. 👍🏽

[JonathanP Graduate10]

I had pain similar to yours about 18 months ago CBDB and it progressed to a swollen foot after running. In the end I managed to get a GP appointment and was referred for an X-ray. This found the beginnings of arthritis in one of the metatarsal joints, but I think it was exacerbated by lack of support (my shoes were wearing out). I found ibuprofen gel applied to the joint before running helped, in addition to a new pair of shoes and switching to shorter runs After a few weeks it had subsided and I returned to longer runs, but I still get a twinge now and again. Hope you are able to resolve this!

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to JonathanP]

Oh that is so good to read. I think I will see if I can switch shoes, either to my old ones (less support but larger toe box) or invest in a new pair with a large toe box.

Shorter runs …. It’s probably something I have to consider, but I just am getting used to 10ks. Maybe if I run with 2 or 3 days between each run I should be ok. Will need to gently explore my way forward.

[RunBrianRun Graduate10]

This is such an interesting, informative and useful post CBDB. Thank you. I’m off to explore those links 👍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to RunBrianRun]

Awwhh, thank you. 👍🏽🙏🏃🏾🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏻‍♀️

[GailXrunning]

Great post, CBDB ! Thank you for sharing your research. And so interesting to hear about your hill intervals having just done similar yesterday.🙌

A few years ago - long before the idea of running had crossed my mind - I was diagnosed with Morton’s neuroma. The pain was excruciating - like a dagger being stabbed up through the ball of the foot. The first thing the specialist did was send me to to buy ‘running shoes with a wide fitting’ (and I remember I did a gait analysis as part of that). The specialist then built me some bespoke orthotics to use in these runners, which had a little bump that would push up and separate two tarsals/toes. It worked. However, I’ve remained very limited in the shoes I can wear. They have to have to be wide fit and, ideally, able to accommodate the orthotics. Choice is very limited. Anything narrow (aka ‘normal’ width) means pain returns. There are just a few exceptions (eg DMs, but then these have to be the boots, not the shoes). I also found that ‘rocker’ soles can redistributed the pressure to avoid the neuroma’s particular pressure point (eg fitflops). Most problems I encounter are with finding smarter looking formal shoes. Sports shoes seem to have more wide-fit options (some models and brands, such as Hoka and Brooks, eg). Since taking up running, I’ve simply used wide fit (and done so without my orthotics) and have not had any problem at all.

On my first fitting for running shoes (to run in on c25k), I chose Hoka’s Clifton model because not only did it come in wide-fit, it also approximated the rocker sole. They’ve proved, for me, to be absolutely perfect from the get-go.

So I’d say the prognosis is good … primarily if you can ensure you have enough width in the toe box. (+Stop wearing the shoes that you already know are squashing your feet. In my experience, this situation only goes from bad to worse.)

I hope you find a solution that works for you ASAP.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to GailXrunning]

Oh thank you so much. This is so helpful! And it gives me confidence that there is still a lot that I can do without having to give up my 10k running. Had to also look up rocker soles, and that’s a whole new world of shoes opening up, 🤣

Bummer about my shoes, though. As they are fairly new, were fitted after a gait analysis and were also the first pair I ever bought in that price range (it was this years model), as I just for once wanted to see what difference it made. They feel great though, except this issue now occurring. Bummer.

Thank you again. Really good to read.

[LottieMW Ambassador]

WooHoo! 🙌🏼

Well done on your Runkeeper land mark distance of 1000km! 🙌🏼

…and lots of links for us to explore…brilliant!

BUT…Oh no! Your poor feet ☹️

However…Some good advice on here…look after those feet of yours!

Happy running! 🐌🐢🏃🏻‍♀️🥰

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to LottieMW]

🥰thank you, yeah that 1000km crept up on me , so it was a surprise! ☺️😊👍🏽💪🏃🏼‍♂️🏃🏼‍♀️

[DylanTheRabbit Graduate10]

I had a period of incredibly painful shooting pains coming from between my toes a few years ago.

My GP wasn't really interested but I suspect it was Morton's neuroma. I stopped wearing anything that squashes my toes, including what previously seemed like comfy pump slippers and comfy trainers. Here's a photo of my current shoe collection. All pretty much foot shaped. I gave all my beautiful old shoes away. No medical intervention means I've not gone down the orthotics route and my running shoes are not at all supportive or padded, but for me, no toe restriction = no pain.

P.S. Congratulations on the 1kk that's awesome!

Collection of foot shaped shoes

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to DylanTheRabbit]

Brillliant! Thank you. I will have a think about how to move over to having shoes that support my toebox area with more space. It might be that the return to everyday work, with going back to physcial workplaces and workclothes including "work" shoes has also exacerbated this, now that I think about.

Thank you, and your shoes look so like a collection that I'd love to have. Nice!

[DylanTheRabbit Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

I was so sad to get rid of my old shoes. Luckily some of them fit my sister, so I still see them.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to DylanTheRabbit]

May I actually ask which shops you get these shoes from? (They look like shoes I could get in Germany, when I have lived there, but do not look like shoes I see in the shoe shops near me here in the UK)

[DylanTheRabbit Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

the lace up leather shoes are made by Duckfeet in Denmark. I think they're available in the uk but I bought them from Alpinetrek which means they get sent from Germany.

The two black trainers are vivo barefoot, one pair for walking and a newer pair one size bigger for running. They have an outlet shop (revivo) but if you buy them full price they're returnable, even if you've been running in them (I don't like all the hype on their website, they seem to claim that their shoes will cure all ills, but they're acceptable for my feet).

The pink ones are merrels vapour gloves. I use them for indoor sport.

The boots are made to order by Conkers, very expensive, you can get the right size by drawing round your feet and posting it to them. Their stuff all has that folksy yoghurt weaver look, but very comfortable and I do eat musli

😉

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to DylanTheRabbit]

Oh, I’ll look them all up! Thank you! Much appreciated.

I had bookmarked the vivo barefoot before, but my running shop did not have them to try out. Mmmhhh. 🤔🙂🤩👟👞🥾

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to DylanTheRabbit]

I have only one shoe made by Vivobarefoot. It's actually a hiking boot.

I have some zero-drop "clown shoes" by Merrell, and the rest are Vibram FiveFingers.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

Nice. I wonder if they are also good for metatarsalgia. It does seem that zero drop may be also a good way to go.

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

It's certainly an option. Some folks also have reported an improvement in plantar fasciitis too from going to zero drop and wide toe box.

(Raised heels on shoes were unheard of until the invention of the riding stirrup, where they were a practical solution to keep the foot from slipping off the stirrups. Then increasingly higher heels became a fashion amongst men, and latterly women's fashion copied it. Men then went back to "practical" heels, but women's fashion kept the higher ones.)

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

Interesting, I didn’t know that.

Well, I am getting close to decision time for me. Options are

1 - Just shoes with larger toe box (continue running 10ks but with 3 days rest inbetween runs)

2 - zero drop shoes with toe box (start again with C25k)

3 - zero drop shoes with toes (start again with C25k)

Hmmm 🧐 🤨 🤔 I will have to have a good think about this.

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

The toed option has an unusual fit, based on the longest part of the foot and not on conventional shoe lasts. Those with Morton's Toe (where second or third toe is longer than big toe) might find it hard to get any to fit comfortably.

Unlike normal shoes, with toe shoes a good fit is where the longest toe is almost touching the end of the toe box (with socks on). The structure of the toe box can flex forward slightly to accommodate the movement of the toe.

Curiously my shoe size in FiveFingers got one EU size smaller over the first year of wearing them (EU 47 to 46). I can only assume that the arches tightened up, with the foot ceasing to be "flat".

[RunWillie Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

Hi CBDB

I moved to zero drop this year and didn’t re start C25k. As nowster mentioned there is a big difference between just zero drop and minimalist shoes. I made the transition slowly moving to Hokas before now wearing Altra. I still wear my Hokas for anything over 10k and fast ones. I will be making the switch to totally zero drop next year just wearing Altra as I love the wide toe box. I wear minimalist zero drop shoes/sandals in everyday life but don’t run in them. Love my maximalist zero drop 🤣

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to RunWillie]

Ahhh, interesting! Thank you.

[Hidden]

Nowster run in those weird toe-shaped running shoes. But they are minimalistic and I think it takes a shile for your feet to get used too. Also it can make aches become worse before they become better I think...

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

It's a matter of your tendons and the calf muscles getting used to being extended with a zero drop compared with a raised heel. It does help the posture, though.

It took me about a couple of months to get fully used to walking in them, about ten years ago. I no longer notice the cloth between my toes. I do notice how cramped "normal" shoes are.

The danger with running in them is the exact problem I gave myself at the end of C25K: too much too soon. The support structures of the ligaments and tendons need extra time to adapt to running. This is why consolidation is encouraged after completing C25K.

This applies doubly so in minimalist shoes as there is no structure of a shoe to control pronation, and the ankle especially needs to strengthen to cope with lateral forces.

For that reason I'd advise anyone trying them out to do so very carefully, and not go "all in" running in them full time to start with, no matter how freeing wearing them might feel.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

Yeah, I got that. Therefore i thought if I make the move, it’s back to C25k with zero drops. Hmm 🤔

[nowster Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

It depends on the shoe. Some have more support for the ankles.

However, I'd suggest only using them for the shortest of runs to start with (under 250m), and getting used to walking in them for a few days before that (eg. wear them around the house like slippers).

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

👍🏽

[CBDB Graduate10]

Yes, Hidden , I think one would have to do the whole C25k journey in toe-shoes in order to slowly adapt to this new way of running. I believe it make use of so many more tendons, muscles, bones, ligaments in your feet than when running with normal shoes, so it needs the same kind of training as starting from Couch to 5k.

I guess one thing they do, though, is to make narrow toe-boxes a non-issue, rather the opposite. They spread the toes out. (And of course now I understand why Yoga with Adrience does those toe exercises sometimes, the ones where you put your five fingers between your five toes)