This forms part of a reply to a post in C25K by MuddledGardener. Currently in Week 6. Struggling sometimes to breathe well initially on runs.
Several others agree it is a problem. Can any of you more experienced folk help please?
I have a theory. That you don’t get chance to work out how to breathe properly until you get past C25K week 6 and run for long enough to sort it out. Seems quite a reasonable theory to me, but at the beginning of the week my teeth, lips and gums all stuck together five minutes in, and took ages to sort. Next time out , I was running into the wind, and had no trouble. Perhaps the answer is to run into the wind, with your mouth open for ten minutes each run? All these years I have been breathing automatically , yet suddenly it’s difficult? I haven’t been doing 30 minute runs for long, but those first few minutes can be a different nuisance each time. Has anyone managed to find a way round the breathing problem referred to as the toxic ten? Like you MG, I’m well watered, rested, not aware of any medical problems. Is it something new runners “grow out of “? Is there a way to avoid this feeling? In view of Old Floss’ request for inter co-operation, perhaps I should post this in the 10K posts, see if there is a more experienced runner with a positive suggestion please for us learners?
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I think the only “cure” for the toxic 10 is to run for longer, and here’s my theory..... If you run for 30 minutes, the 1st ten minutes will be hell, so that’s a 1/3 of your total run time. However, if you run for an hour, the 1st 10 minutes will still be hell but overall it becomes a much smaller part of your total run, 1/6. So, the longer you run, the more “enjoyable” it is.
In my (limited) experience, the more you warm-up before your run, the less toxic the first 10 will be. At our parkrun I see the faster runners (22 minutes or less for 5k) doing multiple 100 metre sprints just before the start. Their hearts are already racing at almost top speed before they start running.
Personally I don’t have the energy for this, so I suffer the toxic 10 along with most other runners, but it does seem to work.
Hi telford_mike. Thanks for taking the time to pass on that useful snippet. From here the idea of a 22 minute 5K frightens the life out of me. 46’48”is my Pb. & only 5K time. So far! Interesting idea. Is it down to fast heart? Or would extra oxygen in the lungs do the trick? I could do deep breathing easier than the many sprints. 👍
The only cure for toxic 10 is to run run run. Your lungs are like any other muscle in your body. They too need time to adapt and grow. Your having to pull in so much more oxygen to feed you muscles and when new runners run they tend to hyperventilate and as a result don’t pull in enough oxygen. Muscles too are not used to running and ache. As a result the whole process is an uncomfortable one.
But it gets easier. So don’t worry too much about it. It just takes time. Like anything in life, the more you put into it the more you get out of it.
When I first started 2 years ago I was the very same as you. Now I run 3-4 times per week and most Sundays run 10K or more at a pace which I could not sustain for 1K a year ago. My lungs have adapted along with my muscles and as a result I no longer struggle at breathing. I naturally breathe at a nice steady relaxed pace along with my running pace.
Start slow, is my experience! Aim to do your slowest 1st km and then gradually increase speed. I always try to make sure my breathing is sorted before picking up the pace otherwise the run is a nightmare! It takes time but the more you run the easier it gets 😊
Interesting question. Haven't thought about the toxic 10 for ages, but when I first graduated C25K the first 10 minutes of my runs always felt so awful that I sort of did a deal with myself that if it still felt as terrible at the ten minute point then I'd allow my self to stop - I never did and now it doesn't feel bad.
I think all of the advice so far here is relevant - more and longer running just helps with the fitness of you body including your lungs and circulatory system which I think are what get the biggest demand when you set off. Also I still find skipping warm ups or going off too fast can make for uncomfy running initially. So at the very least I stick to the brisk 5 minute walk of the C25K and try to pace myself a bit for the first 5 minutes (the C25K+podcasts helped me in seeing the benefits of this).
Weirdly I also think there's something about staying relaxed about a run - as soon as I start over-thinking something like breathing or footfall you can guarantee it'll go wrong 😂.
Nearly two years ago I ran my first minute in Wk1R1 of C25K and thought I was going to die - now I can do a comfy 10k and love it.
My reading suggests that the first 10 minutes are your body getting used to the new oxygen requirements, etc (ie from walking to running requires more oxygen) so everything is working overtime to meet a sudden new need. Which is why a better warm up should work as the body will already be ready, or at least better prepared, to meet your body's new requirements.
This is only a theory for me as I still suffer from the toxic 10 (and sometimes toxic 20 or 30)...but I don't do a warm up other than the brisk walk.
I also don't think about my breathing (other than "don't stop" ! ), I kind of go with the flow and trust my body to take what it needs.
I do give a couple of good coughs before starting to clear out old air from the bottom as that helps with my asthma.
I still don’t like the first 10 minutes of a run but as time is going by I think about it less. As others have said, it’s about conditioning your body to respond to change, in this case your lungs and legs needing to work faster. I suppose the longer you do it, the easier it becomes. As you start to increase distance it makes up less of your run so slow the pace a little, get to where you can comfortably ‘chat’ with someone whilst running. Maybe a distraction too? Do you listen to music etc? It does pass, just give yourself time to get there! Happy running!!
I remind myself of Laura’s 4 paces breathe in and 4 out. That reduces to 3-3 after a while and even 2-2 on gradients, but I try to get back to the longer breaths when I can.
Because of my age and the fact that I am slightly asthmatic I have built up my running from a very slow base. I never get out of breath, but then my fastest 5k is just short of 32 minutes. At that pace breathing is simply no problem. I think the fact that I am a swimmer helps....having the luxury of being able to breathe when you like when running, which you haven't got in the water, just makes breathing on a run feel so much easier. I think a good dynamic warm up, not setting off too quickly (I always use my Garmin to check my initial pace) and building up pace run on run gradually over a period is what has helped me. That is a long winded way of saying that maybe you are describing a pace management issue rather than a breathing problem?😊
Quite possibly. Being only a very recent graduate,I bow to your experience. I do tend to just start on this corner then run to that place in about 30 minutes, rather than track each split. I shall have to try harder with the techie stuff. Congrats on the parkrun. Keep enjoying it.
Today I got to parkrun and went for a slow 15 minute out and back jog... yes, I’ve turned into one of “those” runners 🤣. Toxic 10 done before the start. I wasn’t any quicker, but I really enjoyed the run. Then after the barcode scanning I ran on for another 10 minutes.
I bought a second hand garmin recently and seeing what my heart rate does explains the toxic 10 perfectly. It takes about 10 minutes to ramp up to a steady state running bpm, at which point it's pumping enough oxygenated blood around and I am running comfortably rather than feeling like a gasping fish. So like others say, the trick seems to be to get that heart rate up before starting the run proper, like the semi pros doing their 100m sprints. Less tiring options might be to panic about having left the iron on or imagining you have come out with no clothes on. Not tried them yet
Someone once told me it takes your heart at least 10 - 20 mins to get it constant rhythm which is why the start of a run is always a mind over matter. Not sure if it's true but I always go by it
When I run as a kid we would do a jog and sprints before a race. That may have helped the adults in the group but as a kid I was knackered when I started the race. Saying that, afte rthe race I had energy to run again, maybe the warm ip just wasnt at my pace.
Nowadays I don’t have the energy to run before I run although maybe I should try it... I find the forst 5’ really hard and always question why I am doing it, then I have a glitch at 30’ and when I have run longer, I have another fatigue moment at 60’. At those points it’s mind over matter, focus hard on abs breathing and or if need be 30seconds walk or just a few steps. Interesting convo
I used to really curse this when I first started running. Always a really difficult 5-10 minutes, sometimes so bad I would want to stop, but always something that resolved if I carried on. It’s only reading this and the other similar posts that I realise it no longer happens to me. I have been running 4 and a bit years. I have no idea when it stopped, whether it stopped suddenly, or faded over time. But with hindsight I don’t remember a recent occurrence. So it may be that your body adapts over time, if so, the answer is to keep running. The answer to life is always to keep running.
A mini run of a couple of hundred metres gets rid of my toxic 10. Even if I then have a 5-10 minute break before running. I never usually bother except if I’m going for a PB and then it definitely helps.
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Did not run for two weeks; still not back to 30 minutes
Houston we have a problem...
Building a better aerobic base, for eventual 10K
The toxic 10 (kilometres)
