What has your therapist's approach to scary thoughts been?

[fromzerotopanic]

I have had a major health anxiety flare up this past week, and since I couldn't get in to see my therapist right away, to try to find some support, I looked online for techniques as to how to handle intrusive thoughts that send you over the edge (Im not new to this, have had it for years, with therapy here and there during tough spots). Most sources said to not engage, let the thoughts float by, and to then practice exposure response, such as write your own obit, then hold off reacting, write or say your fear multiple times without reacting as one would usually do, such as a compulsion to google, ask for reassurance etc. Then gradually work your way up. But yesterday, my therapist suggests I just go 'all in' and confront the fear face on, which for me is cancer (I'm afraid to even type the word or I'll jinx myself in some way). So his approach would be, when I have the thought 'you're probably going to get cancer like other family members did', I should just say, 'yeah I probably will', or exaggerate it even further such as, "I'm probably going to get the worst kind, it'll be horrible, etc". His thought is that fear only has power in what scares you. So if you already beat your fearful intrusive thoughts to the punch "yeah I know, I'll most likely get cancer" then it takes all the air out of 'fear's balloon' so to speak and will eventually move on if it doesn't get the reaction it seeks. So my question is, has anyone else done this 'jumping in feet first' approach, vs slowing wading in, and if yes has it worked for you? I'm still nervous that by me saying it, it will actually cause it to happen. I know that's not how it works, but it's part of my fearful thoughts as well! I know they say to counter that with 'I might win the lottery', and just by saying see if that makes it happen, but when it's something terrifying, it's hard to get that thought to stick (that it won't happen just because I say it will, or that I'll jinx myself). I'd appreciate any thoughts if this approach has worked or any other ideas that have worked for you in such a case! Thank you!

[Opportunity]

There’s a technique called turn-arounds that I found helpful. I will see if I can find it.

[Opportunity in reply to Opportunity]

Ok, it’s a little difficult. It might be too difficult. But it’s the Work by Katie Byron and it’s step 4 of the Work. This is the booklet from her website.

thework.com/wp-content/uplo...

Basically, you take your worry and write it down.

“I don’t like or want cancer.”

Then you turn it around three times and find three support for the turnarounds.

Turnaround # 1might be: I don’t like or want to let go of this worry.

Support #1: I like being in control.

Support# 2: I fear the negative version of the future.

Support #3: if I prepare for the worst, it won’t hurt as bad as if it comes out of the blue.

Support#4: somebody in my past got really mad at me and I learned to deeply fear not having foresight. (That one is extra, but personal to me).

Turnaround # 2 might be: I will prevent cancer.

Support #1: I eat pretty healthy most of the time

Support #2: I don’t smoke or do drugs

Support #3:

Turnaround #3 might be: People don’t like or want cancer.

Support #1: Researchers work on this everyday.

Support #2: new findings show the cures are getting better and better

Support #3:

[fromzerotopanic in reply to Opportunity]

Thank you, I'll look into this a bit!

[fromzerotopanic in reply to fromzerotopanic]

After a quick read, I like how she says there are three kinds of business; mine, yours and God's. The only business I should be in is my own! If I'm in yours or Gods, no one is handling my business!

[Beevee]

Hi! Dr Claire Weekes wrote about facing and accepting fears. This means not shying away from fearful thoughts and feelings, letting them have their say and then letting them go with zero resistance. So, I dont think your therapist is wrong in their approach as I think the meaning is the same. Allowing yourself to think and feel everything anxiety can muster and not doing anything to change things. This is facing and accepting those fears which are just figments of an anxious mind. In all likelihood (and my experience) those fearful (and uninvited) thoughts would not be there if you didn't have anxiety.

I've posted alot of information on this forum about overcoming anxiety and the myriad of symptoms which you might find useful.

I overcame anxiety and depression by following the teachings of Dr Claire Weekes. I got rid of all techniques to stop myself feeling anxious (e.g. avoidance, suppression, deliberate distraction etc) and let myself fall into any state of mind (i.e. full exposure) and letting the anxious thoughts and feelings be there for as long they liked. All my symptoms gradually faded away over time.

[fromzerotopanic in reply to Beevee]

Thanks, Beevee! Do you have specific links to Dr Weekes, or if I just google her will I find what I need? When you said you got rid of all the techniques to stop the anxious feelings, I assume you mean the compulsions you found yourself doing to help make the anxiety go away (thought not a good approach)? Among countless other things I need, I find I need to find a way to to stop the avoidance of things that trigger the anxiety. It can be anything from a song, a smell, even an item can trigger things. I've thrown things away because of the fearful feelings they can invoke at times. I know this isn't good, so need to find ways to deal with such!

[Beevee]

There's plenty of material on the internet about Dr Weekes. I bought her book called Essential Help for your Nerves. In my opinion, this book is the complete A to Z of anxiety/depression and how to overcome it, which is entirely possible without medication and regardless of how long a person may have suffered. Anxiety has alot to do with sensitisation of nerves (caused by prolonged stress or trauma) which are waiting to desensitise and heal once the sufferer stops battling with the thoughts and feelings which can also be habitual. Acceptance breaks the fear adrenalin fear cycle, allowing the mind and body the space and time it needs to recover and to remap those neuro pathways in the brain so that your fight/flight response reverts to normal levels and only triggered in appropriate situations (e.g. fleeing from real danger).

You mentioned throwing things away which caused you anxiety. This is a pure avoidance technique which only serves to strengthen messages to the brain that there is danger and keeping those nerves sensitised. Anxiety thrives on avoidance and any other technique used to stop a sufferer from feeling anxious.

To overcome anxiety, you must learn to allow those scary thoughts to come and observe them, instead of engaging with them and placing belief in them. They are just anxious energy being released which needs to be felt to be released and part of the recovery process. Recovery is delayed if the sufferer keeps entertaining the thoughts and recoiling in more fear. Adding more fear to the anxious thoughts just keeps the sufferer stuck in the anxiety cycle because it produces more adrenalin which fuels the thoughts and feelings that you are desperately trying to escape! Compulsions or OCD are just a by product of anxiety. The sufferer are just another avoidance or suppressing tactic. As I have already said, recovery lies in those places you fear so learn to go towards those fears with as much acceptance that you can muster. Not through gritted teeth but more a case of what will be, will be.

[fromzerotopanic in reply to Beevee]

Wise words, thank you. I guess it's like the words from a book (cant recall the name) where it talks about run into the storm to get out of it quicker! We tend to run away from the storm, but it's always on our tail and eventually catches up with us and we're in the midst of it longer. So I guess facing our fears head on gets us out of it quicker! I wondered if what we say to our intrusive thoughts mattered as far as recovery vs setting off another trigger though. For me, its scary to actually admit I might get cancer out loud, so hopefully Dr Weekes will have some advice on how to get over the idea that just because I say it doesn't make it real, or that i want it or that I'm jinxing myself. It's like I know somewhere in my 'head' that it won't happen, but I just can't quite get it to stick where it needs to be! Does Dr Weekes also offer advice as to whether or not we should counter with a positive affirmation, such as 'maybe I won't"? Or is that engaging the thought in an unproductive way? I guess that's not facing the fear head on, but rather arguing with it??

[designguy]

One of the key things to realize is that what you are trying to do with your health anxiety is control life which is futile, impossible and frustrating. When you realize and accept that the only real "control" we have over life is our next breath you realize how futile the pursuit of trying to "control" anything is, especially when it comes to some possible future event or outcome. Beevee mentions that to overcome anxiety you must learn to accept and no longer fear the anxious thoughts and feelings which is very true but you also must make a conscious decision to decide how much you want to live in fear or surrender to the flow of life and trust the outcome day by day.

[fromzerotopanic in reply to designguy]

You are exactly right in saying it's an attempt to control. Unfortunately, this health anxiety is tied to the waist with OCD, which is all about needing/wanting control. Combine that with it being the 'doubter's disease' as well, makes it especially challenging! May I ask you if this is a battle you have faced yourself and if yes, what techniques did you use to overcome it? I understand what I need to do, based on what both you Beevee suggested. The biggest problem I have with this is the 'HOW' do I do it? What are the techniques/tricks etc I need to do or tell myself to actually get me to the point where I actually make the decision to let go of fear and go with the flow? Same with what Beevee said...I understand what I need to do, but not 'how'! How does one actually "observe" or "face" the fear? What do I say to it, or do I say nothing? Do I challenge it to 'do it's worse" or is that still engaging?

[Beevee in reply to fromzerotopanic]

Acceptance of all anxiety related symptoms (e.g. OCD) is not something you "do." Acceptance is all about developing a genuine attitude of not caring about the symptoms and living your life regardless of how you may be feeling. What will be, will be. Being ok about not feeling ok. Let it do its worst caring less about how you may be thinking or feeling. Going with the flow. If your mind is racing and your OCD is in overdrive, let it race but learn to not pay too much attention to the crap it spews. Turn all those what if thoughts into so what!?

It takes time to develop a genuine attitude of acceptance so accept that too. Accept it all.

If I felt really anxious and afraid to do something or go somewhere, I did it anyway. I knew there was nothing I could do to make those anxious thoughts and feelings disappear so just carried on doing normal things, no matter how I felt.

[fromzerotopanic in reply to Beevee]

Thanks, Beevee. As I mentioned to design guy, I've always struggled with the 'how's' of everything. In church, they tell you to ust have faith'! How do I do that?! That seems to make as much sense as someone telling you 'just don't worry about it', lol! Im trying to figure out how I can internalize the acceptance. But as you said, I guess it's going to take a long time! So basically, if I have a thought pop into my head that tells me 'the reason you're tired is because it's one of the signs of cancer", then am I supposed to say something like 'maybe it is'? But if I understand correctly from things I've read, I shouldn't reply with 'yeah but maybe it's just because I didn't sleep well", because that is me engaging with the thought? Also, what I find happening is, the thoughts don't always 'pop into my head'. Sometimes they 'lurk' within the anxious feelings I have. It's as if I know the scary thought is hiding within the shadow of those anxious feelings, so I 'feel it', even without 'hearing my mind say the thought, if that makes sense. So even if I just have a 'feeling', I just say 'I know you're there, but I don't care"?

[Beevee in reply to fromzerotopanic]

It makes complete sense to me. It might help to care less about those thoughts that lurk when I tell you that they are just anxious energy being released and simply wouldn't be there if you didnt have anxiety! Anxiety magnifies their impact giving them a false sense of importance and sufferers feelmobliged to engage/challenge them. Ths just adds more stress, creating more anxious energy and on it goes!

Recovery is about releasing all that energy without any hindrance from you by engaging with the thought. Practice an attitude of "So what!?" Instead of "What if???" to those thoughts and let them go. The more you practice, the easier it gets. The thoughts will still be there for a while even when you are fully accepting but keep going. I got to a stage where they just didn't matter to me any more. By letting the thoughts come and go without resistance, you draw their sting and they eventually lose their shock factor and disappear. I had thousands upon thousands of negative thoughts generated by my anxious mind. They all eventually disappeared.

[designguy in reply to fromzerotopanic]

One of the most valuable "techniques" I have learned is mindfulness, not to be confused with meditation. By purposefully sitting for a period of time and just letting my thoughts come and go has been very helpful for knowing and feeling what "just detach from your thoughts" means. When I first started I would think of it and try to visualize a TV screen with the sound off, with the images coming and going. I didn't worry about my mind wandering or the content of the thoughts, I just let them come and go and observed them. It will initially be difficult but do it for periods throughout the day and you'll get the hang of it. After you get the hang of it, purposefully do the same thing with feelings, it will be good practice for being able to just observe them also.

A really important thing to understand about anxiety is that its role is to protect you at all costs, it's not your enemy, it's your friend although sometimes it sure doesn't seem like it. Consequently, the way to deal with it is to never believe your anxious thoughts or feelings, unless you are being chased by a tiger, because they are lies. I can't stress this enough. Use the anxious thoughts as a warning signal that you are overly stressed and believing something that isn't true for you. Know also that when you are overly stressed, it takes time for you mind and body to naturally calm down and destress so allow it accordingly.

Beeve mentioned Dr. Weekes whose books and youtube videos are very helpful. There is also another good resource by a guy who took her knowledge and has expanded on it called the DARE Anxiety program by Barry McDonaugh. He has a book, youtube videos and phone apps. His approach is about actively embracing the anxious thoughts and feelings, daring them to happen, expecting them and ultimately learning to be ok with them. I have found it to be a good practical approach for accepting anxiety, especially for those of us who are natural problem solvers. His assistant is a lady named Michelle Cavanaugh and her youtube videos are really good. I've found the DARE program to be very helpful and a good reminder for me when I have a setback to get me back on course.

Another good resource I have used is The Work by Byron Katie. It's a program she developed for learning how to question your thoughts and change your thinking and beliefs. It's really simple and useful for stressful thinking. She has some books and youtube videos you can check out.

Hope this is helpful for you.

[Beevee in reply to designguy]

Loving your post Designguy. All roads lead to acceptance and having that disconnect with the thoughts and feelings because they are false when anxiety is present.

[designguy in reply to Beevee]

Thank you Beevee, what a nice compliment. I remember reading about someone visiting a mental institution and commenting that the only difference between them and the person locked up there is that person believed their anxious thoughts. It really hit home for me and put it into context.