roseway labs

[Katrina999666]

I was on Levothyroxine didn’t do well on it consulted privately been on NDT for last 2 years diagnosed with Pericarditis Angina and high blood pressure put on Beta blocker and cardiology insisted I come off NDT whilst waiting for Angiogram and revert back to Levothyroxine which I did and subsequently felt awful after 8 weeks had a private blood draw including R t3 which was raised as well as TSH and T3 T4 levels weren’t optimal either. Due to the raised Rt3 I believe Im a poor converter and think it might be time to consider T3 only. Would anyone share their experiences of using Roseway Labs either by posting or messaging thanks

[greygoose]

Difficult to say anything for certain without seeing your full resullts and ranges. But unless your FT4 was at the top of the range, your high rT3 was more likely due to being on Beta Blockers than having anything to do with your conversion rate.

Testing rT3 is not the best way to determine how well you convert because high rT3 can be caused by so many things that have nothing to do with thyroid. The best method is to get your FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time and compare them.

Besides, poor conversion is not a valid reason for going T3 only. It should be an absolute last ressort. And if your doctors disliked NDT, they're going to absolutely hate T3 mono-therapy!

[Katrina999666 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks greygoose I've attached a copy of the results I had done at the time

black and white

[Katrina999666 in reply to Katrina999666]

Thanks greygoose

black and white

[Katrina999666 in reply to Katrina999666]

Raised Ferritin this has been the case for years investigated and nothing found to be the cause. Raised B12 is due to supplementation, Raised Folate is again due to folic acid medication which has now been discontinued by GP

[greygoose in reply to Katrina999666]

FT4: 18.9 pmol/l (Range 12 - 22) 69.00%

FT3: 4.4 pmol/l (Range 3.1 - 6.8) 35.14%

OK so if we convert those results to percentages through the range, we can see that your FT4 is unlikely to be high enough to trigger conversion to excess rT3. Although everyone's set point is different.

On the other hand you are a pretty poor converter. If you converted well, the difference between the percentage through the range of the FT3 would be much close to the percentage through the range of the FT4. There shouldn't be such a huge gap. And it's because your FT3 is so low that your TSH is so high.

Your raised ferritin could be due to your high-ish CRP.

Your B12 is also high. Do you take supplements?

[Katrina999666 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks greygoose I'm trying to get my head around why the huge gap

Ferritin has always been high but no cause as yet has been found they just suggest inflammation?

B12 supplementation I haven't been supplementing for approx 6 months the levels are reducing.

Do you think that perhaps a little T3 would help as when they prescribed higher dose of Levo previously all that did was raise my T4 this is the first time I have had the Rt3 tested

[greygoose in reply to Katrina999666]

There's nothing to get your head around. You're a poor converter, that's all. It's pretty common, and very rare to ever find out why.

No, I don't think increasing your levo is the answer. Far better to just add in some T3, if you can.

I agree, your high ferritin is likely due to inflammation - high CRP is inflammation.

I wouldn't bother getting rT3 tested again, if I were you.. It doesn't give you any useful information.

[Katrina999666 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you so having never been on just T3 or in addition to how would I determine what dose to start with if I was able to source it

[greygoose in reply to Katrina999666]

You don't determine anything, you follow the protocol. As with all hormones, you start low and increase slowly. With T3 that means starting with 5 mcg. If all goes well, after a couple of weeks you can add in a second dose of 5 mcg. And you continue like that until you feel well. But the higher the dose gets, the longer the spaces between increases should be.

[Scatterling]

Roseway supply my NDT. It is prescribed through their electronic ordering system by my Private Endo consultant, which they fulfil and post out by RM. I have had no issues with them over past two years.

[Katrina999666 in reply to Scatterling]

Thank you

[arTistapple]

”insisted you come off NDT…” This is due to their utter ignorance of NDT. Doctors (including endocrinologists) know nothing about T3 and NDT will be like ‘witchcraft’.

I know not nearly enough myself but I know quite a bit about heart issues and the ‘steamrolling’ applied by cardiologists. Cardiologists (in particular) think of themselves as heroes and are totally perplexed if you don’t agree or ask them questions. They expect to be obeyed. My very eminent cardiologists told me at our first meeting “I leave endocrinology to endocrinologists”. I knew I was off to a very bad start.

Did you find any ‘Why’ in relation to your pericarditis?

[Katrina999666 in reply to arTistapple]

Thanks arTistapple for replying yes they have that certain air of superiority about them there was no cause found and when I read up on it patients with Hypothyroidism was mentioned as one of the possible causes when I brought this to his attention he almost laughed at the thought it has resolved now I was on Colchicine for 6 weeks

[arTistapple in reply to Katrina999666]

Yes Katrina. It’s like talking a foreign language which they have no wish to hear. I am not optimally treated for my hypo state and everything points to the fact that I should be. Cardiology step in (as heroes) and everything must be done according to them. They are clearly not familiar with patients who want to know what’s going on. It’s tough. Endocrinology won’t treat and cardiology want in ripping me apart. At the moment I wont even let them give me another angio. Never mind. My problem.

I hope someone more knowledgable about thyroid will be back to help you. I find the smallest of changes to thyroid meds (levo only at the moment) can make things so different. Too much and too little. Maybe you just need a little tweaking. One of the problems I have become aware of on the Forum is that NDT sometimes needs tiny additions of either T4 or T3 to suit just you!

[pennyannie]

Hello Katrina

Well yes, looking back it appears you didn't get on well with T4 - had poor conversion, and found NDT suited you better and you had been on Natural Desiccated Thyroid for a couple of years prior to this surgery.

So nothing has changed, and your Reverse T3 - surplus / unconverted T4 is over range.

We all make some reverse T3 - it''s a natural process for the body to lose surplus hormones but your result is in excess.

Conversion of T4 can also be compromised due to inflammation, antibodies, any physiological stress ( emotional or physical ) and depression, dieting and ageing all play their part in causing reverse T3 .

So reading your post it is obvious that you have a few other things going on -

none of which are helping this situation :

In order for any thyroid hormone replacement to work well we do need ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D up and maintained at optimal levels - just for reference I now aim to maintain ferritin at around 100 - folate at around 20 - active B12 125 ( serum B12 500++ ) and vitamin D at around 125.

You also appear to have over range antibodies indicative of Hashimoto's Auto Immune disease that tends to attack the thyroid and or eyes - did you know this already ?

I don't know anything about cortisol but here again, it's in red - and needs looking into :

Once on thyroid hormone replacement we need the TSH at least maintained under 2 with many feeling better when the TSH is towards the bottom of the range and / suppressed.

Hypothyroid symptoms will likely start being experienced once the TSH rises over 2.

Your T4 is coming in at around 68% with your T3 tracking behind at just around 35% -

We generally feel best when the T4 is up in the top quadrant at around 80% with the T3 tracking just behind at around 70% - and then at a ratio of around a 1/4 T3/T4.

Which just happens to be the ratio of T3/T4 found in NDT.

I'm so sorry you have had to go through all this -

As I understand things Roseway offer a Doctor consult and offer all treatment options but it would be Private and currently NDT on the NHS has been black listed - and why many of us have been forced into going Private or DI for ourselves.

[Katrina999666 in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you for replying yes looking back I thought all was well when I migrated over to NDT. Having these cardiac issues appear may have rocked the boat for me. Yes Hashimotos was the initial diagnosis thankfully the Pericarditis has resolved with medication however it was interesting to read in more than one publication that Hypothyroid patients could be the cause.