I heard about dessicated thyroid today and thought it sounded really interesting and was wondering if anyone on here takes it or has tried it and just general thoughts really. Is it better than levothyroxine? Thanks
Dessicated thyroid opinion: I heard about... - Thyroid UK
Dessicated thyroid opinion
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Historically_valid
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helvellaAdministrator
Several of my blog pages concern desiccated thyroid and its history.
History Pages
helvella - Animal Thyroid in The British Pharmaceutical Codex of 1907
helvella - Historical Context of Thyroid Treatment in the UK
helvella - History of Thyroid Hormone Medicines in the UK
helvella - The End of Thyroid BP
The First Treatment of Myxoedema in County Londonderry
THE LIFE-HISTORY OF THE FIRST CASE OF MYXOEDEMA TREATED BY THYROID EXTRACT
helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...
And I have a thyroid hormones document for desiccated thyroid.
helvella - World Desiccated Thyroid
Contains details of all known desiccated thyroid products including information about several products not considered to be Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT/Desiccated Thyroid Extract/DTE).
📄 dropbox.com/scl/fi/gx6dmz5i...
Thank you for all the information, I’ll have a good read through!
I read your member name towards literally. 
Love the user name. 🙂
It works for many of us, no doubt about that.
But it’s not something you’re likely to get on the NHS and it’s very expensive.
Are you still on 50mcg levothyroxine? That’s only a starter dose and it’s likely you’re undermedicated. Levothyroxine doesn’t top up your thyroid hormone levels, it replaces them. Unfortunately, many doctors don’t seem to understand that.
thank you ☺️ yes still currently on 50mg and have my review next week. I just have a gut feeling the doctor won’t increase it or will take me off it as she wasn’t keen to trial it to begin with. Had an interesting conversation about alternatives today to help if this were to happen. Was curious what people thought or experienced with it ☺️
Lots of us do well with it, but as I hinted, it’s getting hold of it that’s the fun part. It’s possible to find a private endo to issue a private prescription (as I said, not cheap!) and those of us who don’t do that order it online from other countries—which has its own challenges—fears about fake drugs, Customs imports duty (I had to pay a bill of £70 yesterday just to get one bottle delivered), added to the hefty cost of it (hundreds of pounds) in the first place.
Unfortunately many GPs just don’t understand enough about how thyroid disorders work. It’s not their fault, they’re told at medical school and via the NICE guidance that it’s a simple case of keeping blood test results in range. But the lab ranges are too wide and if you’re on too little thyroid hormones you’ll likely feel rubbish and to add insult to injury, you’re likely to develop deficiencies in nutrients like ferritin, B12, folate, Vit D etc, which will make you feel even worse. That’s because hypothyroidism reduces gut absorption.
Make sure you get your blood test results, and if there’s wriggle room, ask if you could trial an increase in dosage because you still have symptoms (I’m assuming you do?). The word “trial” sometimes helps to get them to consider the idea. Most people on thyroid hormone replacement need at least 75mcg per day—and quite a lot of us need more than that. 50mcg might be enough if you’re very petite.
Thank you, it’s definitely something I’ll keep in mind. I still have all the symptoms unfortunately which is why I’m worried. I will try and push for higher dosage and if not will go private as I’ve had enough of feeling like this. Grateful for the information, thank you so much!
I get my Armour from spring field pharmacy in London and it's expensive but affordable.
Me too
i take it you need a private prescription to send to them?
Lots of people do well on levothyroxine if it's prescribed optimally. The big issue is many patirnts are under prescribed because gps can only do the TSH. Treating by the TSH is known to lead to underprescribing. It should also be the ft4 & Ft3.
The estimate is around 80% do well on Kevithyroxibe but 20% of patients do not do well with levothyroxine and need T3 liothyronine adding in.
You need to give levothyroxine time and wait to see what happens with dose increases.....you should be reviewed with a blood test 6-8 weeks after each increase. However the nhs have now increased that to 12 weeks.....saving money strategy I believe....lol.
I would not be looking at coinination treatments yet it's too soon.
Am sure you've checked your b12, iron, folate and vit D? These are the 5 that can be low and optimising them will help. Your GP can arrange blood tests for them.
Hi Historically Valid,
I tried Armour a few years ago and had read that patients report a sense of well being that you don’t get on other thyroid medications. I can confirm that this is true. It was lovely after having felt so rubbish for so long. Some of my symptoms which haven’t yet gone on thyroxine (I think I'm under replaced) went almost straight away so it is different. I also managed to get it on the NHS on a named patient basis after having it recommended by a private Dr but that’s quite rare.x
Thank you for your reply, thats really interesting to knowx
I take NDT Armour by private healthcare and have got on well with it. Low and slow is my Dr’s approach. I started on 1/4 grain and went up 1/4 grain a time, every 8-12 weeks. Had a blip last month due to ferritin going low but I’m through it and feeling on the up again.
That’s good to know thank you ☺️
I live in France, where NDT is illegal, and I moved heaven and earth to get hold of it! Only to find I felt ten times worse and put on so much weight I became bed-bound.
I started on Armour and at fist did well on it. then they changed the formulation and everything started to go pear-shaped. I tried other brands of NDT - there were a lot of them around at that time - but never found one that would make me well. I was so disappointed! I'd pinned all my hopes on this because I did not get on at all with levo. So, there's obviously something basically wrong with me! 
Then, found out by accident that what made me well was T3 mono-therapy. And I've never looked back. It's all on my profile if you want to read it.
I think, with retrospect, the problem was that I need high doses of T3, and very little to zero T4. The ratio was just wrong for me: too little T3 and way too much T4! But, if you're ok on T4 mono-therapy then you could do well on NDT. It's all trial and error, and I'm glad I had the opportunity to try it. Because you never know until you try. The problem, as others have said, is that these days it's so hard to get hold of, very expensive and not much choice. But, that's progress for you!
That’s really really interesting. Sounds like a really long process but so glad you’ve got what you needed now. That is something to definitely keep in mind though. Thank you so much ☺️
You're very welcome.
I have been on it for over 10 years. ... It is the only thing that actually works for me. (Synthyroid was like taking nothing!)
Thank you, good to know that it does work, all this information is really helpful ☺️
I have been on it for a year and I am a different person. I regained my energy and feel well. The only downside is the cost!
Oh that’s really good, glad you’ve found something that’s helped. I’m definitely keeping this option in mind thank you ☺️
I have been using it too and it has really been beneficial. I discovered it by watching Dr Sarah Myhill. I take periodic thyroid hormone tests through Blue Horizon I also had food sensitivity tests and have found using the information from that test to also significantly improve my health. Some of my family members have also used the food sensitivity test as have changed their diet and experienced significant health benefits!
That’s really interesting too, thank you for sharing. Really appreciate all this information thank you ☺️
Hiya, can I please ask what food intolerance tests you took?
I have taken NDT for 20 years. It has been a game changer. My symptoms are kept at bay; I am healthy and feel well. I did not fully feel recovered on synthetic thyroid.
It’s expensive and testing is required more frequently when you start it or have challenges.
Thank you, that’s really good to know especially about more regular testing. Thank you that’s really helpful ☺️
hello, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism over 10 years ago … nhs standard treatment of Levothyroxine low dosage then was as to gradually increase.
Sadly felt rubbish enough to find private ends who was able to prescribe T3 (liothyronine) alongside the Levo and various vitamins
Gradually had increased doses but symptoms were all still awful even though I took 150 Levo and 75mcg of T3
One year ago, I then found a new private endocrinologist who has helped me so much by prescribing me Armour Thyroid.
GP are happy to prescribe via NHS and I happy to say my symptoms have greatly reduced, the weight has reduced and slowly increased dosage is working wonders …… best I’ve felt in over 15 years !!
I am carefully monitored and have to send regular ecg and blood pressure readings and yes it’s expensive to have private consultation but it’s so worth it as I feel human again and can function day to day
I still have an occasional fatigued day and I don’t work full time but I am sure in another year I will improve and feel better yet.
If you can manage to get private prescription with a gp who will support prescriptions grab it with both hands and feel better soon !
Thank you so much that’s really helpful. I can see from everyone’s answers that this will be a long process but all these answers have given me a bit of hope. Fingers crossed I will be lucky to find someone who’s willing to support this option if Levo’s not working. Thanks again for sharing, really appreciated ☺️
How did you manage to get this through your GP? I am paying about £2k a year to take NDT?
Hello SCKeep,
Your post is so helpful. I have been on levothyroxine for the longest time (20+ years) after my thyroid was removed. I know that I am a poor converter from T4 to T3 and would very much like to give Armour a try. Would you be able to share the name of your Armour-friendly private endo by DM ? I would really appreciate it.
I've been using NDT for the longest time. I think few GP s would prescribe it and so you would most likely end up trying it out at your own expense. It's horribly costly but the only thing that works for me. To me levo is poison and makes me ill, very ill. I constantly tinker with my dose because even a little too much and I am afflicted with nasty ocular migraines, too little and I cant properly function. I just stay clear of medics nowadays and buy from someone overseas that I trust. It probably costs me somewhere in the region of £500 a year. My comment in no way is advice and only statement of fact. Good luck.
Thank you that’s really helpful information and despite the cost I’m glad you’ve found something that works ☺️
Hey Greyjaybee! Would you mind if I private message you. I'm also on NDT and have to move so this is shaking things up for me in a big way.
Certainly, yes of course, although I dont know how much advice I could offer. I'm very much a 'do my own thing' sort of a gal. But happy to try 😀👍
I’ve been on this (Armour Thyroid) since 2002, a year after my total thyroidectomy. I did not do well on any dose of levothyroxine - initial doses left me with hypothyroid symptoms that did not resolve despite increasing doses, and higher doses left me with hyPERthyroid symptoms. I have a genetic variant, apparently, that means I’m not very efficient at converting the T4 (which is all levothyroxine is) to the T3 my cells require. Armour Thyroid gave me my life back, and I’ve been functioning optimally and completely normally since being on it. I take 105mg per day, and it took about six months to get the dosage right. I have a full thyroid panel once a year and my levels are all fine - my TSH is normally about 0.2 which works for me. Advice is to take it first thing in the morning and wait an hour before you eat. It binds with calcium so don’t take calcium supplements within four hours of taking NDT. If Levi tho yep one isn’t working for you, I highly recommend you try Armour. It isn’t covered by NHS, and it’s super expensive (about £350 for 100 days worth at my dose of 105mg/day), but my private prescription costs me only £25 each time and my doctor’s only ask is that thyroid panel annually. Some NHS clinics are willing to issue a prescription for it, but not all of them. Good luck!
Thyroid results after 22 years on NDT
Hello
Could you explain your values please? I can’t see an FT3 value.
How do you obtain a dose of 105 mcg a day from Armour?
Thank you
These aren’t the full panel results, they’re quick results from the clinic my doc required in order to write my scrip this last time because I’d asked for a couple of extra months worth since I’m on an extended trip right now. My full panel is later in the year. I take one 90mg (1-1/2 grain) tablet and one 15mg (1/4 grain) tablet, which adds up to 105mg (that’s milligrams (mg), not micrograms), or 1-3/4 grains.
Thanks for helping me out with the maths of that. Lol
I've been on ndt (Armour Thyroid) for 17yrs. I was diagnosed 20yrs ago eith hypothyroidism. Levothyroxine did not work for me even on a very high dose still.poorly. levo liothyronine helped but didn't feel normal or even despite mutiple splitting of t3. Armour Thyroid was and is amazing.....I felt even.
Eventually after 3 years of self funding got it on the nhs. But this year ndt funding and prescribing was removed. I've been in a fight to get it back. Am on a nhs Endo books who will advise but his ICB will not allow prescribing out of area so need shared care which is back in place. Lost the funding for it....so it's about to go back to my local ICB. It's been going on most of the year.....and was left high and dry with no meds.
So ndt on the nhs is not an easy route even if you've been on it a longtime like me & have been funded on the nhs. You can loose it just like that!! I have my MP etc involved.
Hello waveylines
Not sure whether you’ve tried Thyroid S. Just wondering if you’ve noticed any difference if you have. It contains the same amount of T3/T4 (per grain: 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3) but I’m surprised that some people who’ve tried both have settled on Armour - especially as it’s so much more expensive.
Thanks Cake-Maker. No haven't tried it yet. On my list if I can't get funding back.....but daft as have a nhs Endo whose sent a treatment plan to GP for Armour!! It's often all in the fillers, plus how the tablet is compounded, though to how you react. Pharmacist told me this once. I tried WP Thyroid and Acella NP. I did not get on with WP Thyroid. Acella NP I loved but sadly nhs took it off the options so moved ro Armour Thyroid..... I'd been on Erfa but found it inconsistent (few years back....may have changed now)
Thanks for your response. I did wonder if it was a case of fillers. I’m finding Thyroid S a tad inconsistent at the moment
Hi, I have also found my response to Thyroid S somewht erratic but didn't know whether it was the product or me! Desperate to find a decent endo to advise as I've been fumbling around on my own since Barry Durrant-Peatfield retired.
I too have just sorted out a private Endo who claims to be a T3/NDT sympathiser!!
Hoping for some good advice. At least I won’t have to fight the suppressed TSH battle. I emailed him first and checked out his views. With Private Consultations getting increasingly expensive, I wanted to make sure that he’d be on board before I booked a consultation.
Please pm me the endo's details!
Sorry to hear this Are there any batch issues? I'd heard ThyroidS is usually very reliable.
I think it’s probably me not the Thyroid S. I’ve also recently been started on various prescribed medications and who knows how that affects thyroid meds.
Drug interaction checkers (all of them) are very limited and rely on information gleaned through trials or yellow card reporting.
Sorry you’re having to go through all that, I hope you can get it resolved soon. Thank you for sharing ☺️
I take it and love it! Armour Thyroid is the best.
Hi there 😃 I was on Levothyroxine for 30 years and had a few chronic illnesses that went away when I started dessicated thyroid (Erfa). Lately it has become more expensive due to a shortage of the ingredients. I'm still taking it and this last batch was less expensive again (about half what I paid before). For 3 months, it was 300 pounds at some point. This last time, it was 187. Thyroid S may be less expensive. Anywho, you didn't ask about the price, but it's the only downside I've experienced. Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more questions if you want.
Thank you for your help, it’s good to know what costs I’d be looking at so really helpful ☺️
You're so welcome 🤗
I have used it for years. I also add Cytomel. Since I was diagnosed in 1988 I don't know what feeling "normal" is so I can't tell you that the desiccated thyroid makes a difference in how I feel. I also have a host of other conditions which also makes things difficult as far as determining the effect of desiccated thyroid. Overall though, my tests are better when I take the two prescriptions in the correct dosages so I will continue in that.
Thank you for sharing ☺️
I have been on NDT via a private clinic for some time. I got nowhere with my GP because my TSH was around 5 which is too low for NHS treatment despite my having distinct symptoms (in my case muscle aches which were properly investigated with no solution). When I went to the thyroid clinic I was straight away diagnosed hypothyroid and given a choice of treatment. After much reading I chose NDT. Part of my investigations showed that I might need high levels of T3 to fix my muscles. (NDT contains T4, T3 and other thyroid output from a normal thyroid gland).
So to your query. I believe that if you start NDT you should start on a low dose but build up quite quickly. I didn't do this and felt unwell until the dose became appropriate. So first dose increase after 2 weeks and a blood test providing no problems. The reason for this is that the T3 kills your TSH. Your body thinks you have enough thyroid hormones so stops making any. As mentioned in another reply, with NDT you have to replace your thyroid production not supplement it. You will find this recommendation (fairly rapid dose increase) in several of the books about thyroid treatment. Of course TSH measurement is fairly useless in this treatment.
However thyroid treatment is usually for life and private treatment is expensive as is NDT (not surprising considering how its made). Some people do OK on T4 treatment alone and your GP will probably cooperate with prescribing levothyroxine.
Thank you for your reply and all the information ☺️
Hi, could you pm me details of the thyroid clinic you attend, please? My GP prescribes levothyroxine, which is useless on me, and steroids for the muscle pain, just causes additional problems. I've been self-medicating with Thyroid S with erratic results and would love to see a doctor that knew what they were talking about.
ThyroidFrazzled
Please dont ask for information about doctors in the group as this is prohibited in the group guidelines. Information about doctor recommendations has to be in a private message.
A post about 'me too'.
Me too please ! I'd be very grateful for the details of the thyroid clinic. I've been on Levothyroxine forever and am a poor T4 to T3 converter, and am quite symptomatic. I would very much like to give Armour a try.
Good morning from the USA. I've been on desiccated thyroid for over 10 years now. It used to be available via prescription but the FDA pulled their license making them reapply and as far as I know it still hasn't been reinstated. I see a functional medicine NP and have been able to get it compounded from a local holistic pharmacy. In between times I tried levo and the results were subpar. I tried Armour and had the same result. The desiccated thyroid seems to work best for me and even with half a thyroid have been steady on my levels. If you can get it I would highly recommend it.
Thank you ☺️
NDT UK or in US DTE is Pig Thyroid. It is made up of Thyroid extract. The ratio is different for humans and pigs but I have been using it for years and I have no thyroid.
If people take Levo i.e. T4 it has to convert to T3 in the body. Some people get on well with just Levo and convert well, others don't for various reasons and feel unwell.
Thyroid NDT give you T4 and T3. It's slightly complicated I am not very good at explaining it.
I buy Thyroid s NDT which is from Thailand and is a lower cost option than Armour made in the US.
The ratios of the hormones within a thyroid are different to the ratios of the hormones in bloodstreams.
The ratio of T4:T3 within a porcine thyroid is approximately 4.2:1.
But the ratios we see regarding humans is the T4:T3 ratio in blood tests.
We simply do not normally see the ratios of the hormones in porcine blood - nor the ratios in human thyroid glands. And any comparison is back to the old apples and oranges - they are different.
Occasionally we do see pig blood numbers!
These show numbers in units of mass (micrograms or nanograms) whereas UK measurements are molar units. That affects the calculation of the ratios.
You can download the paper from here:
researchgate.net/publicatio...
Thyroid hormone levels in pig blood
My father was a pig farmer so yes we are slightly different. Thank you anyway.
I've seen this quoted so many times by endos as the reason why you should not take NDT. However for those who don't convert well the higher t3 content is what we need. These doctors have worked out some of us need liothyronine added in due to this problem.....but can't see this also applies to ndt!! Of course if the T3 content is to high for you it will be too much & ull end up with adding some levo in so the ratio is lowered or the other way adding liothyronine in if you need a high ratio still due to even poorer conversion. I dont understand why ndt is so condemned by the medical profession!!
I have no issue at all with some people needing more (or less) T3.
Trouble is that what is often said is that the 4.2:1 ratio found in porcine desiccated thyroid is not the same as humans.
But the ratio of the amounts we take is not the same as the ratio of the amounts in our blood.
If we take into account that T3 has a shorter half-life, then it doesn't accumulate as much as T4. Therefore, taking a 4.2:1 ratio every day actually sees the ratio in our blood drop day by day. If we took T3 as having a two-day half-life, and T4 having a seven day half-life, then the ratio would be more than 6:1 by the end of a week.
I love ure explanations Helvella. 😍I think Endocrinology has lost its way in many respects with regards to treatment for hypothyroidism. I've watch the situation worsen in the 20yrs I've been diagnosed. Back then I thought it was bad but now......😮😮😮
I think Thyroid S from Thailand is bovine not porcine.
Thyroid S is porcine.
It's Porcine I have been using in for nine years.
it’s Porcine I’m glad to say. I wouldn’t touch a bovine product
hi there,
I have been on NDT for 3 months now and feel way better. I’m on 15mg ERFA and I feel more like my old self than I have in years! I still have some symptoms as I have other related health problems but I say it’s definitely worth investing further. Good luck!
Thank you ☺️
I was on NDT for a good few years and probably felt my best when it was good, but during Covid it became harder to come by and that was what was left to get. I used to be on WP Thyroid, but it was quite expensive so i tried the same pharma companies cheaper version (i forget the name, brain fog..).
It worked well...until it didn't, causing me severe hyper symptoms. The company said they hadn't changed anything but not long after both were withdrawn from sale. I went over to Thailand NDTS, using Thiroid for a while and it was good, though not as good as the previous when they worked.
But then covid hit and Thiroid stopped being made. and never started up again. I never did well on Thyroid S and now i've heard that has changed and not for the better.
I cant afford Armor as i've always self sourced. but i've heard mixed reactions to Armor too, and at the price it is, im not willing to risk it
If there was a good NDT on the market i'd be tempted to try it, but as it is i do have an endo who prescribes me T3. So i don't want to risk losing that.
It's definitely not better than levo, but some people feel better on it and can only do NDT. Other people don't feel better and need to take levo, or levo and synthetic T3. It's all a matter of trial and error to see what works for you based on blood tests and symptoms.
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