Basal Temperatures and Thyroid Health

[Benos123]

THYROID BLOOD TEST RESULTS

These are my latest Thyroid blood test results and which I had done privately (fasting/early am & no biotin for the previous 10 days) as the public health system here will not test all 5 elements at any one time;

TSH 0.537 mIU/l (0.35 - 5.5)

FT4 17.90 pmol/l (11.9 - 21.6)

FT3 5.13 pmol/l (3.1 - 6.8)

Anti -TPO 10.9 kU/l (less than 34 optimal - greater than 34 high)

Anti-Tg 18.5 IU/ml (less than 115 optimal - greater than 115 high)

Note: Back in 2004, I was under the care of the late Dr Peatfield in the UK and who treated me on the basis of my basal temperatures and whilst liaising with my GP here in Ireland. The Eltroxin (Ft4) plus glandular supports were most effective and my basal temperature had recovered to normal levels within 12 months. I continued on the Eltroxin until 2009 and even though I had to stop taking it before going into hospital for a hip operation, the positive effects lingered on until 2014 and until I noticed the gradual deterioration in my basal temperatures and which I had continued to record daily. However and in the interim, my GP had been replaced and the new doctor was not prepared to treat my symptoms and was still sticking to the guidelines even though my children used to call the Eltroxin "Daddy's Happy Pills"!

To this day, my basal temperatures are mostly in the range of 35.8 to 36.1 and I still have the feeling that all is still not quite right in my thyroid land!

I would welcome any constructive comments and advice. (22 Aug 2024 pm)

Note: The following members are tagged as they made an initial response to a post of mine last Friday and titled "Almost 40 years of complexity and no end in sight?". Soon after I lost access to my account when I tried adding this thyroid history as a reply to my initial post. Btw HU staff are investigating and it's at their request that I'm now trying to post this!

helvella SlowDragon TiggerMe Jazzw arTistapple nightingale-56

[Benos123]

mstp

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Welcome back... so your levels are on the low side if treating but would be considered euthyroid

TSH 0.537 mIU/L (0.35 - 5.5) 3.6%

Free T4 (fT4) 17.9 pmol/L (11.9 - 21.6) 61.9%

Free T3 (fT3) 5.13 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 54.9%

T4:T3 Ratio 3.489 

How much Eltroxin were you on?

[Benos123 in reply to TiggerMe]

My apologies as I've only just seen the ? at the end and at least the answer is brief, in that I've had no Eltroxin since 2009 and tbh I felt I didn't need it until 2014, but by then my understanding GP had retired and his replacement has refused to play ball ever since!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Benos123]

Just a little intrigued as to what dose he had you on, if it were a full replacement dose?

[Benos123 in reply to TiggerMe]

I started back on 50 micrograms in Feb 2005 and by Oct 2005 I was oscillating between 100 and 75 after first reaching the 150 mark. Please note that at the same time I was also on both Nutri Thyroid (which I never felt did me any good) and Nutri Adrenal Extra or Nutri Adrenal 80 which seemed much more effective.

Btw I was also on DHEA for a while but that was stopped for fear of Prostate issues!

[SlowDragon Administrator]

These tests ….you’re not currently on any replacement thyroid hormones?

You need vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin levels tested

[Benos123 in reply to SlowDragon]

My thanks for your reply and I have not been on any replacement thyroid hormones since 2009.

I had my last general blood tests on 28 May 2024 and when the ones you mentioned were are as follows:

Vit D 66 nmol/L - adequate - I take 2000i.u daily since 2014

Folate 15.8 ng/ml- (3.1-20) - This had increased from 11 in March 2024 as I started taking Iron tablets on 13 April 2024 .

B12 732 ng/L - (140-844) - I take 1000ug daily since 2014

Ferritin 84 ng/ml - (24-330) - This had increased from 66 in March 2024 as I started taking Iron tablets on 13 April 2024 .

The iron tablets I take are Ferrograd C - 325mg / 500mg prolonged release tablets and each tablet provides 105mg of elemental iron.

My next general blood tests are scheduled for next Thursday 29 August 2024 at 9am and if there any particular ones that would be of interest to you, then please let me know.

I don't know whether it's relevant or not but I have been on daily Prednisolone since getting PMR in 2019. My present dose is 7mgs and I've ranged between 30mgs & 5mgs during various flares & tapers!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Benos123]

So your Vit D is very low, ideally 100-150 you can take a loading dose to boost this and then reduce to a maintenance dose which for many is 3000-5000 depending on season... grassrootshealth.net/projec...

A sublingual like Nature Provides is very effective and also contains K2, also add some magnesium as this helps uptake

[Benos123 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks for your reply and I will now certainly up my daily dose.

FYI, my Vit D level since 2018 has always been in the range of 54-88 and as this is what my blood test reports state, my GP here in Ireland is not interested as it's "in range"

25-OH Vitamin D 66 nmol/L

Vitamin D Reference Range:

<25 nmol/L: Deficient

25-50 nmol/L: Insufficient

50-75 nmol/L: Adequate

>75 nmol/L: Optimal

>125 nmol/L: Risk of excess

This does not just apply to my Vit D result but all the others as well.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Benos123]

Yep the general rule is they don't even mention it let alone offer treatment unless you are deficient and even then they might ignore it 😕

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Benos123]

prednisolone will frequently lower/suppress TSH so it’s essential to test Ft4 and Ft3

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/114...

[Benos123 in reply to SlowDragon]

My thanks for your reply and it'll be to see my interesting to see my GP's reaction when I show her the NCBI info .

However, over here in Ireland they mostly rely on testing TSH & FT4 and they rarely test FT3 and the antibodies as well.

For example, and on looking back over my blood test data, it shows that my FT3 was only tested twice in the ten thyroid blood tests I had in the period from 2018 - 2024 and unfortunately many of the Endo's follow suit, if bloods are in range!

And that is why I got all five elements tested privately on 12 July 2024 and those results are posted above!

[Benos123 in reply to SlowDragon]

As I do not know whether the following blood test results show that everything is rosy in the garden or not, can I impose upon you for a summary of my Thyroid health & those Vitamins levels?

TSH 0.537 mIU/l (0.35 - 5.5)

FT4 17.90 pmol/l (11.9 - 21.6)

FT3 5.13 pmol/l (3.1 - 6.8)

Anti -TPO 10.9 kU/l (less than 34 optimal - greater than 34 high)

Anti-Tg 18.5 IU/ml (less than 115 optimal - greater than 115 high)

Vit D 66 nmol/L - adequate - I take 2000i.u daily since 2014

Folate 15.8 ng/ml- (3.1-20) - This had increased from 11 in March 2024 as I started taking Iron tablets on 13 April 2024 .

B12 732 ng/L - (140-844) - I take 1000ug daily since 2014

Ferritin 84 ng/ml - (24-330) - This had increased from 66 in March 2024 as I started taking Iron tablets on 13 April 2024

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Benos123]

Free T4 (fT4) 17.9 pmol/L (11.9 - 21.6) 61.9%

Free T3 (fT3) 5.13 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 54.9%

These look pretty normal for someone not on replacement thyroid hormone

But prednisolone may be lowering TSH

Vitamin D, may be better nearer 100-125nmol

[Benos123 in reply to SlowDragon]

My thanks for your reply and once I have my 3 monthly general blood tests taken on Thursday next I shall increase my Vitamin D dosage until the next blood tests in three months.

As my GP has not up to now being willing to prescribe Eltroxin for me as my thyroid bloods are seemingly all in range and which would improve my TSH levels, can you suggest any alternatives and/or arguments in addition to the side effect of prednisolone that I might be able to put to the GP and which may cause a re-think?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Benos123]

Your Ft4 and Ft3 seem to be at good level

Unlikely to get any medic to prescribe

[caledoniancat]

Not sure if it is of any help because believe Ft3 and Ft4 are the more important test results, but glucocorticoids are known to suppress TSH.DRUGS THAT SUPPRESS TSH OR CAUSE CENTRAL HYPOTHYROIDISM - PMC

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

[Benos123 in reply to caledoniancat]

Thanks for your reply and may I refer you to my latest post to SlowDragon above.

[caledoniancat in reply to Benos123]

Hi Benos123, my post was mostly to make you aware that your TSH results may be affected by your prednisolone which I believe is a corticosteroid.

[Benos123 in reply to caledoniancat]

Thanks for your reply and my apologies for any confusion. I understood the points you were making but part of your post was the same as SlowDragon's mention of TSH suppression and as my reply had already explained to SlowDragon that they seldom or ever test FT3 here in Ireland, that's why I referred you as otherwise it would have just been a further duplication of effort!

[Karen-Eleanor]

Just wondering why you stopped medication before your hip operation. Thyroid meds are normally needed for life - which is why they are free.

[Benos123 in reply to Karen-Eleanor]

Thanks for your reply and whilst I have often asked myself the same question, I would do the same thing again as my intentions were honourable!

Back in 2004 I made contact with the late Dr Peatfield in the UK and he agreed to advise me and my GP here in Ireland, at the time, on how I should be treated with Eltroxin and based on my daily Basal Temps.

Within two months or so, my symptoms were improving and when I was referred to a Consultant on account of the various exploratory scopes I'd had already undergone, he threw his toys out of the pram and threatened to report my GP for the inappropriate prescribing of Eltroxin to me, as my bloods were all "in range").

About three months later my GP said that he was not prepared to see me deteriorating so fast again and he started prescribing the Eletroxin again and this we managed with advice & guidance from Dr Peatfield right up to 2009 and my basal temperatures had recovered to normal.

As I then had to go into hospital for a hip replacement I stopped taking the Eltroxin for fear it might be noticed and/or detected and my GP might be in trouble from some other jobsworth.

I felt good until 2014 when I again started feeling rough and noticed that my basal temps were again dropping. Unfortunately my GP had since retired and his replacement has just just not played ball to this day!

Note: I have continued to record my daily basal temperatures and they are usually in the range of 35.8 to 36.2.

[Polly91]

I am the least expert of all the repliers (is that a word?!) but for what it’s worth if your temp is below 36.5 you are likely to be under replaced (hypo). Thats what I notice with me. I feel best when temp is >36.4

have you considered increasing your thyroid replacement drug/hormone? Might help.

Hope you can get some help- being hypo is horrible & linked to so many other issues like hypertension, reduced kidney function etc.

[Benos123]

Thanks for your reply and I love the use of the word REPLIERS and I agree that one feels better when the body temp is much nearer normal.

However mine has not been that way for the past ten years and which coincides with the time period that my GP will not prescribe a thyroid replacement drug named Eltroxin, as they reckon my Thyroid Blood Test results are all within range!

Oh and yes I also suffer from both Hypertension and Chronic Kidney Disease amongst many other things! ! LOLS

[Benos123 in reply to Benos123]

This is the wording of a post I had difficulty in making last week and it spells out the background to my situation.

ALMOST FORTY YEARS OF COMPLEXITY AND NO END IN SIGHT?

In Feb 1987, I returned to the UK after a 3 year posting in Cyprus and we were accommodated in married quarters on a nearby former USAF base. About 6 months later, and without any warning my symptoms of tiredness and general malaise started. I was prescribed an iron tonic, which eventually I was drinking from the bottle, but the only effect it had on me was constipation. Then in 1988, we moved home to the base where I was stationed & worked, and by the autumn time all my symptoms had disappeared just as suddenly as they had come.

There has never been a definitive diagnosis and the best the medics at that time could do was to label it as Post Viral Effects and suggest that it was akin to a sub-clinical attack of hepatitis sometime in the previous year of 1986. They cautioned that it was likely to recur in the future and it did roughly every four or five years with the first being in 1993.

Note: I was a fit as a fiddle in those Cyprus days and I never had any prior symptoms of any sort.

Then in the 2000 and after re-settling to Ireland four years earlier, it all started and the following is a list of the more serious illnesses I've had: Bell’s Palsy, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Hypothyroidism (diagnosed by Dr Peatfield), Small Cell Vasculitis, COPD, Liver Function Test Hep C false negative concerns, Hypertension, A Fib, BPH (and a very vascular prostate), Tremor, Genital Vitiligo, GERD, Polymyalgia, Dermatitis, Eczema, Sleep Apnoea, Asthma, Eyesight issues, CKD, Secondary PTH, Template Biopsies of Prostate.

Note: I have seen doctors and consultants for nearly all of the above and whilst they all agreed that I have a complex medical history, they nearly all said that as I have so much going on with me, that they would all just concentrate on their own specialities and look where that has gotten me!

For many years I had suspected that my over exposure to toxic chemical & solvents was a contributory factor and then in 2011, it was disclosed in the UK press that a number of USAF bases in the UK had suffered with contaminated ground water and one of those was the base where I first got sick in 1987. The main culprit is a solvent called Trichloroethylene (aka TCE) and recently there was an appeal on BBC1 breakfast television for similarly effected UK servicemen & women and who served at Camp Leguine in the USA to come forward.

Earlier this year, and as I waited for and faced into yet another annual iron infusion, the benefits of which were always short lived, my GP prescribed a daily dose of iron tablets as an interim measure on 13 April 2024 and whilst my ferritin level and which at times has been as low as single figures, has already increased from 50 to 85, I haven't felt as good in years! I have since seen a Consultant Haematologist and as she reviewed my historical blood test results data I had prepared, she said, "My God you should have been on Iron tablets for years"!

To address my diet, it has been developed over the past 45 years, it is very stable with plenty of red meat, chicken & pork most days along with mostly wholemeal breads, loads of standard vegetables and the odd glass of red.

I would welcome any constructive comments and advice.

[nightingale-56]

Hi Benos123 , like TiggerMe , I feel your levels are a little low and you really need to be on medication. Your basal temperature is low and I feel you should be on Levothyroxine. I was also under Dr Peatfield's care for a while and the Nutri supplements did not suit me either. His care certainly improved me though.

Ferritin and Folate seem adequate, but I would raise the Vit D to 100-150, adding Vit K2, plus Magnesium. It would be better to have a Vit B12 Active Test done, but am pretty sure NHS will not do this and it will have to be done privately. Bear in mind that Vit B12 serum should not be below 500 or damage could be done to the spinal cord. Wish you well.

[Benos123]

Thanks for your reply and if the NHS will not do an Active B12 test, then there's no hope for me here in Ireland as the only time they will test it is when one's B12 is almost on the floor! Lols!

Back in April 2021, my b12 was down at 387 and by doubling my daily dose to 2000ug, it recovered to 1208 by August 2021 and tbh that was a cause of more concern than any deficiency would be! My plan, and now that I'm having routine 3 monthly blood tests, is to keep it between the 800 & 1000 level. I've been taking Magnesium for years and my present daily dose is at 500MGs and which equates to a 133% EC nutrient reference value.

As my overall problem is that as many of my symptoms are across numerous conditions, I tend to be cautious and try and avoid the chopping and changing when trying new things. I've tried taking K2 at least three times in the past and each time after a month or two I've stopped again as I just felt they were doing nothing positive for me. Note: Once I have my bloods tested again on Thurs I will be doubling my VIT D and re-introducing K2.

And then there is the "medical" opinion/input that just astounds me at times. As an example I had a Hair Mineral Analysis Test (HMTA) done and it showed my calcium was low. At the same time I was being "investigated" by an Infectious Diseases Consultant and who ridiculed the HMTA process as only being fit for Forensics and yet when his final report findings also highlighted concern for low calcium, he wouldn't still accept the HMTA and yet advised me to supplement with Calcium. Then within two months and after an MRI that also highlighted a need for more calcium, I was attending a Gastroenterologist and who, despite all of the above, put it in writing to my GP that under no circumstances should I be supplementing with Calcium.

Finally and getting back to my Thyroid, I feel I need Eltroxin if for no other reason than trying to tackle the low Basal Temps of the last 10 years, but they won't listen to my concerns and maintain that they can't prescribe any for me on the basis of my Thyroid blood test results!