Found a few papers which suggest they are linked and I wondered what the treatment is for Alzheimer's? Brother just been diagnosed but I know his fT3 is low and he doesn't convert T4 well
Anyone read much about Thyroid and Alzheimer's ... - Thyroid UK
Anyone read much about Thyroid and Alzheimer's connection?
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TiggerMe
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Yes agree I have long suspected thyroid plaques would cause this phenomenon- I went for years trying to get a diagnosis and lost my memory completely - I have found a connection to Parkinson Disease as well ie I noticed that family members having been diagnosed and receive hormone are ok - other family member isn’t diagnosed has PD - too much of a coincidence for me and there are research papers confirming this - endocrinology are doing us no favours in keeping us undiagnosed !
Hmm... I'd not seen my brother for years until last year and I instantly knew he was hypo so told him to get checked and sure enough... trouble is he was already to far gone to take it in and his wife wouldn't listen to his silly little Sister... just been told he's been diagnosed with early onset and wondered if they will now actually do anything about his low fT3 as levo wasn't working for him as it didn't for me 😕
RedAppleAdministrator
'a few papers which suggest they are linked '
Can you post some links for us?
We have had members come here saying they were told probably had alzheimers, but it was actually untreated / undertreated hypothyroidism.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/375... Primary Hypothyroidism and Alzheimer's Disease: A Tale of Two
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/384... Thyroid dysfunction and Alzheimer's disease, a vicious circle
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/369... The Role of Thyroid Dysfunction in Alzheimer's Disease: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Sorry to hear about your brother E.
I suffered terrible cognitive difficulties for years with unknown deficient thyroid hormone levels. The uneducated may throw their hands up in horror at our suggestions and have no idea of the essential role adequate thyroid hormones play in neurological health.
Maybe you could send those links to your brother and sister-in-law?
Thanks radd,
I really thought I had early onset after 4 years on T4 before I finally took things into my own hands as a last ditched attempt and thankfully found this forum and my way to enlightenment and T3...
I have tried to guide my Sil since and have forwarded these hoping at least she passes them on to their children which might spark some interest as daughter is in the health profession though is also NHS faithful🙄... but she insists NHS and Consultant Neurologists know best and treatment is my brothers decision (he doesn't want to talk about it!) he took early retirement 8 years ago (51) we had all been told as he'd been such a high flier it was his choice, turns out he couldn't write his computer programming manuals any more.... only started standard Hypo treatment last year (after I meet him and pointed out why he was acting like a goldfish) so he's had many more years of damage and still not optimally treated.
As her message was to say "after testing there is no genetic link which should concern us".... I have pointed out that I have a genetic thyroid issue which they should all look into
I have now at least achieved getting my younger sister on the right dose of T4 over the last year and she has just jumped through the hoops to finally get an NHS diagnosis and prescription...
Came across this post from Diogenes... healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
I had a friend whose grandfather was diagnosed with dementia. And as they explored the diagnosis and treatments, it turned out his symptoms were caused by his gluten intolerance.
Given the overlap in hypo and celiacs/gluten - I wonder if there aren’t more out there like my friend’s grandfather who are misdiagnosed.
It’s just one story but I know it’s true as it was a personal friend, but I’m open to all debunking if anyone’s heard of this.
It seems to be all about inflammation - starting with the gut brain connection. Dr David Perlmutter's book 'Grain Brain' is a good starting place. Also Dr Datis Kharrazian's book - 'Why isn't my Brain Working ?' Both have websites. Many Webinars of late are covering Brain Health. The spike protein can cross the blood/brain barrier....
Also low B12 can cause so many neurological symptoms including brain shrinkage. It seems low B12 goes hand in hand with thyroid issues too. Blocking cholesterol when the brain needs it also bothers me. As do drugs lowering blood pressure - if dose too high then oxygen to the brain can be hindered.... and so it goes on.
Time for a Functional Approach to health and the joining of dots ....
Would you say this is a better book to start with than Dale Bredesen‘s books? I see he has a couple out and would like to get my Mum one. She is terrified of following in her mother’s Alzheimer’s footsteps.
I have read both the books I mentioned but not DB's. Both are good. Dr Perlmutters is the easier read of the two. I also have his cookbook ! His son Austin following in his Dads' footsteps and features in Webinars.
Have you seen the video of B12 and Brain shrinkage ? Prof David Smith .
Thank you. No I haven’t! Will take a look 😀
Have posted a link further down... x
Great thanks!
Is it the Whole Life Plan or Surprising Truth book I need to get please? Dr David seems to have two similar ones, plus a cookbook?
There's Grain Brain and Brain Maker. I have read Grain Brain.
May I ask if having read it you don’t eat carbs either? I am gluten free, but do struggle with keto, which I presume is what he recommends if he says to avoid carbs?
I do eat some carbs - need to read the book again ! It was quite sometime ago !
absolutely. My mother and my brother had Hashimoto’s and were on T4 only. I think they, like me, didn’t convert and ended up with Alzheimer’s. When I started to experience cognitive impairment 15 years ago, I was prescribed T3 and T4 and my memory improved very quickly. That’s not to say I won’t get dementia, but I’d love someone to do the research on dementia, hypothyroidism and T4 mono therapy vs T4 aand T3.
Looking at the papers I've seen above they do know that people with Alzheimer's have low fT3 levels but from what I can see they don't use it as a treatment for them?
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/322...
B12 linked to cognitive decline too...
The Neurologist did at least start him on a loading dose of B12 last summer as I took him for the first one, which was just as well as the nurse was going to turn him away even though booked in and prescribed vials in hand for every other day jabs they said he didn't qualify 😵 it's all such a battle... hoorah for warrior sisters!!
A maintenance dose would be good. I self-inject B12 weekly. Also a GOOD B Complex to keep all the B's in balance....
I did at the time supply my Sil with all the right supplements, explanation and dosing with his current results and where they needed to be to optimise in the hope she might keep it up, she always said it was hard enough to get him to take the T4... I couldn't understand this as he was already at the point where his memory lasted all of 15 seconds and very happy to do anything he was asked
I know, it's so wrong. In human and financial terms, surely it is better to treat with T3 or to add T3 to T4 and potentially save so many people from dementia with all the pain that causes to the person and their carer! I just wish we could make a case for the research
I wish I was able to step in and self treat him but no chance of that 😕
Whilst living in Crete for 15 years I was able to buy both B12 and T3 OTC. So grown up !
Keeping us away from the freedom of choice in the UK smacks of control somewhere ? Prescribing drugs for all the symptoms of un/under treated B12 and thyroid is seemingly a financial win win 🌻
Does that mean you can no longer buy it over the counter there, or have you moved away?
I returned to the UK September 2019. My pals still there buy OTC.
That is interesting. My late grandmother had Alzheimer’s until she died at 96. I always suspected she had an underactive thyroid like me and half my family. She told me of the times she went to the doctor with unexplained weight gain and was told “your input is simply more than your output”. She never drove so walked a three mile round trip into town each day to food shop, and walked everywhere else she needed to go. That generation didn’t snack, she ate an healthy meat and veg dinner and she was always on the go, so shouldn’t have been overweight .
So I suspect she was undiagnosed. I wonder if that caused the Alzheimer’s then.
I do wish your brother well. It is frustrating when you see friends and family members suffering and you know you could potentially help. Sadly we have to let them get on with it or risk losing their friendship. It is a sorry tale and I do hope he listens, you’re very kind trying to help. I’d just give him the information and he’ll have to make his own mind up. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Thanks CC,
It is rather hard to un-see the connection once you have walked in our shoes...
The problem is my sister in law as my brother is already just a happy goldfish, we've never been close but when you know what would help it's frustrating, I just hope his kids look into it, I don't know if the diagnosis will mean he will just get the brush off from Endos now?
p.s. Pleased to see your FD is looking like a good one 🤗
Yes I know what you mean. I’m in the same boat with my bro! You can’t do much more without upsetting the sil. They can be as bad as the mil!
Yes thanks FD is ruddy brilliant and seems I’m heading your way in the health department 🤞🏽!
I've never been known for my tact 😏
That is such great news you finally have someone on your side, onwards and upwards... I'm on the last week of C25K 🏃♀️🥳
Brilliant well done you!
Dale Bredesen MD successfully reverses Alzheimer’s disease with his patients.
His website and books is perhaps worth a look?
This is what David Permuttee MD had to say about his work ……
Although the source of the quote “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result” has been questioned, its relevance to the pursuit of a single drug approach to Alzheimer’s disease is unquestionable. Sanity now prevails with Dr. Bredesen’s challenge to the status quo that may very well bring an end to Alzheimer’s disease.
I believe the above quote resonates with all in/ under treated thyroid patients.
Is it Bredesen ? Excellent guy !
Thanks Marx I’ve corrected the typo.
I was diagnosed with Alzheimers some 20 years ago whilst almost in myxoedema coma. It's taken me many years to get to the bottom of my hypothyroidism, it turns out that I have pituitary failure caused by a head injury and Endos have absolutely no idea how to treat it. After many battles I now take T3 along with replacement hormones for the the rest of my endocrine system but it is now clear that my Alzheimers is actually Metabolic dementia caused by years of mistreatment of my Endo system. So yes, dementia is definitely linked to problems with the endocrine system. Now I have treatment for my pituitary failure my dementia is not quite so bad but if I forget any medication, particularly the T3, the dementia is far more evident.Heather
Thank you heathermr for your valuable input.
Fascinating! So we really need Neuro's and Endo's to get their heads together, though Big Pharma won't be pleased if the answer is T3!!
So that’s cardio and neurology who should be very much speaking to endocrinology! I am certain other departments too need to be reminded of even the basics of endocrinology. In the past doctors seemed to be far more aware of the width and breadth of thyroid health. It’s there, or twenty years ago or so it was, the protocol to routinely do thyroid tests on cardio patients. Unless obviously bad they were ignored or unable to be understood due to the extremely clumsy instructions by endocrinology itself. Persons like Pearce ought to be hounded out of the profession, not kowtowed to.
I thought cardio were a little more T3 aware?
We see some cardiologist or other seeming to understand T3 - and other thyroid issues. They might be brilliant and really "get it".
But that sometimes get discussed as if ALL cardios are aware and good. They are not.
Nah! I wish.
Don’t forget gastro and Ear Nose and Throat, they were very pro T3 levels for optimal gut behaviours.
Hi Heathermr, can I ask what treatment you received for the pituitary failure?
I am now on T3 only as T4 makes me very ill, plus hydrocortisone, growth hormone, oestrogen patches and testosterone gel. It's been very difficult to get the right balance between all of these but I do seem to need a very large dose of T3. The symptoms of dementia start up again as well as hypothyroidism if I take less than 100 mcg of T3. I did read an article by Canadian Thyroid Association who said that patients like me without any TSH or T4 do need larger doses of T3 but I am not sure why.Heather
TiggerMe it’s about time someone brought this issue up on the Forum. A chance to air and discuss this very frightening matter for any (and all) of us who suffer brain fog and memory issues etc.
Just yet another shocking factor of negligence in the care and treatment of hypothyroidism.
The arbitrary decision to take the elderly off their thyroid medication because it’s deemed they don’t need it any more, will no doubt hugely increase costs to country, communities and families.
I quote my friend and her Mother in the USA (again) who was just taken off her thyroid medication (the system Professor Simon Pearce is pushing for in the UK) without a word to anyone and unnoticed until she started suffering ill health in every way, not just dementia.
You do wonder why treatments like T3 and medicinal cannabis are so reviled when they seem to have very few side effects and are obviously greatly beneficial to so many 🤷♀️
Thank you for posting this @TiggerMe. This is really interesting to me, as I lost my father to Alzheimer's a few years ago and a year later getting a diagnosis for hashimoto's myself, I kept relating back to symptoms my father had that I was going through. I was sure he had undiagnosed hashimoto's. This subject really does need further investigation by medical professionals!
This website may be of interest. foodforthebrain.org/prevent...
There was a video link on the forum recently for a meeting that the Thyroid Trust had with Paul Jenkins ,( the London Endo that Liam Gallacher of Oasis saw about his thyroid nodules) as guest speaker. I think he said that dementia (think Alzheimers would be inter changeable ) is reversible with thyroid hormones.
Edit: I had dementia symptoms in 2013 when I discovered I had a B12 deficiency, and folate only 0.1 into the range. So , IF he'll listen to you , he needs to look at his b12 and folate.
Great thanks, I've found this link which is worth a go as he mentions reversible dementia... youtube.com/watch?v=g_WNKop...
Yes, that's the one. Very encouraging that he says it is reversible!
Watching The Piano on TV last night I couldn't help thinking the winner of the Manchester round was a B12D sufferer. He seemed to struggle with balance when descending steps - so is it just his 'dementia?' B12 Deficiency is a neurological condition. Check out symptoms in the link below...the first ones are neurological.
The mechanism you are looking for which causes Alzheimers/Dementia is low T3 , reversible or helped by thyroid hormone T3, especially if we have bad conversion of T4 toT3. It is high Prolactin which seems always to be high when hypothyroid, which can cause demyelination. You and I , I think, have the wonky genetic signalling thyroid genetics, and DIO mutations. I can't give the references for the following, as there is barely any mention of this on the internet. I did take notes a few years ago that T3 and methylcobalamin B12 are supposedly useful for remyelination. My brain M.R.I. shows some white matter changes which I think is vascular disease of myelin, white matter in the brain. This probably causes bad signalling. I believe I have Central Hypothyroidism, per my blood results. I read somewhere?? that the outer membrane of the pituitary is myelin. Prolactin is stimulated by TRH, and I have noted that to remyelinate, the hypothalamus and pituitary like lots of vitamin B12, in the form of methylcobalamin. It is needed for synthesis of myelin.
It is myelin which is problematic in M.S. There was a post from a member some time ago, who had suspected M.S. and I replied to that with some references. I think it may have been a study done in Israel which linked low ferritin and high Prolactin to M.S. I can't remember who the member was, but she was taking out a subscription to a site which looked as if had research information re. the connection of Prolactin and demyelination.
Yes, Dr Chandy talked of central hypo being caused by low B12 affecting myelin outer of pituitary - signalling therefore misfiring, sometimes leading to hyper but more commonly hypo. The B12 doesn't have to be in the form of methylcobalamin, which some cannot tolerate, but you do need enough B12 along with cofactors and oral may not be able to do the job. Best to test in case B12 actually low and then push for injections, bearing in mind that we do not have any tests that can actually rule out a B12 deficiency for certain.
Interesting... yes well remembered 🌟 I've the wonky gene but strangely my Sil is a bit anti private testing 😕but I've seen his thyroid results and he to is a very poor converter.
She seems utterly resistant to the reality that it is his thyroid causing/ adding to this diagnosis even though I've explained how I've crawled my way back from this same decline by adding T3... she just can't believe that all of our combined lived experience is more knowledgeable than a medic!
I having been reading with great interest (Wua13262348 here) your previous posts and your great successes. I think you said you did an OATS test and were low in glutathionine and maybe a few other amino acids. I would dearly like to know my glutathionine level, but do know that I am deficient in Glutamine (minus 0.36%), which is a pre-cursor of Glutathionine. I expect that I do not make Glutathionine, but make Taurine instead (90.24%) I am also deficient in Arginine (minus 1.42%), despite my diet being full of it. Was your Arginine deficient or low? Your G&G amino acids product looks a marvellous product. I considered supplementing with it, but according to Izabella Wentz, cysteine (which it contains) is contra-indicated for me. If you ever want to check your levels of the amino acids you are supplementing , in the future, you can check 19 of the 20 amino acids (not cysteine) with a Cerascreen Amino Acid test at £59.90.
Do you know if your Selenium is over-range? Regenallotment I have up-regulated Selenium. I have tagged Regenallotment as I think she said in a post that she does too. Like me , Regenallotment has problems with foods which break down to Sulphur, though I don't know if she is aware of this being probably connected to her up-regulated Selenium. I have a double CBS mutation. Izabella Wentz states if she could supplement only one amino acid it would be NAC(cysteine), BUT not if you have a CBS mutation.
If you and/or Regenallotment have your genetics from Ancestry.com have a look and see if you have a CBS mutation. As you will be aware, Selenium has a profound effect on conversion of T4 to T3. I think it was Bertwills who recently gave a very, very interesting link to a HealthRising article, where it referred to recent findings of a SelenoP????? antibody. Currently it can only be tested in a German Lab for residents of Germany.
The DIOs are Selenocysteines.
The CBS mutation is also is to do with the Methylation Pathway, (and transsulphuration /liver pathway) and it is methylation which turns genes off and on, largely by way of folate and b12. So we are back to Dementia/Alzheimers, which implicates problems with folate and the need for methylcobalamin b12.
CBS mutation is a possible rabbit -hole to go down as part of the puzzle. Oh , forgot to say- Izabella Wentz says a CBS mutation will give you an under-active thyroid AND you will lose B12 too fast. Wish I understood it better, but a bit too complex for me to understand! She doesn't explain how this happens, unfortunately!!!
I'm going to have to give this a thorough read later 😵🤗 had a quick look but I've not had my CBS gene tested... but do have a genetic pre-disposition for low glutathione production... you might like the link on this thread added by 🍄 (Helvella) amino acid content in beans... healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Wua13262348
CBS gene is used within the trans-sulphuration pathway, involving the transfer of sulfur from homocysteine to cysteine (via cystathionine). Its the only route for biosynthesis of cysteine.
If you have a methylation report you can see whether your gene is up/down/normally regulated.
Here's a sample. Look on page 5 - static1.squarespace.com/sta...
Sorry Wua13262348 it takes me a couple of rainy days to re-ingest all the science and results I just can't store it all... radd is my go to for the tricky bits... she even understands it all!!
Well, that is not true in the least E but thank you for thinking it.
Gene mutations don’t always result in impactful changes to the enzymes function, and don’t forget you can’t treat each impairment as an isolated issue but consider them as a whole as they influence each other.
I’ve had a think and its come back to me - the CBS gene is up-regulated by certain environmental factors including mould which I am detoxing at the moment (but not very well as keep being distracted with other life’s pressing matters 🙄- think I’m gonna re-read Dirty Genes on the stairmaster 🏃♂️😁).
Anyway, if I remember correctly you previously had high levels of oxalates? and this too will up-regulate the CBS activity. Other more usual things are zinc, high SAM, high methionine, low glutathione, etc.
Factors that slow CBS activity are testosterone, high glutathione, low methionine (from protein so likely you as your veggie) and SAM. Also if you have mutations on the MTHFR gene (you).
Then you put all these written factors in a hat, mix them around and pull out answer 🤣, coz I really haven't a clue. I was directed by a practitioner as the whole picture must be considered regarding what changes would be beneficial.
I do seem to remember I plumped for L-Glutathione as it is made up of cysteine, glutamate and glycine and with good Vit C levels to help regenerate the glutathione, that and a bit of TUDCA has made for much happier liver results
Wua13262348,
'The DIOs are selenocysteines'.
Yes, and another peroxidase enzyme like glutathione. Selenoproteins contain selenocysteine, formed when selenium is incorporated by replacement of oxygen into serine (like cysteine except selenium is replacing the sulphur atom). Selenium is used for biosynthesis of selenoproteins and why the forum advocates its supplementation.
'SelenoP????? antibody'
Selenium has also been proven to reduce TPOAb's and so has some control over autoimmunity. Selenoprotein P is the selenium transporter that requires selenium for its biosynthesis as well as healthy kidney and liver function where other components are made. It is being researched as Selenoprotein P autoantibodies have been found in people with Hashimotos.
It is known that TPOAb has adverse effects on the immune system besides beneficially mopping up leaked thyroid peroxidase, and the heightened part of the immune system is the same as in some other autoimmune conditions. Patients with elevated TPOAb's and slowed renal/hepatic function due to low thyroid hormones are likely selenium deficient which is thought may induce autoantibodies to the selenium transporter resulting in impaired transport and decreased thyroid hormone production/conversions, all of which are selenium dependant.
I wonder if this is yet another aspect driving the whole autoimmune cycle where once we're involved, it can be difficult to control unless triggers are managed. I know I was selenium (and zinc) deficient when diagnosed hypo and felt so much better after optimising levels.
Cripes no Cognitive function concerns there Wua13262348 and radd 🤓
Selenium was over range after high strength supplements for around 9months. GP tested, slightly over range, no symptoms, I stopped supplement and in 12 weeks was back in normal range.
Only occasional Brazil nuts nowadays.
I too have a T3 cognitive improvement story. Although could also be in combination with raising vits, ferritin and zinc etc
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