adrenal-thyroid connection?

[cc120]

I would appreciate comments regarding the following article:

drlam.com/blog/adrenal-fati...

which outlines the need to address adrenal fatigue which will have caused hypothyrodism symptoms.

[vajra]

Hi CC. I've been looking at this topic as a result of my personal situation (see my other topics) - i've a long standing tendency to high cortisol. I'm no doctor though, so this is a layman's description of what may happen.

I've been posting recently on information that pops up all over the place that shows that high cortisol/exaggerated stress responses can be the first cause of many cases of secondary hypothyroidism - as a result of less T3 being produced, and more T3 being reversed. This among other effects seemingly shuts down parts of gut function, compromises absorbtion of key minerals, and sets the body into a high energy usage/sugar metabolism/stress response mode.

The piece you linked sets out how adrenal fatigue/low cortisol causes secondary hypothyroidism - also by producing less T3 and reversing more T3 to rest/balance the body and its systems when adrenal output/cortisol is low.

Both scenarios seem largely to be part of the same coin, and both if sustained longer term seem to lead to gut and subsequent auto immune issues - leading to the sorts of illnesses (Hashimotos, Graves and worse) that we see posted of here all the time.

Put more holistically - there's an optimum level of adrenal output which results (presuming all else is equal - there are unrelated possibilities) in correct functioning of the thyroid metabolism.

Chronic stress and eventually the associated learned exaggerated stress responses it seems progress through a well reconised sequence of stages.

Stress initally produces a raised cortisol output, with the above effects.

Short term this is natural and no problem, but longer term because it shuts down parts of the thyroid metabolism as above it leads to the sorts of illnesses described.

Longer term still and the adrenals become exhausted - this is serious end stage adrenal fatigue which if full blown is life threatening and likely see a person bed ridden.

Before this situation is reached it seems that it's characteristic to see adrenal output become unstable, and to become disconnected from the normal diurnal/day/night/sleep cycle. When the glands are capable the output of cortisol etc is very high in response to the perceived stress (this can be at night - leading to sleep problems), but at other times very low leading to energy slumps and extreme tiredness and low energy.

My own experience suggests that (since the two systems interact) that it can be very hard to separate adrenal from thyroid issues. The one basic though is that both systems need to be in good shape for us to feel well, and that if either is out of whack that we will experience (very similar feeling) problems.

This manual (Mastering Your Life) sets out a typical view on the stages in the development of adrenal stress and exaggerated stress responses, how it causes chronic fatigue and hypothyroidism, and how it's treated: clymer-healing.myshopify.co... There's another patient's story of a being treated in a similar manner by another doc here: medicinegarden.com/2011/02/...

I've been posting quite a bit on the topic of high cortisol and exaggerated stress responses in an attempt to raise awareness of the linkages between the two areas. (thyroid and adrenals) It's been well recognised that adrenal function must be sorted for the thyroid to function well, and that adrenal fatigue must be addressed - but perhaps less so just how commonly the underlying cause and how big an issue chronic stress, high cortisol and learned/exaggerated stress responses can be.

Also that as above there seem to be methods available for the treatment and/or re-programming of both scenarios which in fact are both likely consequences of adrenal issues resulting from chronic stress.

It's easy to get bogged down endlessly changing thyroid replacement doses, but this (as in my own case) can become a form of tunnel vision. In that other factors (such as my high cortisol/axaggerated stress responses - but also low) can cause very similar effects (actual hypothyroidism as above) and be mistaken for less than optimum thyroid replacement.

I'm just a few months in to working on my cortisol, but so far seem to have benefited enormously (see my other post updating progress) from following the sort of course of treatment outlined above...

ian

[Angel_of_the_North]

My cortisol is on the low side - not as bad as it once was, but not great. Oddly, that seems to give hyper-like symptoms, when you definitely aren't hyper: clumsiness, shaky hands, sweats, fatigue, diarrhea, nausea, loss of appetite and sometimes weight loss - but with low BP and temperature.

i still haven't really cracked it. most of the time now, I feel fine, just tired, but some days it just all goes wrong and I can never work out what I did just before to cause it.

[Hidden in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Hi Angel of the North,

I have all of those symptoms. My total cortisol was 15.3 when it was tested in May. Having a Short Synacthen test tomorrow, but not expecting it to reveal anything much. A really annoying symptom I have is anal fissures, I have read there is a link, I think all the years of quite dreadful diarrhoea hasn't helped. My endo says low cortisol doesn't give you diarrhoea, but I firmly believe it does. Do you get painful calves and feet? I get awful anxiety, I sweat so much my hair gets wet. The shakes are getting worse, often hard to write. What have you done to try and build up your cortisol?

On my endo's advice I have drastically cut my meds, but just got worse. My temps are much lower since the cut too. It's just so hard to find anyone in the NHS who takes any of this seriously, or has the knowledge to help.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Hidden]

I used get painful feet, but not any more. In the am I have lemon juice, salt, zeolites and MSM (about a pint). I take 2 nutri adrenal (used to be more) and a little T3 at about 5 am. Plus 20 mins TM (meditation) twice a day. I also have DHEA on prescription (not NHS).

My total daily cortisol acc to the Geneva tests is 26 and follows the correct pattern, just at the bottom of the normal range.

I used to be too high at night and took Seriphos, but now that's OK.

I sometimes take ashwaghanda in the am as well.

Years ago I "failed" the short synacthen test. That just meant I got sent for an insulin stress test. Although that made me collapse in the street afterwards, it was "normal" and nothing was ever done. It's taken about 20 years of job change, taking it easy, sleeping in the late afternoon and finally hormone replacement to get where I am now.

But generally it's getting better.

[Hidden in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Hi Angel of the North, i can see you've been really proactive with the way you've had to come up with a plan to treat yourself.

I find it hard to get enough vit C in as i have a painful bladder disease and haven't been able to eat much fruit. This last year i've been able to eat mango and sweet apples, but no citrus. Vit C tablets were burning my bladder so i'm now on non acidic vit C.

I would do anything for the leg and foot pain to go, in the 7th year of that. I've been hypo undiagnosed for over 20 years so that doesn't help.

I will definitely look into what you're using. I'm expecting to self medicate!

Thank you so much for the very helpful info.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Hidden]

I don't take any vit c. I take the lemon juice (half a lemon a day) and eat a handful of berries at breakfast but that's all. Sometimes I add camu camu powder to the lemon juice - it tastes like bitter oranges and has vit c in it. I'm not supposed to take supplemental vit c for reasons that would take too long to explain.

I do eat a lot of veg as I am almost vegan.

[Hidden in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Hi again, yes i understand the lemon is a Vit C boost. I would prefer citrus to a supplement but citrus would cause intense pain for me with my bladder lining being cracked and it bleeds. It would be like putting vinegar on a mouth ulcer. I do eat a lot of veggies though.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Hidden]

I don't take it for vit C, but for the other healthy compounds in lemons. Also one lemon in 2 litres of water buffered with MSM and sea salt is not at all acidic. If you have a citrus allergy, that's another matter of course.

[Hidden in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Hi Angel ofthe North, i have interstitial cystitis and can only tolerate still mineral water red bush tea (no acid or caffeine) and milk. It's a pain to be very restricted in food and drinks. I had the synacthen test on Monday and i'm still in pain from tbe tiny bit if acetic acid in the injection. I know it's hard for people to understand but i've had this for 10 years. I'm glad you've found things that are working well for you.

I'm still trying to source a sublingual B12 without fruit flavouring. I tried some but had to give up as they caused a lot of pain.

My bladder lining is cracked and bleeds. The slightest bit of acidity is like putting vinegar on a mouth ulcer. The pain at it's lowest level is a burning heavy perid type pain, at it's worst it's on a level with childbirth and goes on for days. You can see why i have to be very careful.

[cc120]

Hi Ian/Vajra - thank you so much for your input here. After reading through your links and additional links from thos links, I think I will beg my GP for a saliva test, what do you thing?

Thank you to the other contributors also.

[cc120]

I did read somewhere that a GP gave in and had a laboratory do a saliva test, if I come across it again I will post the link. My GP has offered me a cortisol blood test instead. She said if it's abnormal she will refer me to an endocrinologist. If that doesn't happen, I will either pay for one myself, or make an appt with Dr Peatfield, or buy his book, or try Seriphos which is £30 from amazon. Any advice would be grately appreciated. Did the private endo give you satisfactory treatment and are you feeling better now?

[vajra]

My sense as before is that mainstream medicine doesn't like to get involved in matters pertaining to cortisol levels unless there are very highly elevated or very low indeed - Cushings or Addisons territory.

My guess is that this is for 'professional' reasons. Long term moderately raised cortisol is a serious health risk, but there's a risk of getting sucked into treating something like the patient's response to a stressful situation (treating somebody when 'no disease' is present is seemingly a big no no, and when things get legalistic no disease probably means third party scientifically proven disease) - and also the likely reality that resolving issues like exaggerated stress responses and/or adrenal fatigue tend to entail getting involved in the sort of holistic complexities and uncertainties that the bureaucracy doesn't like.

A bit like hypothyroidism really - where there's perhaps a preference to see the reference ranges for the stock blood tests set good and wide, and for the same sort of reasons.

Never mind that the thyroid scenario leaves many ill but in a limbo where they can't access treatment.

Seriphos is quite a lot cheaper from the US - less than $20 a pack.

I've not knowingly experienced low adrenals AOTN, but gather that when they start to struggle that they can be low a lot of the time - but on occasion release bursts of high output. Wonder if it could be that this is why low adrenals can seem to produce (do they?) symptoms quite like high cortisol at times?

ian

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to vajra]

If anyone wants to get Seriphos from iHerb.com in the US, you can use my discount code ZAK826 to get between 5 and 10 dollar off the order. It's not much, but it's still a saving. They also have nutri-meds adrenal cortex and Thyro Gold.

[cc120]

Thank you all, will need to re-read to take in better. Thank you Angel of the North. The iherb site seems brilliant, has everything, couldn't find Thyro Gold but certainly lot of thyroid support supplements. Both Seriphos and adrenal cortex have great reviews from people suffering from adrenal fatigue. The discount code, for first time shoppers, deducts $10 which is great. So with this discount, I can get 3 x 100 Seriphos, with 2-4 days shipping for $8 or 10 days for $4, so a total of $62 or $54.32, which is a total of £33.86, which is the price I would have had to pay for 1 x 100 from Amazon.

So do you all think that the blood cortisol test will not help at all? And if this is the case, should I just buy some Seriphos alone or with adrenal cortex, or any other combination anyone can suggest for someone suffering from adrenal fatigue for over 10 years?

Alternatively should I pay for a saliva test myself and present results to GP?

Or buy Dr Peatfields book or make an appointment with him?

Pettals are you in USA/UK?

Not sure it adds anything but for interest sake, here is a link to a chart comparing adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism symptoms?

drlam.com/blog/adrenal-fati...

[cc120]

Also, a review of interest on Seriphos on iherb from KentuckyWildcat From Kentucky on Jul 21, 2013

Seriphos seems to protect the brain from high levels of cortisol due to anxiety and stress. However, this form does not have the other phospholipids. To get those naturally, you can take an inositol supplement (inositol helps your body build those phospholipids needed for neurotransmitter health). This combo of Seriphos and inositol has been a lifesaver to me, allowing me to say goodbye to depression and anxiety during a very stressful time in my life.

[vajra]

Good to hear you are making some headway Pettals - it's complex territory in many ways.

This isn't advice CC, but so far i've followed as best I can the approach to treating the adrenals set out in the Clymer manual linked above - which speaks of taking Seriphos at times about one hour before (as determined by the saliva based adrenal stress profile) the peaks/the periods of above normal cotrisol. Which for me has shaken out to be a bit before mealtimes, and before bed.

It talks also of the possibility of simultaneously supplementing the adrenals at times when/if the test shows cortisol to be significantly below normal too. (not needed in my case - and bear in mind that the Seriphos probably rests the adrenals anyway by partially blocking the signal to produce cortisol) This to reduce the load for a period to allow the possibility of recovery - but broader reading seems to suggest that care is needed not to overdo adrenal supplementation as it risks very significant dependency problems if overdone/done for too long.

Bear in mind too that taking Seriphos at times of low cortisol is likely to worsen the situation.

There are other US and UK manuals and books out there, but not having read them i don't know how much correspondence there is between them. (it may well be to a high levels, as i've so far not seen material that seemed to disagree in any fundamental way)

I don't know enough to know if the blood test for cortisol will be useful CC, but if its a one time test rather than the four spread across the day as in the case of the saliva based test it's not going to provide the information on the daily adrenal profile that treatment approaches like the above seem to rely on. It would also beg the question of whether it's going to be representative.

There's also the question of whether or not a GP would regard the saliva test as valid, or even be familiar with this territory - we've discussed elsewhere the possibility that mainstream medicine may not be keen on the test and/or on treating what might be seen as relatively moderate variations in cortisol level.

From those bits i've seen it seems like the US naturopathic community (at least the ones i've read about) regard the saliva test as the one to use. They make use of the multiple readings, and also the additional DHEA and (in some) immunological information provided. Plus the relatively low cost and ease of accessibility make re-testing at intervals to monitor progress towards a normal adrenal profile.

The various manuals and books provide a broad direction, and whatever we do has got to be a matter of personal judgement - but my instinct given the freedom to do so would be to carefully search out a naturopathic or holistically inclined doctor or GP with expertise and a track record in the area - and use them. If only to put a safety net in place should issues arise requiring a wider/deeper knowledge.

It's very hard to get to solid information on this topic. These treatments are for example all intended to be followed for limited periods only, but i've not had much luck in my attempts to establish what this might mean, and what the safe and effective limits are - both in terms of time and dose of supplements like Seriphos. The data sheet found so far on the web for example doesn't cover this territory...

ian

[cc120 in reply to vajra]

Thank you Ian/vajra - if money was no object I would definitely take the Dr Peatfield appt route, though not sure if he needs previous, pertaining test results to make his diagnosis, or quite how he diagnoses. But being financially limited, if I can go direct to a medication to at least make me feel somewhat better, I will. So still deciding. So low cortisol is when your feeling calm and have energy and high cortisol is when your feeling wired, anxious and tired?

[vajra]

I can't advise you to go it alone CC, but understand where you are coming from - i've taken a similar route.

If you choose to do so be careful to understand what you are trying to do before starting. It's not necessarily as a you probably know a case of just popping Seriphos at any time - it may need matching to your times of high cortisol. Taking Seriphos when cortisol is low seems likely to further worsen that situation - because it partially blocks the action of the ACTH that riggers its release...

I haven't (in recent times anyway) had issues with low cortisol, so i'm not a great source of information on the question you ask. I know that high cortisol gives me a bloaty uncomfortable feeling gut, occasional nausea, a hot and puffy feeling about my face, and leaves me feeling somewhat anxious. Plus there's low grade hypo or hypo like set of symptoms that kick in as well - muscle aches, low energy, some joint pain and the like.

A lot of what i'm doing is about of course getting rid of these symptoms, but it's especially about getting my blood pressure under control. It rises pretty markedly with my cortisol (and probably other adrenal hormone) levels, although this doesn't seem to be the case for everybody. As it rises or drops it also triggers tinnitus.

I'm high throughout the day (and probably the night too - it's not yet been properly tested), but meals (especially if i eat the sugar, gluten containing or additive heavy stuff i normally avoid - this no doubt suggests something too) tend to trigger increases.

So i'm effectively guided to quite a degree by what my tinnitus tells me is happening - but the Genova adrenal stress profile was important to show that i really did have an issue with high cortisol and what was happing throughout the day at a more general level.

I've a feeling that low cortisol produces a dead or leaden sort of feeling, but with an overlay of the hypo feeling - i took a little too much Seriphos a few times early on when it was highly effective (small doses did a lot for a few days at first) and ended up feeling that way.

ian

[cc120 in reply to vajra]

Hi Ian - thank you for this post, sorry not to comment earlier but was very fatigued and brain fogged for a couple of days and have done a lot of sleeping. Feeling better now.

Sorry to hear that you have tinnitus to contend with aswell. My tooth abscess plays up when I'm not well rested enough.

I've found out on this link: thyroid-disease.org.uk/smf/... , that Dr Peatfield does not do tests, patients have to have them done privately. And (on another site) that he does have patients request a full history of results for all blood tests over the years, which one would have to acquire one's GP.

Some patients simply describe their symptoms to him and he is able to diagnose. So I could go that route without the tests. But then he could decide he requires the saliva test?! Maybe I could enquire before actually making an appt. what he requires?

My symptoms can be the leaden, deaden with a spacey feeling, and when outside when feeling like that, I get really anxious that severe fatigue will set in before I get home which sometimes makes if difficult to put one foot in front of another, and have even basic mental processes.

My most worrying symptoms are when I've been very active either physically /mentally or both. At the end of those days I feel tired and wired, the following 3 days, I am extremely fatigued, very weak, very rabid thoughts, not able to get anything into perspective, feelings of hopelessness and helplessness. Takes 3 days of doing next to nothing, with very long sleeps of 12 to 15 hours a night, before I actually feel human again. I gave up sugar more than 6 months ago as I noticed sugary food brought on mental fog, and the shakes. (I've been tested for diabetes - negative).

So would you consider or have you seen a specialist eg: Dr P?

Dr P does ask patients to record temprature, reason outlined on: ADRENALS FAQ–the most frequently asked questions - stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

2) How can I tell if my problems are adrenal, or thyroid? The body’s temperature drops as the metabolism drops. Low temperatures are caused by low thyroid. If the adrenal hormone cortisol is low, the average daily temperature will fluctuate when comparing one day’s average to the next. (See Discovery Step Two, number Four, here.) We are not talking about temperature changes during one day – it is normal to wake up with lower temperatures and hitting a peak in the later afternoon. Take your temperature 3 hours after waking, again 3 hours later, and again in another 3 hours. You average those 3 readings to get one single number for that day.

[vajra]

No need to reply unless it suits CC. I'm no expert - so don't assign too much weight to anything i might say as realistically it's not necessarily generally applicable - or even a correct take on the topic.

I'm in Ireland, and not the UK - so i don't know these doctors except by what i read here. I've only experienced one doc that led on these issues - where it wasn't a case of figuring what i needed from and influencing to achieve that. Then maybe I was unlucky, or maybe i'm a cynic. i.e. there are times a doc is needed for prescriptions, broader input and the like - but i've largely by default ended up on the DIY road so far as treatment of metabolic issues is concerned. I've been shocked at how unreliable many tests have proven to be. Against that the surgery i've had (thyroidectomy etc) went very well - within the limits of that approach.

What you describe sounds very like where i was back in the late 90s and especially the early 2000s - when i was heavily hypothyroid, and suffering all sorts of recurring immune, gut and infection based illnesses (opportunistic infections when i got lower were around all the time - mine were typically sinus and urinary tract, became chronic and the sinus eventually required surgery to clear) but couldn't get diagnosed. I'd stuff like gout and all sorts of aches and pains which cleared up once the underlying hormonal issues were resolved.

I'm a little amazed to find myself in very decent shape now - there was quite a long period where i was sure the situation had got beyond recovery. That systems were damaged beyond repair. Not so it seems. So don't give up.

It's very hard to separate adrenal and thyroid symptoms i think - probably because they are pretty interdependent - so treatment is ideally holistic/targets multiple issues at once i suspect. Don't underestimate stuff like sorting out the diet, getting rid of toxins, supplements, lifestyle changes/de-stressing, mind and energy work etc. Against that my path was pretty hapahazard, and seems to have tolerated arriving late on some issues (like the adrenals) so either i was unknowingly guided, or it's not always too critical.

It's sometimes very hard to become aware of the issues when we're very unwell. It turns out for example that bread/wheat/gluten cause me significant problems ( i developed a sensitivity when my gut was ill it seems) - but it took years and years for this to become clear. The test for gluten intolerance thought it wasn't a problem, but it was only when some of the other issues were resolved to the point where the effect was readily noticeable that clearly showed that it was.

I'm not sure that anybody at this range can offer a full solution per se in a single shot - it's perhaps inevitably a journey of discovery where the next steps only emerge from the fog as the preceding one is completed. There's even been times where i thought i hadn't a clue, and just used my gut feeling to pick something to try. Interestingly enough everything seemed to deliver progress.

The reality of this stuff (except for a very talented and experienced holistic guy - whether a doc or not - because there does seem to be a big picture that links it all together) is i think so far from the conservative medical vision of the omnipotent practitioner that sizes up the situation in a single consultation to hand out the magic pill that will fix all in one shot that it's not funny. More to the point - it requires working through intuitive and trial and error based territory that the system won't countenance - for all sorts of bureaucratic reasons i suspect.

If nothing else it's sometimes necessary to wait for progress in one area/for partial recovery to occur before the next can become obvious.

The other technique i've found valuable was to think carefully about and to name my symptoms, and start Googling. Which typically led to an undertsanding of the sorts of issues that could produce them, and to people on forums discussing fixes. Lots of which was a bit off the wall, but with gems in the mix. Once systems/processes are identified it becomes possible to search for treatments.

e.g. my blood pressure required beta blockers to get control, which suggested an adrenal involvement, which led to trying to understand adrenal hormones, which led to cortisol, which led to the revelation that a history of stress could leave us with programmed/exaggerated stress responses, which led to doctors/naturopaths and communities of people trialling adaptogens and the like to re-programme the brain/adrenal (HPA) axis.

Not necessarily your situation, but you get the idea.

The good news is that it sounds like you're up and running. That's trying stuff despite feeling miserable. It's surprising (it was for me anyway) how over time a path slowly comes clear if we keep on trying - even the bits that didn't work tend to provide information and insight.

Hope this helps. The most important thing i think is not to give up, and to keep on going. Because ultimately the one rule in life is that's irrecovable is that nobody else can live it for us - and you wouldn't have set yourself this challenge if you couldn't handle it. Whatever the outcome....

ian

[cc120 in reply to vajra]

Hi Ian - Sorry to hear you had to have a thyroidectomy but glad to hear that you're in better shape overall now.

That's how I started, to stop and think (as clearly as I was able) assess and ascertain symptoms and google away. I was particularly interested from medicinegarden.com link, High Cortisol Sympoms/PTSD and You, Part 2, the possible connection between a troubled childhood leading to the high cortisol levels being the norm, possibley subsequently leading to significantly larger adrenals. I do feel this could have been the case for me as I was always worried, anxious, frightened as a child and it's only now I've finally understood why I've felt so different from most other children/people who seem able to take things in their stride and also to cope with challenges/day to day life/and any stressful situations, so much better than I ever have.

I'm wondering whether I can use temperature plotting as a diagnostic tool for cortisol levels (a website suggesting can be used a diagnostic tool for adrenal/thyroid issues: thyroid-rt3.com/adrenals.htm . It offers link to how best to set out graph/decipher results: drrind.com/therapies/metabo... (Dr. Rind's Metabolic Temperature Graph). If I was able to ascertain high/low cortisol levels from this method, I could then start myself on: Seriphos, inositol, perhaps lugols, nutri med adrenal cortex, perhaps later Naturethroid - (said to be better and cheaper than the new formual armour - as posted on boards.dailymail.co.uk/heal... - with link: thyroid-disease.org.uk/smf/... - for information about naturethroid, etc, people who use it, & best places to buy it from.

Then when I can afford the saliva test, I would simply stop all supplements 2 weeks prior.

[vajra]

I'm really sorry CC, but you're seeking specific treatment advice. I can't and won't answer questions of that sort, and as several times before am not competent to do so. I very genuinely have anyway no idea if that's a proven or even reasonable approach in your situation.

I've pointed to some sources that purport (in very general terms) to have had success in reducing stress related high cortisol using adaptogens, and reported some seeming recent progress of my own in that regard (it's still early days) - but in the end we each have to decide how best to progress our own situation.

I can only repeat the earlier suggestion that you seriously consider hooking up with a competent practitoner. The signs are that there's scope to get it wrong - and that's a very long chain of assumptions and treatments that you have set out..

My own experience suggests too that chronic stress is problematical, and that the view set out in the above sources (that this may lead to our ending up with our HPA axis/ 'stress thermostat' set too high) could hold some water - but this (while there does seem to be supporting animal research) is far from a mainstream medical view.

Hang in there and don't give up...

ian

[cc120 in reply to vajra]

Hi Ian, thank you for your words of wisdom. Decided to go for the saliva test, followed by an appt with Dr P. But I just read: thyroid-disease.org.uk/inde... that he is interested in test results but doesn't mention saliva test. So will try to contact his secretary to if he advises saliva test or any other test before consultation which is £150 followed if necessary by 30 min appt at £70. Though he does offer questionnaire feedback and phone consultation for £100 too.

[vajra]

Good going CC - my instincts would be to try and get some hard info on the table too, and when you've got potential adrenal issues in play the saliva test seems useful.

I don't know anything about Dr. P, or his approach - but there will be others that do.

I was reluctant to answer your pretty specific question because i'm far from clear of adrenal/thryoid interactions. That said it got me (very tentatively) thinking, and i've just put up a blog on the subject which starts from a link to a page by Dr. John C. Lowe on treating adrenal issues.

It's far from being solid information, but maybe illustrates some of the possible interactions and might be of interest.

ian

[cc120 in reply to vajra]

Hi Ian, that does seem most sensible. However, surprisingly I was able to speak to Dr P's secretary today, after using 'call back' facility. She was very nice and regarding saliva test, she said best to wait to see Dr P who will suggest what tests I might need. Though any results of tests I have, eg blood, to get from GP. On enquiring about concession for the unemployed, she said she would ask about that, but that payment can be made over a few months if necessary. I made an appt for 25 Nov, which will be in Sussex, and will only have to pay £25 on that day. The 4 weeks prior to appt, any 2 days of each week, I am to take temperature and pulse before getting out of bed in morning and again when I'm relaxed back in bed at night. Also, a questionnaire will be sent which I will complete and take to appt.

I might do a saliva test if funds arn't too challenged, but not sure as Dr P's secretary was quite firm.

Please can you provide link to the blog you mention?

[cc120 in reply to cc120]

Hi Ian, I found the blog you mentioned, thank you.