I’ve just added up how much I’m spending on ndt and supplements and it’s an awful lot of money. I wondered if anyone had advice on cheaper options or those they think are unnecessary.
I’ve got hashimotos and have also been diagnosed with ME/ CFS - these are a mixture of things recommended on here and from Dr Myhill.
I buy the following from lamberts -
Magnesium citrate 150g as magasorb - currently £20.95 for 180
vegan vitamin d3 1000iu - currently £14.50 for 90
Q10 200mg - £38.95 for 60
Vitamin C time release - £19.95 for 180
Selenium 200ug - £7.95 for 60
Betaine HCL - £15.95 for 180
From Holland and Barrett
Solgar methylcobalamin 1000ug - £15.49 for 30
From Boots
probiotic with added zinc and B6 - £25 for 180
This works out at around £3 a day, over a thousand pounds a year!
I also taking Armour, which I don’t want to change as I’m very settled on it, but that adds up to around £1,300 a year - yikes.
I want to make sure I’m taking things that will help but would love to cut these costs if it’s possible so any suggestions from you wise people will be very very welcome.
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Mazes
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Hi Mazes am no expert but it’s shocking when you add it all up I agree!
When I get my dose sorted I’m going to try and switch to thyroid S to dispense with doctor script charge unless I can get the GP to prescribe for me. Re supplements, check out a company called British Supplements. I now make my own kefir from local raw milk which I’m sure works for me as a probiotic! Like you I have fibro/CFS/hashis. As for selenium I’m finishing the bottle I have but now am taking Brazil nuts which contain selenium may be a bit cheaper, you’d have to work it out!
Just a word of caution re selenium; 200ug supplements are only recommended for short periods (in my case, I took this for 6 months for active Thyroid Eye Disease, then reduced to 100ug). Doses of 400ug per day and above can be toxic. As Brazil nuts contain 50-90ug per nut (according to soil type) its not recommended to consume more than 1-2 Brazil nuts per day.
My selenium came back over range when I tested after taking 100ug for 6 months so have stopped it. No Brazil nuts for me for a few months. GP tested a long list for me after I queried toxicity and listed my supplements. Worth a try for an NHS test rather than private.
I’ve found the 4000iu drops of D3 with K2 last 12 months if you reduce your summer dose, 1drop = 1 iu so very frugal dosing.
I have a 500g bag of ascorbic acid rather than expensive Vit C. Not greasy on the gut but half a teaspoon a day in drinking water works for me.
I’ve started to have some supplements on alternate days to stretch out the value. I haven’t noticed any difference yet and will test again via GP in December.
I also have a £3 pill cutter from Amazon that allows me to halve doses.
Where it says a dose is 3x magnesium I take 1 etc.
However, when just starting out and on loading doses I agree it was astronomical. Good to take stock and figure out what really is of value.
GP advised stopping everything for 2 weeks and re introducing only what was really needed. That was interesting. I now know I absolutely have to take B Complex but can manage alternating days. I also now self inject B12 which helps. Ferritin supplement is essential for me.(fibroids) but 2 months on Three Areows from the IS means I can now take a lighter vegan heme alternative which is more affordable. The rest are just maintenance doses now.
Shop around try iHerb, Amazon, British Supplements, compare the per dose costs. Often the same product eg pure encapsulations is £5-10 different for the same thing on different sites.
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I would definitely take a break from Brazils for a while, as it is likely your selenium levels are high. The amount in Brazils does vary according to the soil content where they were grown.
‘Selenium toxicity can occur with acute or chronic ingestion of excess selenium. Symptoms of selenium toxicity include nausea; vomiting; nail discoloration, brittleness, and loss; hair loss; fatigue; irritability; and foul breath odor (often described as “garlic breath”).’
I stopped making kefir when I was feeling extra unwell, but do prefer it to the probiotics so maybe I’ll give it another go. Then work out if it’s any cheaper and maybe alternate.
Let's say that supplement X is sold in 1000mcg, 2000mcg and 5000mcg doses.
I would start with the 5000mcg doses, and when I thought I had topped up my levels and just wanted to maintain my levels in future, I would continue taking the 5000mcg dose, but would only take it, say, two days a week on Monday and Thursday. If I decided one a week was enough I'd perhaps just take it once on a weekend.
I also take "supplement holidays" from some of my supplements, and I might stop taking it for one week out of every four, or one month out of every four.
Getting more specific, I couldn't tolerate 200mcg doses of selenium, and I only take 100mcg.
The methylcobalamin I buy is MUCH cheaper than the one you buy. It keeps my levels up very well, so I don't care if it contains magnesium stearate. It's a very high dose so I only take it a couple of times a week :
I would ditch anything that isn't clearly making a difference. Take a multivitamin and top up the odd vitamin if you really need to. Remember food is multivitamins.
True, but we don't really know how much of everything we absorb from food. One of the reasons for not taking a multi-vit is that they usually contain iron in quite high doses, which is said to block the absorption of vitamins. Do you have iron in every meal you eat? In high doses? And do you know how many of the vitamins in your food get absorbed when you eat a high iron meal? I doubt you do.
Also, multis tend to contain things we are unlikely to need like calcium, and iodine. And ingredients of less good quality than you are likely to get in your food. So, I really don't think that saying 'food is multivitamins' is helpful unless you point out the possible differences between them. You are not comparing like with like.
Well, I don't really think that was what you said - or it was in rather an oblique way. But, I would agree that we should only take what we need. Trouble is, our low stomach acid, making it difficult to digest food and absorb nutrients.
I feel there is too much pushing of vitamins on health websites, especially when there is a commercial interest. It may be a good idea to take a supplement when we are elderly and a multivitamin / mineral is a good economic base. We do tend to be deficient in some things such as vitamin D and magnesium but don't waste money overdoing it.Low stomach acid may exist in hypothyroidism, I'm genuinely not sure, but of course the problem will disappear once you are euthyroid.
Too much hype about vitamins I feel. Hypothyroidism is the underlying cause of e.g. iron deficiency and in most cases supplements are unnecessary once you are clinically euthyroid.
Sorry if this will affect the pockets of some websites.
I really don't care about the pockets of some websites! But I do care about people suffering from nutritional deficiencies.
a multivitamin / mineral is a good economic base.
No it isn't. It's throwing money down the drain because they are all lacking in one way or another.
don't waste money overdoing it
Agreed.
Low stomach acid may exist in hypothyroidism, I'm genuinely not sure, but of course the problem will disappear once you are euthyroid.
Well, there are enough people on here suffering from it! Just because you don't have it - neither do I - doesn't mean others don't either.
And I have very serious doubts about it disappearing once euthyroid - or whatever it takes to make you well. The anacdotal evidence on here is that it doesn't.
Funny, I avoided replying to this question because I thought my opinions wouldn't be popular and I would get involved in too many arguments! 🤣🤣🤣
Never knew this, pretty much always have iron deficiency and prescribed iron tablets but also taking levo and other vitamins and minerals. Is it best to take Levo in morning and the rest at night or am I fighting a losing battle regardless?
Levo is better absorbed taken by itself with water on an empty stomach.Now not everyone takes it this way. Some take it with food and others with other medications or vitamins. And they feel fine. It might mean that they need a slightly higher dose of levo to compensate for the poorer absorption but it is what it is.
However for those of us who need to get the most out of levo we follow the empty stomach , on its own advice. It does mention it on the leaflet that comes with the tablets.
Also to stop interference vitamins, supplements should be taken 2 hours away from levo dose and magnesium 4 hours away.
I take my levo in 2 doses first thing and bedtime. This leaves the whole day clear for other meds and supplements.
Thank you so much, so I need to wait 2-4 hours depending. Sorry I should have said I do always take full dose of my levo first thing on empty stomach but was unsure of the timing of everything else, I usually take the vitamins about 1 hour later with my breakfast but I guess that’s too close. Maybe will have with dinner as tend to get bedtime indigestion if I take things too late without food.
Iron should be taken at least four hours away from thyroid hormones, and at least two hours away from everything else, or else it will block absorption. Everything, that is, except vit C, and you must take vit C with iron to help with absorption of the iron, and avoid constipation.
Yes, of course it is, but that still doesn't make a mult-vit good value for money, nor a good idea to take. What about the copper, calcium, iodine, things you more than likely don't need and should be tested first before taking. Then there's the quality of the ingredients: cyanocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin; folic acid instead of methylfolate; magnesium oxide instead of one of the more bioavailable magnesiums. I could go on ad infinitum about multis but I'll restrain myself. I'm sure you get the picture.
I think one problem is the many ingredients in some multivitamins. Many contain potassium and cupper, for instance. If you are not deficient, will they do you any harm? I don´t know. It´s hard to find products containing only vitamins and not minerals. Also, some products I´ve looked at contain more than the daily recommended intake of vitamin A. Since it´s a fat soluble vitamin, it builds up in the body. Vit A toxicity is said to be dangerous. How much is too much?
More generally, I agree with the OP...it does add up. I have often wondered if we need all the supplements that are often recommended.
I'm suggesting seeking to get vitamins from food, if you suspect deficiency use a multivitamin mineral as a general top up and target any specific deficiency. If you don't see a clear benefit after trying a supplement ditch it
No, don't use a multivitamin top-up! You're right about the copper. It should be tested before supplementing. Zinc and copper should be kept balanced - and they are in most people without thyroid problems. But hypos often have one low and therefore the other is high. It's often zinc that is low, so taking more copper is really not a good idea. If your zinc is low, you need to take zinc, but not copper.
On here, we always recommend testing the basics: vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and only taking what you need, plus the cofactors (i.e. magnesium and vit K2-MK7 with vit D; vit C with iron; B complex with B12 and/or folate). Taking more of things you don't need won't do you any good, and could do you harm. That is one of the reasons why taking a multi-vit is throwing money down the drain because you're basically taking a lot of stuff you don't need and - if there's iron in it - won't absorb anyway.
the basics, ok, got it! vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin, and only taking what you need, plus the cofactors (i.e. magnesium and vit K2-MK7 with vit D; vit C with iron; B complex with B12 and/or folate.
But:
- do I TEST for magnesium?
-is it helpful to test for b complex in addition to b12
- is “D” the same as “D3”?
- never heard of zinc or copper being relevant… do I test for that?!
-what about cortisol - should I throw that in to my regular testing? My knowledge of cortisol is just beginning but seems important to know.
I’m coming up on my 6-8 week mark and am putting my blood testing list together! Let me know what you think.
No point due to the way your body handles magnesium. The results can be deceptive. Just take it. It's water soluble so excess is excreted. And most people are deficient in magnesium, anyway because soils are depleted.
-is it helpful to test for b complex in addition to b12
You mean all the individual Bs? B1 (thiamin)
B2 (riboflavin)
B3 (niacin)
B5 (pantothenic acid)
B6 (pyridoxine)
B7 (biotin)
B9 (folate)
B12 (cobalamin)
It's not usual to do that. I had it done once by a neurologist investigating my dizzy spells. And they were all low! But I live in France. Don't know if you can do that in the UK. I'd just take the B complex, if I were you.
- is “D” the same as “D3”?
Not always. There's D2 and D3. D3 is the one you want.
- never heard of zinc or copper being relevant… do I test for that?!
I'm not well up on copper, except that it has to be balanced with zinc. But, zinc is a very important mineral, and needed for good processing of thyroid hormones. I was low in zinc and had terrible muscle pains. Most people have joint pains but I never had those, it was my muscles, and I was takiing 6+ ibuprofen a day! I started zinc and it was like magin. Almost over-night my muscle pains disappeared and I went from 6+ to 0 ibuprofen in next to no time.
Best if you can test them before supplementing because you might be one of those that has low copper, meaning your zinc will be too high. You don't want to take something you don't need.
-what about cortisol - should I throw that in to my regular testing?
I don't know about regular, but it would be good to have a base line, make sure it's not too drastically high or low.
Thank you, that is my feeling as well! It´s so easy to fall for all those "healers" telling you that you should take X, Y and Z...I have unsubscribed to most such newsletters as they tended to stress me out...as soon as I had ordered one supplement, I was told I needed another one...and another one. Never noticed much difference one way or the other so discontinued them. The only thing that made me feel really terrible was iodine. I have never taken a supplement with cupper but you are right, you should not assume you need it. There is one thyroid glandular, GTA Forte, which contains copper. Never understood why. For that reason, I decided not to try it. I don´t know what to think of heavy metal toxicity and detox (claimed by some alternative doctors to be the cause of low thyroid function or impaired T4 to T3 conversion), but copper is mentioned among the metals that could be poisoning you...
I think detoxing is a nice little money-spinner for some alternative doctors. But, as I understand it, the body is quite capable of detoxing itself. As to heavy metal toxicity being the cause of low thyroid function, it may be one of the causes but there are so many other possible causes that I think we have to dismiss this claim. Test before treating should be our motto!
Many contain potassium and copper, for instance. If you are not deficient, will they do you any harm?
Zinc and copper have a relationship - if zinc goes up, copper goes down, and if zinc goes down, copper goes up. In hypothyroidism the most common results for copper and zinc are high copper and low zinc, but there are a few people who have reported they have the opposite results. I've only measured my zinc and copper once (it's expensive), and my copper was above range and my zinc was fairly low in range. So, personally, I would avoid copper like the plague because I know it might not be good for me. But I can't generalise that to everyone else with a thyroid disease.
As for potassium, I have had low levels of this occasionally, and again I can't generalise this to everyone else - at high levels potassium could be dangerous. But I do get benefits from it.
I bought myself a bag of potassium bicarbonate powder from Ebay or Amazon, quite a long time ago, and a few times a week I take a level quarter teaspoon of it in orange juice to disguise the taste. I have found that it reduces my blood pressure.
On the rare occasions when I have potassium and sodium tested either privately or by the NHS I have discovered that I feel best when they are both roughly mid-range or at least at a similar percentage through the range e.g. both are 60% through the range or close to it. If there is a big difference in my sodium and potassium it tends to coincide with me not feeling terribly good - but again this is something I can't generalise to anyone else.
I don't know if you could get hyperkalemia from supplements either. I don't even know what dose I'm taking of the potassium bicarbonate powder - I just take what I think of as a cautious dose. But then females need 2600 mg per day according to this link :
When diagnosed I had a lot of nutritional deficiencies which needed addressing individually. Now thyroid hormones have been stable for some years, nutrients remain optimal with a daily multivitamin pill + vitamin D (with K2) drops.
I also take a supplement holiday in that only supplement Vit D during winter months, and don't take vit tabs on holidays. Much simpler and cheaper.
Natures Best is the same company as Lamberts but cheaper e.g. Betain HCl is £10.50, not £15.95. Not all the Lambert's products are included but I think all yours are.
Hi. I have been through loads of supplemenents by trial and error. Note: I don't have thyroid issues. I have fatigue, ibs and lymphoma. So we will differ. I would recommend the following though:
Vitamin D
- Get a different vitamin d. 1000iu is hardly anything. Also get your vit d level checked. Then take a much higher dose: 5000iu to 10000 iu and then test it in 2 months to see how much you need regularly. Ideally you want your vit d level 3/4 into the range, above half way.
The others:
Coq10 - drop the coq10 unless you are noticing improvements from it. Its expensive. I never saw any benefit personally. For energy its better to just eat more diversity of vegetables to support creating it in your gut.
Probiotics
- Drop the probiotics for the same reason. Unless you see benefit. Theres billions more in a tablespoon if kefir anyway.
Betaine
- betaine ? Do you really need it. Have you tested and priven you have low stomach acid? Same with b12. Sure if you lack intrinsic factor stay on it but you might need dbl dose, or eat more meat, chicken, fish etc to stimulate more stomach acid. Or add apple cider vinegar, lemon juice or malic acid.
If you genuinely have stomach issues take zinc carnosine and not just any zinc. Other zinc forms can irritate the stomach where as carnosine heals it.
Vitamin c
- This is a double edged sword. You probably will want to keep it for intermittent periods, especially when unwell but regularly taking it I'm not convinced its good given it taxes the adrenals and if you have thyroid issues it seems as bad as taking coffee. A better way to support adrenals is the magnesium, holybasil, or other calming herbs like ashwagandha. So I'd advise not buying it all the the time. Also liposomal vitamin c is better and stays in your system longer. Consider combining it with an extra supplement - quercetin for added anti inflammatory benefit.
Taurine
Something I would add which isn't particularly expensive is taurine. It will help with utilization of magnesium into cells and supports t4 to t3 conversion and all round is so beneficial on many levels.
Shop around and you can find cheaper more optimised supplements. If you subscribe to consumerlab you can find advice on poor quality supplements and better ones.
vit D 60000IU can be taken once every 2 weeks or even once a month on maintenance. May be cheaper...
Rest I don't know, but for me, once euthyroid, iron deficiency vanished and I no longer needed iron supplements. I still take a cheap B complex but I am not sure it makes a difference.
Has anyone found a vitamin blood test that’s not hugely expensive, I looked at a few and couldn’t believe how expensive they were. I suppose we could test to see if we actually need the extra vitamins, the tests are costly but I wonder how many of use spend a lot of money on vits we then pee away because we don’t need them.
I’m a bit too low on energy to reply to everyone individually, but thank you all so much. Such a lot of information to take in, it’ll take me a few days!
Initially I’m thinking I’ll get some testing and see what I definitely need, then research and look at all the different options.
It’s such a minefield - I’ve definitely improved since being diagnosed with cfs six years ago but I’m still housebound with very low energy.
As I don’t know what the improvement is down to, so it feels quite scary to stop taking any of the supplements because what if that is THE one that’s helped.
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Much improved on T3. Despite outrageous cost. Apparently!
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