Can someone please explain if it is fermented or unfermented soy that is ok to eat if you have an underactive thyroid.
I have to make adjustments to what I eat and have been looking at tofu and tempeh but am not sure if they are ok to eat.
Apologies I am a bit forgetful at the moment after long surgery and umpteen painkillers which seem to have interfered with my levo.
Unfortunately taking a while to re-stabilise 
I don’t know but wish to say hang in there 🫶🏽
Thank you. Getting better very slowly.
Personally, I would say that no soy is fit to eat. Not for anyone. It has all sorts of protential problems. And, I would say that anyone considering eating it should do extensive research first. It's bad for people and bad for the planet.
As far as hypothyroidism is concerned it is generally accepted that unfermented soy is bad. It impedes uptake of thyroid hormone at a cellular level, meaning that you can have good levels of thyroid hormone in the blood, but still be hypo.
However, some say that fermented soy is even worse because the fermentation doesn't get rid of the nasties, it extenuates them, making them even nastier. But, I can't speak from experience because I don't eat it, I'm allergic to soy, it makes me very ill, both fermented and unfermented. Also I think it all tastes foul!
Thank you. I think I will forget about tofu etc and just stick to my occasional splash of soy sauce then!
I should have said I am looking for an alternative to mushrooms which are in lots of dishes that I love. Unfortunately I have read that they are a bad idea if you have a stoma as like sweetcorn they do not digest properly and can cause blockages 🙁. Also unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a nice forum like this one where you can ask questions!
I'm afraid I know nothing about that, so googled it. And, I found this:
Myth: Higher fibre foods cause blockage
This is not the case. While it is true that higher fibre foods like sweet corn, mushrooms and peas can increase your output or produce more wind, they will very rarely cause blockage.
What can cause problems, however, are large servings of high fibre foods combined with little or no fluid. The keyword here is moderation. If you take a careful approach to eating higher fibre foods, there is absolutely no reason to avoid them altogether.
coloplastcare.com/en-GB/ost...
You can always find conflicting opinions on internet, and it's often difficult to know who is right. But, have you had any personal problems with mushrooms?
Well yes I have always been aware that mushrooms, like sweetcorn, go straight through me without breaking down. Sorry if that’s too much info!! So I can appreciate that they might be a risk as I was told to avoid sweetcorn. Also read that about mushrooms on someone’s blog.
I had to do bowel prep for a colonoscopy and was horrified to see on the screen a pocket of undigested peas in an otherwise completely clean colon. Urgh.. I've not eaten them since then and have also solved my unexplained recurring abdominal pain!
Feel like there are a few substantial populations in Asia thriving for several thousand years that would slightly contradict it being completely unfit to eat in any form. I think it's not particularly useful to completely write off entire foods for everyone without looking at the bigger picture. Just like wheat is perfectly fine for most people and has been for ages, but can be a disaster for a lot of people with Hashimoto's and everyone with Coeliac disease. It might be that frequently eating soy foods is really detrimental for the thyroid, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone with hypothyroidism needs to avoid it like the plague.
Well, I wasn't just talking about thyroid. There are many down-sides to soy. And, those Asian populations, for the most part, just used soy as a condiment for thousands of years. Not a main meal. Would you say you thrived on mustard or worcestershire sauce?
As for writing off entire foods, I don't consider soy to be food. But, with wheat and everything else I completely agree with you, and wouldn't do it.
Soy was originally used as animal fodder. Starvation lead to innovation to somehow make this stuff edible although as my father, the pharmacologist (toxicologist and pharmacognocist) said 'soy is not an appropriate source of nutrition for human beings'. We never had any soy product in the house, not even soy sauce.
I do very rarely cook soy sprouts and use soy sauce but these are not part of my regular diet. And soy sprouts just come out the other end. It seems they are mostly indigestible. Eating any sort of sprouts was never part of our food culture. Seeds were not wasted like this. It really does show a remarkable degree of improvidence when in the past seeds were valuable as a resource for future crops. The symbolism of consuming sprouts is worth looking into. As a society it seems we are so wealthy and capable that we can just literally toss away tons of seeds like this. Quite bizarre to be honest if you really think about it.
Are you talking about what is usually called just 'bean sprouts?' They are mung beans, not soy. Not the same thing.
I was brought up eating mustard and cress, which I think is typically British. Never heard of any other nationality eating it. It's just sprouted mustard seeds and cress seeds, and is particularly good with egg sandwiches. 
Apart from that, I can't see the point of sprouts but some people say they are more nutritious than the full-grown plant. But, I don't know if that's true.
Myself, I don't think soy should be fed to animals, either. From what I've read, it's not particularly nutritious. I think it's just a trendy fad for most most people. And a mainstay for vegans. But I'm sure that's not what being vegan is all about. It just makes it easier.
At the Korean and Chinese supermarkets both mung bean and soybean sprouts are available.
A couple of times per year, soybean sprout salad is okay. The sprouts need to be cooked.
Have you retested vitamin D, ferritin, folate and B12 since your operation
Aesthetic can significantly lower B12 levels
What vitamin supplements are you taking
I had to stop all supplements except for vits D and C 2 weeks before surgery then reintroduce gradually to see if they had any I’ll effects on my stomach ( I had bowel surgery). I normally take B12, B complex, selenium, magnesium and K. I was careful not to miss any in the weeks before. All now restarted but too early to retest yet.
Billions of people in the far east have consumed soy products over centuries, though I dare say not to excess and not in severely denatured forms. Dehulling and cooking beans and coagulating their "milk" are food processing steps that produce a food that is more palatable, nutritious and digestible; also fermenting them can reduce anti-nutrients while increasing other nutrients "associated with the reduction of chronic diseases, with potential anticancer, anti-obesity, antidiabetic, anticholesterol, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective effects".
Other components of their diet such as fish and sea vegetables appear to balance the ill-effects from soy, by providing iodine, although Japan, for example, had to introduce iodine fortification. It's also the case in Japan that there's a higher reported incidence of thyroid conditions, primarily as a result of increased screening efforts and the aftermath of the Fukushima nuclear accident.
Here's what ChatGPT had to say on the subject:
Certain forms of soybean processing can result in the production of foods with an anti-thyroid nature. The primary concern is related to the presence of compounds called goitrogens in soybeans. Goitrogens are substances that can interfere with the function of the thyroid gland by inhibiting iodine uptake or interfering with the synthesis of thyroid hormones. Here are a few forms of soybean processing that can increase the goitrogenic potential:
Raw or minimally processed soy: Raw or minimally processed soybeans contain higher levels of goitrogens compared to cooked or processed forms. When soybeans are consumed raw or undercooked, the goitrogens remain intact and can potentially affect thyroid function.
Fermented soy products: Fermentation can help reduce the goitrogenic potential of soybeans. Traditional fermented soy products like miso, tempeh, and natto have lower levels of goitrogens compared to unfermented soy products. The fermentation process helps break down the goitrogenic compounds, making them less harmful to thyroid function.
Soy protein isolates and concentrates: Soy protein isolates and concentrates are processed forms of soy used in various processed foods, including vegetarian meat substitutes, protein powders, and some processed snacks. These products are typically made by extracting proteins from soybeans, and the process can concentrate goitrogenic compounds present in the beans.
Soy supplements: Soy supplements, such as soy isoflavone supplements, are concentrated forms of soybean compounds. These supplements may contain higher levels of goitrogens compared to whole soy foods, as they are often processed and purified to extract specific compounds.
It's important to note that while goitrogens in soybeans can interfere with thyroid function, the impact on thyroid health is generally minimal unless consumed in excessive amounts or in individuals with pre-existing thyroid conditions. Moderation and a varied diet are typically recommended to mitigate any potential negative effects.
If you have specific concerns about soy consumption and your thyroid health, it's advisable to consult with a healthcare professional who can provide personalized advice based on your individual circumstances.
Bear in mind, the healthcare professional may be someone who's undertaken a minimal course in nutrition and may be pushing their own agenda.
Some more from ChatGPT:
There are several substances that are known to have goitrogenic effects and can potentially interfere with thyroid function. While the term "worst" can be subjective, here are some notable goitrogens:
Thiocyanates: Thiocyanates are compounds found in certain foods, such as cruciferous vegetables (e.g., broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts), as well as in some fruits and root vegetables. They can inhibit iodine uptake by the thyroid gland and interfere with the synthesis of thyroid hormones.
Isoflavones: Isoflavones are phytochemicals found in soybeans and soy products. Genistein and daidzein are two prominent isoflavones in soy. While isoflavones can have potential health benefits, they can also exhibit goitrogenic properties in excessive amounts.
Cyanogenic glycosides: These compounds are present in certain foods, including cassava (a starchy root vegetable) and millet (a grain). Cyanogenic glycosides can be converted to cyanide in the body, which can interfere with thyroid function if consumed in large quantities.
Polyphenols: Polyphenols are a diverse group of compounds found in various plant foods, including fruits, vegetables, nuts, and beverages like tea and coffee. Some polyphenols, such as those found in green tea and coffee, have been reported to have goitrogenic effects when consumed in large amounts.
It's important to note that the goitrogenic effects of these substances are typically observed when consumed in large quantities or in individuals with pre-existing thyroid conditions. In most cases, the goitrogenic properties of these foods are not a concern when consumed as part of a balanced diet.
Cooking or processing foods can often reduce the goitrogenic potential of these substances. For example, lightly cooking cruciferous vegetables can help deactivate the goitrogenic compounds and minimize their effects. Fermentation can also reduce goitrogenic properties, as seen in the case of traditional fermented soy products.
If you have specific concerns about goitrogens and your thyroid health, it's best to consult with a healthcare professional who can provide personalized advice based on your individual situation.
Sadly, you can't trust ChatGPT. It has been shown to invent things, including references that do not exist and so on - tested by AccountingWeb among others. For something like this, it'll probably just be doing a web search (although that has apparently now been "banned" as it was accessing subscription content without paying), but anything that has references or quotes needs to be checked manually. Remember, it doesn't actually provide correct answers,. it just shows you what an answer to your question might look like.
See teche.mq.edu.au/2023/02/why...
And, sadly, a high proportion of general search engine hits are worthless and, even hereabouts, many replies seem robotic.
The only soy product i ever consume is soy sauce, and not in huge quantities. Is that bad for my thyroid? Also, i do eat a lot of cabbage to counteract my (hypo-induced) constipation. Is that bad? 😱
Soy sauce is supposed to be fermented, but the cheap ones are always, so you have to be careful about that.
How much cabbage is 'a lot'? Are you on thyroid hormone replacement? If so, goitrogens aren't going to affect you because your thyroid no-longer needs iodine.
The only thing with soy is that it affects how thyroid hormones get into the cells, so that is potentially a bad thing - not for your thyroid as such, but for how your body uses - or doesn't use - thyroid hormones.
I wrote this post about goitrogens the other day:
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Thanks greygoose. I eat cabbage and onions most days (but only once!), so maybe this is OK. Also I don’t think I've ever had a goitre. I have Hashis, and I’m currently on 5x 75mcg + 2x 100mcg of Levothyroxine per week. When I was on 100mcg per day my constipation disappeared, but I reduced to 75mcg after I started getting rapid heartbeat. Now I have given up caffeine I'm hoping I can get back up to 100, but I'm working my way there slowly.
Pretty sure it is ok. Did you read what I said in that link?
By the way, on a point of technicality, if you have Autoimmune Thyroiditis but no goitre, it's probably Ord's that you have, rather than Hashi's. I'm the same.
Yes I read the link. I was a little startled at the list of other goitrogens, but I don’t eat any others in excess other than a few times per week. Thanks for your help 🙂
But, the whole point is, it's not about excess. You can eat a whole kilo of walnuts, and you might be sick but it's not going to affect your exogenous thyroid hormone. Neither is any other goitrogen. That's not how they work. They can only affect people who rely on their thyroid for their hormone, not those on thyroid hormone replacement.
I have always used soy sauce in small quantities without any apparent ill effects. Not a big cabbage fan though I think it’s ok if cooked.
Doesn't matter if it's cooked or raw, the effects are the same. But, in the link I gave I explain that the odd helping of cabbage is not a problem, it's when you live on it that it's going to affect you. Also, if you're taking thyroid hormone replacement, goitrogens are not going to affect you because your thyroid no-longer needs iodine.
Except for soy, of course. But, soy isn't just a goitrogen. It also acts at a cellular level, so hypos - who already have quite enough problems as it is! - should avoid it.
I think it's important to remember that there's an enormous qualitative difference between different types of soy foods. As mentioned, several million people have eaten it as a staple for a rather long time, but the way it is often consumed in modern diets is as part of ultra-processed foods in large amounts, which is where the monoculture and environmental issues come in as well - it's used as a cheap source of protein etc. It's quite a different thing just having occasional organic tofu and tamari (wheat-free naturally fermented soy sauce) as part of a variety of proteins and vegetables, compared to having reconstituted soy 'meat' and cheap, poor-quality condiments.
Also very much individual - if you find you can eat small amounts without feeling worse or antibodies flaring, and you're properly medicated and getting all the nutrients you need, then I think that's fine. Might be a case of doing an experiment, introducing a couple of times a week for a month or so and then seeing how you feel and what your bloods look like, same as with any food you would consider adding or eliminating (e.g. dairy or gluten).
Just eat a nutritious and varied diet and enjoy what you enjoy but eat everything in moderation. If your meds need to be raised after diet changes they can be raised. Orthorexia is a serious condition that can cause malnutrition but it is, sadly, becoming much more prevalent in today’s (Mis)Information Age.
I can recommend using Google Scholar to look up scientific studies on any food item or group and its effects. You’ll likely find those in favour of soy as well as against while also being able to work out where the research funding came from and what agenda the study is for. Oddly those connected to the meat and dairy industries seldom have a good thing to say about soy.
I did a lot of research on the thyroid/soy subject and came to the conclusion that it is perfectly safe to eat moderate amounts of soy products as part of a varied diet that includes other protein sources but it’s best to have them at least four hours away from your thyroid meds.
I eat tofu once or twice a week and use tamari sauce (fermented soy) for stir fries. Initially I had cut soy out of my diet completely because I was under the impression that it was bad for people with Hashimoto's. After reading through everything on the subject that I could find I came to the conclusion that, like a lot of other things, there is no clear cut answer to the question of it being bad or good for my thyroid. It has quite a few benefits apart from the thyroid issue. I have decided to consume it well away from my thyroid meds and not very often. For the longest time I was told to not eat goitrogens, which also have a number of health benefits apart from their impact on thyroid. This has been modified in the meantime to moderate consumption and seems not to be as big a deal anymore. Maybe in the future soy will be included in "consume in moderation". On pubmed the general consensus seems to be that more research is needed (as usual). In short, it's another thing, to me, that requires some individual experimentation. I would not consume soy products, fermented or not, by the truck load (just like cabbage or broccoli), but since it seems to not adversely impact me, as far as I can tell, I continue to consume it as a source of protein and to flavour my veggie dishes.
Maybe this article will help. But it is, of course, Dr. Childs' opinion. In the end you will have to decide whether it makes sense to you. restartmed.com/soy-and-thyr...
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