I am very curious because I have leaky gut and want to supplement with collagen which I heard helps leaky gut. I heard potassium iodide is good for hashmotos as its like a detox for the thyroid. If you can help that's great thanks guys. Xx
Hello! New here! Can you take collagen suppleme... - Thyroid UK
Hello! New here! Can you take collagen supplements with potassium iodide at 50mg with Hashmotos disease?
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Shineyhappypeople
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Hi Shineyhappypeople, welcome to the forum. 
I cannot imagine where you heard that iodine is good for Hashi's, because quite the opposite is true. Iodine is generally very bad for Hashi's. And, you should never take iodine anyway unless you have been tested for it and found to be deficient. And, even then, you should only take it under the surveillance of an experienced practitioner after the correct protocol has been put in place.
Iodine is not something to mess around with. It is anti-thyroid, and used to be used to treat people with Graves' Disease - hyperthyroidism - before the invention of anti-thyroid drugs.
Iodine is just one of the ingredients of thyroid hormone. It is not some magic elixir that improves the performace of the thyroid gland. Are you taking thyroid hormone replacement? Because 100 mcg T4 will give you approx 65 mcg iodine anyway. Plus what you get from your food. Doubtful you need more than that. And, excess iodine can even cause thyroid cancer.
This is the first time I've ever heard that 'its like a detox for the thyroid'. What would it be detoxing? Hashi's isn't caused by toxins in the gland itself.
I'm afraid I know nothing about collagen, but I believe a number of people on here take it. But, I would drop the iodine, if I were you - speaking from bitter experience, here.
Surely it won't cause problems if it's a very low dose? I heard from doctor if you take iodine supplements 12 hours away from thyroxine at a very low dose. X
Hi ShinyHP ..... if you are already taking Levothyroxine then you are already supplementing iodine. T4 is made of 4 iodine atoms. (T3 is 3 iodine atoms ) .
so 100mcg Levothyroxine contains about 63mcg iodine
Iodine is very complex subject in relation to autoimmune thyroid disease , and it can have unpredictable effects in either direction . (meaning it can sometimes worsen hyperthyroidism , and it can sometimes worsen hypothyroidism) .. so it needs treating with caution/ awareness .
i've put a big collection of useful information here : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... iodine-a-collection-of-useful-information-because-the-search-facility-on-health-unlocked-is-totally-pants
No-one is talking about iodine and levothyroxine being a problem by being in the stomach at the same time. Therefore 12 hours apart is of no, or almost no, importance at all.
The problem is how iodine affects us - our bodies - over days, weeks, months.
So can I take low dose iodide with levothyroxine? Even once every 2 to 3 days for just say 2 weeks and see how it goes? X
But why would you want to? What do you think it's going to do for you? After all that everyone has said, why take the risk?
OK, so a doctor said to take it. A doctor told me to take it! The first thing you should know is that doctors know nothing about thyroid, or hormones or nutrients. Most of what they tell you has no basis if fact, and most of the time they make it up as they go along. And, they have this vague notion, without any proof, that 'iodine is good for you', and that all you need to do for a thyroid problem is throw iodine at it. They couldn't be more wrong!
I'm convinced that if I hadn't taken iodine when I was 35-ish, I wouldn't be as bad as I am at 78, with my thyroid completely gone.
Ouch! Sounds horrible!
Why? Just why do you want to do so?
And 50 milligrams isn't low dose. It is high dose.
The standard iodine requirement is around 150 micrograms. 50 milligrams is around 330 times our daily requirement.
Of course you can try taking as much as you want. Just be aware that some people have had problems with a single dose - problems that have not fully resolved by not taking any more.
So can I take low dose iodide with levothyroxine? Even once every 2 to 3 days for just say 2 weeks and see how it goes? X
The RDA of iodine for an adult is 150mcg daily.
How much Levo do you take?
100mcg Levo gives approx 62mcg iodine.
A normal diet contains iodine in milk and milk products (cheese, yogurt, etc), fish (cod, haddock, scampi, plaice, salmon, tuna, prawns), eggs, meat, poultry, and to a lesser degree nuts, bread, fruit and vegetables. Add this to the amount you get with your Levo. You are probably at or close to the RDA.
If you want to consider taking iodine then seriously consider doing a non-loading iodine test first to see what your level is. Genova Diagnostics do this test:
thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...
Go to List of available tests and scroll down to page 3
Urine Iodine Test:
Specimen requirements: Urine
Cost: £76.00
Order Code: END25
Turnaround time: 5 - 10 days
Iodine is an essential trace element, vital for healthy thyroid function. Adequate levels are required to enable the production of T3 and T4 thyroid hormones, whilst also being required in other areas of health.
Deficiencies can lead to impaired heat and energy production, mental function and slow metabolism. Urine iodine is one of the best measures of iodine status. This test is not performed as a loading test, but can be used to establish existing levels or to monitor iodine supplementation.
google.co.uk/amp/s/explore....
"With Hashimoto’s disease, the body attacks and destroys the thyroid gland, and it is typically treated with replacement thyroid hormones. In Grave’s disease, the body over-produces thyroid hormones. Research has suggested that supplemental iodine has negative impacts on both of these conditions."
So, which of these scenarios applies to you? A most unconvincing article, and inaccurate in parts.
No worries I will stick to my medication. I was just curious.
Sorry 50 mcg not mg my fault lol
Well, all I can tell you is that I curse that doctor that gave me iodine every day. I hope he rots in hell.
Im sorry to hear what happened to you
😮
Alanna, that may shock you but even apart from the iodine - which he gave me without doing any tests, or examination or even asking me about symptoms, and if he did it to me, how many other people did he do it do? - he was a very bad doctor. He was also a rampant misogynist and hated children. He was rude, arrogant and ignorant with a sneering superiority. Not only a very unpleasant person, but dangerous!
I see why you feel so strongly. He sounds like a terrible narcissist and he must of ruined other people's health with his arrogance. Unfortunately something about medicine seems to particularly attract people with this personality type. They appear to abound in larger numbers there than seems normal for the population. I wish I knew why.
Something to do with the power it gives them, I imagine. So many people still see doctors as demi-gods who can do no wrong.
Not good ok thanks for the tips
Which gives you approximately 120 mcg iodine. Given that the recommended daily intake is around 150 mcg, which you'll already be getting most of - if not all - from your food, I'd say you're already getting excess iodine on a daily basis. Do you think that adding more is really a good idea? What can the extra do that your regular in-take isn't doing already?
I spoke to the doctor again he said that Taking 50mcg of potassium iodide supplements 12 hours after thyroxine will not do any harm. It's a very low dose! He said to me " Only in America they use iodinized salt but in Britain they don't! So we don't get enough Iodine in our food in this country hence the need for iodine supplements" he said "don't listen to these nuts online most of them have no Medical degrees and think they know better than the doctors in which case they don't! They may have personal experience but they are not doctors! He said to avoid or limit salt with potassium iodide. Hehehe oh man! Your thoughts ladies. What do you think about this? I'm on here to get help and advice as I'm at my wits end!
You may consider this forum like 1 giant case study. Unfortunately we get ignored therefore none of it is ever written up as a case study. But if it were, hooo boy, would the medical community find that they are sorely misinformed. Lived experience plus handfuls of journal articles versus .... You take your pick.
BTW people here know how to use google scholar / pubmed / and pick apart journal articles better than any GP and i dare say most specialists. Learning about thyroid and reading papers does not require a medical degree. The journal papers support what was said here about iodine, not your doctor.
This group has never steered me wrong. Just sayin.
Here is one on the effect of adding iodized salt in Denmark. academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...
The Discussion section is particularly interesting to read. They conclude:
In conclusion, we found that even a cautious iodization of salt resulted in a modest increase in the incidence rate of hypothyroidism. It occurred primarily in young and middle-aged subjects with previous moderate ID. Additional monitoring is necessary to observe the long-term effect of iodine fortification on hypothyroidism.
I have no clue how to use research as I'm not all computer savvy. However I am on a beginners journey but very good to know! I would rather pick here as I heard it seems very well informed and yeah needing help and advice to get myself better. Thank you! Advice is super welcome! I'm battering my head against a wall with doctor to be honest!
I understand. It's difficult especially when we are used to trusting our doctors. But 100% what tatty writes below.
thoughts ..... we have provided you with properly referenced evidence for all the points we have made about iodine . we don't have medical degrees , but we can read medical studies ,and we do include references for where we read the information so you can read it yourself and make your own mind up about it's validity.
has he provided your with any properly reference evidence about what benefit he is expecting you to get from adding another 50mcg iodine to your current intake which appears to be at least 'sufficient' already ? has he given you any explanation of the mechanism by which this benefit is supposed to be achieved ? has he given you nay evidence that uk is low in iodine ? has he given you any explanation about why you would still need extra iodine when he's already prescribing aprox 120mcg in the form of Levo +T3 ?
did he even make you aware that you are already taking aprox 120mcg in the form of Levo +T3 ?
did he make you aware the the RDA is only 150mcg /day ?
Who to trust ?
personally, i tend to trust people who give me the full facts and references so i can check those facts for myself and form an opinion , rather than people who don't credit me with enough intelligence to do that , and just say "it's ok to do it because i said so , and i'm an expert ".
Which is why I'm here because I heard good things about thyroid UK and how they've changed peoples lives. He explained that " sodium iodine produces fluid into the blood cells. Both produce iodine to the cells. Potassium iodide extracts fluid into the blood cells. So if you have potassium iodide is the best option and the body still gets the Iodine into the cells and it won't do any harm if you take it with thyroid meds. Especially if you have edema." Your thoughts! I'm not all saavy about Thyroid problems and about what sites to look up at etc. So I will be grateful if you can help thank you! So I can challenge this bow tie doctor! I need to challenge him next week and he told me to provide more information and see how I feel. X
He explained that " sodium iodine produces fluid into the blood cells. Both produce iodine to the cells. Potassium iodide extracts fluid into the blood cells. So if you have potassium iodide is the best option and the body still gets the Iodine into the cells and it won't do any harm if you take it with thyroid meds. Especially if you have edema."
I was never any good at chemistry so i don't know much about the difference between sodium iodide and potassium iodide , but helvella or jimh111 might know more than me. so i've tagged them for you , in case they have anything useful to say .
Is sodium iodide the kind of iodine found in Levo ?
i assume it might be, because most brands of Levo say 'Levothyroxine Sodium'
So he's seems to be saying potassium iodide will get rid of fluid from cells which helps with edema.. whereas the sodium iodine from Levo puts more fluid into cells and makes edema worse ... ??
i wouldn't know if that is true or not .. but presumably he knows where he got that information from ..... in which case tell him you are interested and ask for a reference so you can read about it for yourself,.. and give it to us so we can read about it too. We might all learn something interesting .
Potassium iodide and Sodium iodide are inorganic iodine compounds. Salts, if you like.
When salts dissolve in water the two parts largely separate or dissociate. For example, with ordinary table the Sodium+ and the Chloride- ions separate and it acts largely like a mixture of the two ions. Until you dry it out - when you get crystals of salt. With Potassium iodide you get Potassium+ and Iodide- ions.
(The word iodide refers to an ion, a negatively charged atom, of iodine.)
Afraid I simply don't understand the quoted section.
This note about iodine might be worth a read:
ods.od.nih.gov/pdf/factshee...
Excess potassium is bad for anyone.
ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/P...
Excess sodium is bad for anyone. Usually regarded as around 6 grams - but many consume more than that.
Ive never studied chemistry at school.
This video shows salt dissolving in water. Just change the labels to make it work for potassium iodide or sodium iodide.
In the video, the sodium ions and the chloride ions end up entirely separated.
How Water Dissolves Salt
And this is more comprehensive about water more generally:
How polarity makes water behave strangely
Oh, i think i see what he is trying to say now, thanks to both your breakdowns. But then one might just take potassium chloride, eg lo-salt, to achieve the effect of reducing edema (not how that works & also not recommended). That has nothing to do with iodine & its potentially harmful effects, so it is a bizarre recommendation.
What it sounds like he's saying after all this discussion, and what tattybogle already alluded to, is:
I don't give my patients sufficient T4/T3 meds, so they stay hypo and have edema, so i give them potassium iodide because i think the extra potassium will reduce their edema, and the extra iodine will help the thyroid make the lacking thyroid hormones, again because i undertreat my patients and misunderstand how all this works.
Did I get that right? Do I get a gold star 🤩
Gold stars
Hehehe
i agree jade, there's other ways of supplementing potassium if that is what he's getting at.
Can't find the dose now, either it's vanished or i'm being blind , but i think ShinyHP said earlier that she takes a reasonably large dose of Levo plus some T3 .. anyway it was a large enough dose to enough to contain about 120mcg iodine (100mcg levo gives 62mcg iodine) We haven't seen any TSH / fT4 / fT3 results for the dose she currently takes, so it's not clear if insufficient T4/T3 is the issue with this doc or not .
Shineyhappypeople why not give us your thyroid / vitamin results to look over (TSH / fT4 / fT3 /B12/ Vit D /Folate /Ferritin) and see if anything jumps out to members that could be improved ?
Sensible enough as a discussion. But the potassium amount makes no sense when you consider the quantities.
The discussion was corrected to say 50 micrograms of iodine. (Which would be about 65 micrograms of potassium iodide.)
Even advice on low potassium diets suggests 200 milligrams per meal. Which, being around 400 times as much, renders the amount of potassium (or sodium) at the level if irrelevance.
eg the recommended daily amount of potassium is 3,500mg .
there is about 350mg (milligrams) potassium in a banana
that's 350,000 mcg (micrograms) in one banana.
so getting an extra 50/ 65mcg potassium from a potassium iodide supplement is REALLY insignificant.
(so it doesn't explain why the doc wants to supplement iodine (in any form) .
"I know nothing" as Manuel would say. My chemistry was always weak and is subject to dilution over time.
That's a good question let's research it! Does levothyroxine have extracts of sodium iodide and if so how much? I'm gonna ask that doctor when I see him next time to find me a paper what he has said. Because that's pretty interesting. Lol
it does say something about fluid / cells in that article helvella gave earlier about potassium. so you doc's comment seems to be based on some truth about potassium at least ... but as jade said , if he thinks you need more potassium , there are other ways of getting potassium (eating bananas for example !), so i don't think it explains why you should take potassium in the form of potassium iodide, even though it is a relatively small dose of iodine , it;'s still an iodine supplement. ?
Each and every molecule of levothyroxine contains four atoms of iodine and (in the form we use as thyroid hormone replacement) one atom of sodium.
They are all bound in place in the molecule. But the sodium atom is not directly bonded to an iodine atom.
In sodium iodide, the sodium and iodine are charged as ions and form a sort of bond to each other.
I've added a diagram. The atoms are the billiard balls. The purple ones are iodine. At the right end is a white one (which represents hydrogen). That is replaced by a sodium.
My vade mecum has some more information that might help.
helvella's Vade Mecum document is available here:
helvella - Vade Mecum for Thyroid
The term vade mecum means:
1. A referential book such as a handbook or manual.
2. A useful object, constantly carried on one’s person.
helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...
Iodine Content of Thyroid Hormones
Page 126
Hydration: Anhydrous vs. Pentahydrate
Page 108
Molecular diagram of levothyroxine
I can't say I understand any of that lol, but I know next to nothing about iodine. I just want to add that although your doc's comments are being challenged here and it might seem a bit off-putting and argumentative, everyone is just trying to help. Just wanted to mention that.
No worries . 😎it's cool. challenge the doctor he's the one who made the comment about being nuts and of course that he's the doctor he's god we've to listen to him lol. This is amazing! I'm learning new things.
Has he ever taken it himself? Would he take it himself if he believes we're all deficient in iodine? If we take the case of statins, so many doctors prescribe them but say they would not take them themseves under any circumstances. Could be the same with iodine: do as I say, not as I do.
So many doctors have told me so much rubbish that I cannot believe anything they say anymore. Look them in the eyes when they're talking to see how much they believe what they're saying. It's all very well to call us 'nuts' to cover his own ignorance, but it would take a lot more to convince me!
I don't know honestly! Most doctors are nuts that's for sure!
Dangerous nuts, most of them. At least we on here have the best interests of our members at heart.
Iodine, as a trace element, is a necessary and limiting substrate for thyroid gland hormone synthesis. It is an essential element that enables the thyroid gland to produce thyroid hormones thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3).pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › ...
[Iodine and thyroid gland with or without nuclear catastrophe]
Just found this on Google
Exactly. It is one ingredient of thyroid hormone, not some magic elixir that makes the thyroid work better. And, lack of iodine is not a cause of Hashi's, and can do nothing to help Hashi's.
As I always say - excuse the repetition - you can add as many eggs to the batter as you like, but if your oven is on the blink, you're still not going to get a cake out of it. Your 'oven' is on the blink, and iodine is not going to do anything to help it. Your problem is not low iodine, it's your immune system slowly destroying your thyroid. And iodine can exacerbate that.
Going back to your original question about leaky gut These are the things that helped me
- going strictly gluten free
- getting on my optimal thyroid hormones dose & addressing low b12, folate, iron, vit D
- get treated for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). Twice. It only finally worked when the above 2 were addressed
- drinking lime juice with meals to aid digestion; low stomach acid was due to hypothyroid and a mix of other issues . Others use apple cider vinegar.
- taking lactaid / lactose enzyme with dairy
- cutting down on empty carbs and sugar, which was a lot easier after all of the above
My naturopath recommended various herbs but in the end i didn't need them. My GI tract seemed to heal on its own after all of the above.
Thank you so much lovey great tips X
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