Advice on Thyroid-S

[MiaMam]

Hello,

I have Hashimoto and have been for almost 10 years on Eurothyrox 100mcg. In October last year I decided to switch over and try an NDT and am on Thyroid-S, Ive been doing this on my own, no GP or Endo. I am at the point where Im wondering if I was better off before.

Here is the thing, Ive worked up to 1.75 dose but can only take them after food, I take one after breakfast around 11 (1) and .75 in the afternoon around 4pm. I can't take them on an empty stomach in the morning as then I get a very bad reaction - like an overdose, am wired etc. with food this doesn't happen,.

My results however are still not optimum, on my last check at a dose of 1.5ndt (10 days ago) my TSH was 2.01 (0.27-4.20)

FT4 9.05 (12.00-22.00) - T4 is low

FT3 4.27 (3.10-6.80)

so according to this, I'm under dosed, however if i try and take it up, i can't sleep and start gaining weight - ive tried going above a dose of 1.75 but to no avail. Ive also seem to have entered menopause suddenly 3 months prior, my period just stopped and my FSH is now 103 and I have major hot flashes which I am wondering are they from switching meds (I'm 48)?

I eat a clean diet, am whole plant based, no gluten, sugar or dairy.

In short, Im feeling sick and frustrated and would welcome any advice.

Thanks!

[greygoose]

So, several things spring to mind:

1. You are vegetarian. I understand very well the inability to digest animal protein when hypo, but hypothyroidism and vegetarianism really don't mix. Been there, done that, made myself so very, very ill: lost my job, fell out with my flatmate (I was very bad-tempered!) and found myself penniless and on the street as well as ill! I don't recommend it. Did you try the enzyme supplements recommended in your last post?

2. And, it's not just about enzymes: a) your stomach acid is going to be low, too, as you're hypo, which will affect your digestion and absorption of everything. You probably need something to raise stomach acid, such as Cider Apple Vinager before meals, or something. And, b) your nutrients are going to be low - not just your ferritin mentioned in your last post, but all of them. Especially B12 because you only get B12 in animal products. Have you had them all tested: vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin. And probably zinc/copper if you can, because one of them is going to be low and the other high.

And NDT will not 'work' if your nutrients aren't optimal. Your body will have difficulty absorbing it in the gut, transporting it in the blood and absorbing it at a cellular level.

3. Have you ever had your cortisol tested? A 24 hour saliva cortisol test is best but an 8 o'clock blood test will give you a clue. Low or high cortisol will also affect how your body uses thyroid hormone.

4. NDT doesn't suit everyone. Some people are worse on NDT than they are on synthetics. Especially those with Hashi's. I belive it's something to do with the hormones in NDT being bound, not Free. But, I couldn't give you the details. You might have to just accept the fact that NDT isn't for you and go back to synthetic levo + T3.

Priority: get B12 and folate tested! Not only is low B12 dangerous neurologically, but it will further lower you stomach acid making absorption worse. It also causes a lot of symptoms that mimic those of hypo.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Priority…..test full iron panel including ferritin and vitamin D ….as well as testing B12 and folate

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Try adding 25mcg levothyroxine and retest thyroid in another 8 weeks

As greygoose said ….NDT doesn’t suit everyone

Consider slowing increasing levothyroxine and reducing NDT

[RedApple]

You've been given some excellent support by grey goose and Slow Dragon. I would just add that the ratio of T4-T3 in NDTs doesn't suit everyone. With FT4 at 9.05, your body has little to nothing in the store cupboard to draw on for conversion to T3 when needed. So rather than increasing the NDT dose, you could try adding some levothyroxine (e.g. 25mcg) to your NDT.

[Gingernut44]

You may just have to come to the conclusion that NDT doesn’t work for you. I thought it was going to be my saviour only to be disappointed. My results were low and every time I tried to increase my dose, the worse I felt, even adding some Levothyroxine into the mix. I wasted a year trying but in the end, have had to go back to synthetic and add in some Liothyronine. If you can only tolerate it with food then I would give up and go back to trying combo.

[pennyannie]

Hey there again :

No thyroid hormone replacement works well until your core strength vitamins and minerals, especially those of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D are up and maintained at optimal levels.

Do you have any current blood tests and ranges of the above ?

Did you look into the suggestion of first ' healing the gut ' - as this seems quite common in people who have Hashimoto's AI Disease - and read around on Dr Izabella Wentz's website - thyroidpharmacist.com ?

[Alanna012]

I had similar problems with thyroid S. I think it is a very potent NDT, and quite effective. It made me lose weight, gave me energy, gave me a more youthful appearance and perfect labs. These remain the most beautiful lab results I've ever seen. Perfect numbers.

But it made me break out in eczema and the insomnia was horrific. Almost scary. You know that film The Red Shoes? Well it was like I couldn't come down at all and couldn't stop doing things. I kept going and going and going. One day I stayed awake for a full 48 hours plus, without even wanting to sleep or feeling drowsy, so I then stopped taking it.. very reluctantly!

Thyroid S has a sort of shell around it and that seems to have some sort of effect on digestion, sometimes I would feel the sudden effect of the hormones hours after taking it. It has a lot of fillers and that likely has an effect for sensitive people

But not all NDT's are the same. I have found they are all different. So I wouldn't assume that because a Thyroid S trial didn't go well, it means NDT doesn't work for you. It just means you don't get on well with this particular one for now.

[Hidden]

It is of course impossible to tell what the problem is, but I agree that not everyone does well on NDT. I did very well on the "old" Thyroid-S (between 2014-17), then I went downhill, and at the same time, my supplier of Thyroid-S sent an email to users informing them that it had been reformulated somehow and was working less well. So, I tried Thiroyd instead, also a Thai brand, but it was discontinued in 2019. In the past few years, I have been struggling to find the best treatment for me. For years, I was convinced NDT was the best option, as the hormones are mostly bound to proteins so I assumed the T3 in NDT was gentler to the body. I also thought that T2 could be useful. But, for the past couple of months, I have been trying synthetic T3 (Tiromel, self-sourced) combined with levothyroxine, and to my big surprise it seems to work very well. It´s also so much cheaper than Thyroid-S and other brands of NDT. So, don´t be afraid to experiment.

[MiaMam in reply to Hidden]

Thank you. I’m now on a combo t4/t3. Novothyral 1/4 tablet which is 5 t3 and 25 t4 plus 25 more t4, so total 50 t4 and 5t3 all doses first thing in the morning. This was given by my endo. I started a week ago but my stomach problems are back and I can’t sleep for some reason. Have a buzzing sound in the ears even though it’s only 5 t3. What’s your dose and do you dose twice a day and what has worked for you ?

[Hidden in reply to MiaMam]

I take 150 mcg of T4 and 25 mcg of T3 once a day and I still have not found my ideal dose. Better, but not optimal.