Advice on metavive or hrt

[BiscuitBaby]

Hi allI just wanted to ask whether anyone has had good results with metavive? Or whether hrt is the way to go.

I've just had review with nhs endocrinologist. I've been on 100 t4 and 15 t3 since December last year. My bloods are

TSH <0.01 (0.35-3.94)

T4 11.4 (8-19.1)

T3 5.7 (2.4-6)

I had bloods done in March but I don't have those results but they were less on the same dose.

I've been working on ferritin.

I've started taking my t3 in one go. This seems to have more or less resolved my palpitations. Possibly that or my ferritin has upped a bit? Don't want to retest ferritin yet.

I still have residual symptoms. Endo not keen to increase t4 or t3. He wants to see me again in September then he said he'll request my female hormones be tested.

I wondered if metavive actually helped relieve symptoms or maybe hrt is more the way to go? It's really hard to navigate all this on your own!

Any advice welcome.

[GlowCoach Administrator]

Can you add ranges for each result please.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to GlowCoach]

Thank you Jaydee1507! I had the paperwork out but got distracted. Ranges added now!

[GlowCoach Administrator]

So did you test as advised here? Leave 24hrs for Levo & 8-12 hours for T3 last dose before test, no biotin supplements for 4 days?

Free T4 (fT4) 11.4 pmol/L (8 - 19.1) 30.6%

Free T3 (fT3) 5.7 pmol/L (2.4 - 6) 91.7%

I would say that your results, if you tested as advised, are inbalanced and you need a little less T3 and a bit more Levo. Your TSH is suppressed anyway so why is the Endo not wanting to change anything?

You need to optimise the hormones that you are currently taking and not change to something completely different.

No thyroid hormone will work without OPTIMAL key vitamins. What are your latest results?

What supplements are you taking?

[BiscuitBaby in reply to GlowCoach]

Before this dose I was on 125/10. Felt dreadful. Ft3 was 3.9 and t4 14.5 same ranges. I take Thorne basic b around 3 or 4 times a week. B vits were all fine last time I tested. Don't have results handy but they were good.

I take 2000 iu vit d3 with k2. This also good.

Ferritin was lowish in March. About 46 I think. Working on that!!

My Dr thinks I might see another increase over the next three months. Its possible! I'm definitely better than I was three months ago on the same dose.

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to BiscuitBaby]

So did you test as advised here? Leave 24hrs for Levo & 8-12 hours for T3 last dose before test, no biotin supplements for 4 days?

It really does make a difference when you last took Levo & T3 so we need to know.

If your FT3 was only 3.9 on 125/10 then no wonder you felt dreadful but it seems odd for that result at 15mcgs T3.

I wouldn't bother with Metavive as your blood results do fine on T4/T3.

Do you have Hashi's and have you tried gluten/dairy free?

Keep working on the ferritin.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to GlowCoach]

Yes, tested as advised. That was definitely results on 125/10. I was on that dose when I took thybon henning and bloods were similar to these ones except t4 was higher. Can't get thybon henning on nhs!! I'm now on Morningside. Yes, have autoimmune with no goitre.

Tried gluten free with no difference. Life's a big enough faff with tablets and supplements to try and go gluten free for no reason!

Planning on retesting ferritin in September/October time. Vitamins due around then too.

[Polaris]

HRT, B12 injections, and Metavive II all changed my life for the better - now an old lady, thankfully not dependent on BigPharma

[MariAngel43 in reply to Polaris]

Polaris, what kind of B12 injections, and what kind of HRT? What is Metavive? I am in the US. I tried different forms of B12 including injections three times and I am getting headaches from Hydroxocobalamin but could be so many other things like Cortisol being extremely low all they long, not sleeping like a baby ever since I got into Menopause; waking up at night with headaches and hot flashes. I had to stop the B12 shots.

[Polaris in reply to MariAngel43]

I’m way past the menopause now, although a close friend of similar age still takes a small amount of HRT, confirmed as suitable by her enlightened doctor.  

I buy Metavive II privately from a U.K. company - The Natural Choice Co.Ltd This may not work for everybody……

Family gene testing revealed our difficulty absorbing B12 and vitamin D, so we obtain this through Amazon.de in Germany (PA forum members in the US buy from Canada I believe)  - More details can be obtained through the PA Society website, or HU PA forum. 

PS Important to keep optimum levels of vitamin D3 for energy and to withstand viruses, infections etc.   Jeff Bowles, researcher, book, “The Miraculous Effects of Extremely High Doses of Vitamin D3”, contains valuable information. 

Best wishes for good health MariAngel43

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Polaris]

Good to hear that you have had positive changes! Thank you for sharing your experiences. Do you still take hrt?

[MariAngel43]

BuscuitBaby, what is ? I am in the USA. Is this some variation of a Thyroid Medication? Why are you considering HRT? How old are you if you do not mind me asking? I am interested to learn how they treat women in their 50-s in the UK, because I am not happy with the way they are doing it here in Alabama.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to MariAngel43]

HiI am 47. I have some stubborn symptoms which aren't resolving completely on t4 and t3! The symptoms fit the profile for low female hormones as well. Joint pains, muscle weakness, dry skin & hair, low tolerance for exercise etc. I just want to feel well again! Maybe I'm asking too much!! I haven't experienced the menopause care yet so I can't really comment on how they do it here. Hopefully someone else might be able to advise.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to BiscuitBaby]

I would recommend giving HRT a trial, your symptoms certainly tie in with falling levels, I would steer you towards the transdermal body identical 🤗

Blood tests aren't really necessary, menopause clinics tend to work on symptoms if you are within the normal age bracket.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to TiggerMe]

Hi Eeyore100Thanks. I am 47. Period just disappeared three months ago. Not had any hot flushes or problems sleeping but it's possible it's the missing link. I'm sick of feeling different degrees of crap! I've has some useful feed back. It's hard to know what to do for the best as a mistake can take months to put right!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to BiscuitBaby]

I never had hot flushes but aching joints etc

I think the hot flushes is a throwback to the hilarious menopausal comedy women😏

It makes you feel more human again 🤗

[BiscuitBaby in reply to TiggerMe]

My mum had terrible hit flushes so I was half expecting the same! I'd love to feel and look more human. The dry skin and hair are terrible. I think I'm convinced!

[MariAngel43]

I do not know what is Metavive? Can somebody enlighten me, please?

[Noelnoel in reply to MariAngel43]

It’s whole thyroid gland from either pigs/porcine or cows/bovine containing nucleotides (someone else may be better placed to explain in simple terms) and also rice bran

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Noelnoel]

MariAngel43 Polly91 Thank you both. Couldn't have put it better myself!!!

Noelnoel does it affect your blood numbers? I just feel so close to being OK. I feel there's a missing piece of the puzzle but I'm not sure what that is?

I forgot to mention above I take pepsin and betaine which might be the reason my bloods are better at my recent appointment. That's definitely helped with nausea.

[Noelnoel in reply to BiscuitBaby]

Hi

Yes it does. I’ve never taken levo or lio because I’ve not needed to so far because Metavive works for me

[Gingernut44 in reply to MariAngel43]

It’s a thyroid glandular similar to Thyrovanz and Thyrogold. Try Googling Metavive to see if it’s available in USA.

[lh22]

Adrenal and thyroid glandulars, in addition to synthetic T4, and T3 have really helped me. There's emerging research about the importance of T2 for metabolism and a good quality thyroid glandular will have all the thyroid hormones T1-T4. I'm also taking pregnenolone and this has really increased my energy levels, and reduced the time I take to recover from a busy day. I think doctors sometimes don't appreciate or just aren't aware how thyroid hormones affect all other hormones and systems in our bodies. Most people who have thyroid issues almost always have adrenal issues too, and for me, I really didn't start to make significant progress until I addressed my adrenals. So I would say it's worth getting a complete hormone panel including adrenal and sex hormones, and 9am cortisol to start off with. You'll probably have to do it privately though, and then show your endocrinologist to see if HRT could work for you.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to lh22]

Hi Ih22My cortisol was low. I did morning cortisol not long ago (can't remember when but recently) it was ever so slightly high. I feel better in myself since that test. Does metavive affect your blood results? I'm wary of tinkering with anything while under care of endocrinologist. I did think he was going discharge me back to gp. And I didn't expect him to look at further testing.

[lh22 in reply to BiscuitBaby]

I was really unwell for so long that I did my own research and have a protocol that works for me by finding a doctor who was prepared to work with me. I can't say if the glandulars have affected my blood tests - I would assume they do because they contain thyroid hormones. I wouldn't get too stuck on numbers but use it as a guide alongside how you feel, which is the most important thing.

I also read lots of medical and scientific articles - I don't recommend this because it can be a lot of work but I was determined to find solutions. Don't feel afraid to ask questions and make suggestions - after all it's your body and your health at stake! If you haven't already, I recommend reading Dr Barry Peatfield's book on the thyroid (available on Amazon), which explains things simply and gives some great tips and advice.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to lh22]

I have been fighting hard to get my own health back! But my Dr's aren't the easiest. Some are OK some not so much! I feel nearly there. Am wondering if its possible to be symptom free!! It just shouldn't be this hard for us!!

[Alanna012 in reply to lh22]

Can I ask how much pregnelonone you're taking? How did you start taking it? Are you taking any other hormones or DHEA?

[lh22 in reply to Alanna012]

I started with 25mg tablet once a day. I am now taking 50mg. I've looked into DHEA but I haven't taken it yet.

[Alanna012 in reply to lh22]

Thank you!

[helvella Administrator in reply to lh22]

DHEA is a Controlled Drug in the UK.

[lh22 in reply to helvella]

That's interesting as it's available to buy .....out of curiosity, which legislation says it is?

[helvella Administrator in reply to lh22]

This:

The list shows each drug’s respective classifications under both the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001. The list is not exhaustive and, in the event of a substance not being listed above, reference should also be made to the published Act and Regulations at legislation.gov.uk, specifically Parts I, II, III and IV of Schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and in Schedules 1 to 5 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001.

gov.uk/government/publicati...

By far the majority of potential sources are not in the UK. They might make it look as if they are, but very unlikely to actually be here. If they were in the UK, they could well be closed down very quickly.

And some might supply other substances than DHEA but make it appear they will supply DHEA.

Screenshot of status of DHEA (Prasterone) in UK

[lh22 in reply to helvella]

Interesting...where's the screenshot from?

[helvella Administrator in reply to lh22]

The link I included! Which has a link to the document I took it from.

Do also bear in mind that anyone in the UK ordering a Controlled Drug from abroad is most likely breaking the law.

[FinneUK]

Metavive had the effect of raising T3 but T4 stayed low for me. I still take it because I can't get other treatment.

[BiscuitBaby in reply to FinneUK]

Thanks. That's interesting. It might be trial and error.

[Noelnoel in reply to FinneUK]

I also have low FT4 with porcine Metavive so I use a combination of porcine and bovine instead

[BiscuitBaby in reply to Noelnoel]

Thank you. I appreciate your time getting back to me. My Dr wants to review me in September so I might do a small scale experiment in the next few weeks. Although I always feel better in summer! It's just so tricky trying to get it all right!