Insomnia? Some good results here

[dayoff]

I've had insomnia since having thyroid issues (even before medication) on and off for years. Recently, since last year it has been constant and extremley distressing. Mostly falling asleep ok but waking a few hours later EVERY night.

I have asked tons of advice and followed many suggestions.

Ear plugs (definitely helps with a husband who is a noisy sleeper) but not enough to cure insomnia!

Valarian root/Magnesium an hour before bed. Helps a little. Instead of being fully awake at 3am, i feel dozier and can drift in and out of sleep. I tried not taking it for a few nights and the fully awake feeling returned. So helped - but not enough for me.

Taking levo at night instead of in the morning. Made no difference to me. Did help others.

Done a full thyroid Blue horizon test which revealed low folate and ferritin and deficient Vit D. Also T3 still on the low side.

I'm working on the vitamins but early days. Will test again in 3 months.

Tried various HRT's, BHRT creams, NHS Patches, now on pregnenolone 25mg and have been for 4 weeks. Apart from sore breasts Insomnia continued.

I tried adding another 12.5mg of levo and I got horrible hyper feelings despite having some hypo symptoms too. I was freezing cold, particularly hands and feet yet edgy and nervous stomach, weird palpitations so may indicate Adrenal issue. Not done anything yet as i've just discovered this.

Bought Barry Peatfield's book. Nearly finished - highly recommend and have more advise to follow from him.

However - the one thing I hadn't tried and wasn't convinced (sorry) was fully gluten free.

By Monday this week I finally gave in and went completely gluten free not expecting much from it and certainly not quickly.

By Wednesday I was sleeping through the night without getting up even for the toilet! This is Monday and I've had 5 nights, undisturbed sleep.😱😱😱. I haven't had 2 consecutive nights sleep since way before Christmas and I haven't not got up for the toilet since I turned 40! (6.5 years ago). Unbelievable. Of course there is the very, very small chance that pregnenalone has just started to work but I'd find this highly unlikely. It's only 25mg and i've been on it for nearly 4 weeks with no change whatsoever and more hormonal issues than when I was on proper HRT.

Brain Fog is pretty spectacular since going on this despite the claims that it helps memory. I've been wondering if I've got dementia at times this last month! SO bad.

I thought I would share this Gluten Free result incase there are any other insomnia sufferers out there. Someone on here told me 80% of hypothyroid patients had over all improvements on Gluten Free so I finally thought it was worth a shot. I am shocked by this result. I have been tested for celiac and it was fine so it never occurred this would make much difference.

I am so grateful for all the advice and i've still got a lot to work on but I feel so positive about going forward. Thank you

[pennyannie]

Hey there ;

Glad to read you can sleep through the night again:

Brain fog is a very common hypothyroid symptoms - do you have any Free T3 and Free T4 readings and ranges.

Yes, Barry Peatfield's book was one of my rocks, and still is, with a common sense explanation and approach as to how to solve issues.

No thyroid hormone replacement works well until your core strength vitamins and minerals are up and maintained t optimal - do you have results of ferritin, folate. B2 and vitamin D ?

Were you diagnosed Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroid disease ?

[dayoff in reply to pennyannie]

Yes I have Hashimoto's. My results were

CRP 0.76 Range - <5.0

Ferritin 58.0 Range 13-150

Magnesium 0.89 Range 0.7-1.0

Cortisol 416.0 Range 166-507

TSH 2.66 Range 0.27-4.20

T4 Total 92.6 Range 66-181

Free T4 17.3 Range 12.0-22.0

Free T3 3.96 Range 3.1-6.8

Anti-Thyroidperoxidase abs 190 Range <35

Anti-Thyroglobulin abs 96 Range <115

Vit D (25OH) 43 Range75-200

Vit B12 404 Range 145-569

Serum Folate 13.80 Range 8.83-60.8

So not in perfect ranges yet but working on it. Maybe I'll absorb better without Gluten dragging me down now. Fingers crossed. Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dayoff]

FT4: 17.3 pmol/l (Range 12 - 22)

Ft4 is only 53.00% through range

FT3: 3.96 pmol/l (Range 3.1 - 6.8)

Ft3 worse at 23.24% through range

Was test done early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

How much levothyroxine are you taking

Your results suggest you have room for dose increase in levothyroxine

Vitamin D far too low

How much vitamin D are you currently taking

Are you taking daily B12 and vitamin B complex

And lots of iron rich foods to improve ferritin

[dayoff in reply to SlowDragon]

Was test done early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Yes

How much levothyroxine are you taking

100mg but tried extra 25mg every other day and felt hyper. Funny heart rate, edgy and wired. Anxious stomach. At the same time - hypo symptoms of feeling cold. Thinking adrenal issue.

Your results suggest you have room for dose increase in levothyroxine

Vitamin D far too low

Now got 5000iu and 100mcg Mk-7 K2

How much vitamin D are you currently taking

Are you taking daily B12 and vitamin B complex

Yes just bought Thorne Basic B and also Meythl Folate 400mcg. Not taking the Folate daily as it's already in the Thorne Basic B but taking it 2-3 times a week extra. Have 4 squares of 100% dark chocolate every night and forcing pate and red meat twice a week 🤢 Lots of green leafy veg, Vit C, sardines, raw nuts and many other things I used to avoid!

And lots of iron rich foods to improve ferritin

I know it'll take a while but glad I done the test to see how low I was.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dayoff]

you perhaps need a separate B12 alongside vitamin B complex …rather than extra folate

Adding separate B12 initially until serum B12 gets over 500 (or Active B12 over 70)

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement and a separate vitamin B Complex after a week 

Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week 

B12 drops 

natureprovides.com/products...

Or

B12 sublingual lozenges 

uk.iherb.com/pr/jarrow-form...

cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...

B12 range in U.K. is too wide

Interesting that in this research B12 below 400 is considered inadequate 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate methyl folate supplement and continue separate B12

How other member saw how effective improving low B vitamins has been 

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[dayoff in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks SlowDragon. I've just ordered the drops.

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement and a separate vitamin B Complex after a week

After a week? Does this mean just take the drops alone for a week then add Basic B?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dayoff]

yes correct.

Important to improve B12 before adding folate

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dayoff]

100mg but tried extra 25mg every other day and felt hyper. Funny heart rate, edgy and wired. Anxious stomach. At the same time - hypo symptoms of feeling cold. 

Was 25mcg same brand levothyroxine as 100mcg

Did you try adding the extra 25mcg at separate time away from 100mcg

Or initially try adding only 12.5mcg …….cutting 25mcg in half to get 12.5mcg

[pennyannie in reply to dayoff]

Yes, you likely right about the gluten :

We generally feel at our best when our T4 is in the top quadrant of the range as in theory this then converts to a higher level of T3 at around a 1 / 4 ratio T3/T4.

You will find it easier to increase your dose of T4 once your core strength vitamins and minerals - those of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D are up and maintained at optimal levels.

I now aim for a ferritin at around 100 : folate 20 ; active B12 75++ ( serum B12 500++ ) and vitamin D around 100 :

Another ' rock ' for your collection - many forum members on here who have Hashimoto's find the research of Dr Izabella Wentz helpful - thyroidpharmacist.com

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Delighted to hear such positive results

Like you, I was astounded at rapid improvement in symptoms on strictly gluten free diet despite negative coeliac blood tests and zero gut issues

….in my case it was the inability to walk more than 50 metres at a snail’s pace. Within days I saw significant improvement and dramatic drop in underlying “anxiety” …..and brain fog slowly lifted after 9-12 months gluten free.

Keep working on low vitamin levels

Retest thyroid and vitamins 6-8 weeks after any significant change…..eg on starting gluten free diet

[dayoff in reply to SlowDragon]

Isn't it amazing! Nothing about healing thyroids is quick but this has really surprised me.

I'll test again in 6 weeks. Good Point. Thanks SlowDragon

[Regenallotment Ambassador]

👏 great news! Imagine how the new rested you will feel over time! Long may that last 🌱

[humanbean]

weird palpitations

revealed low folate and ferritin and deficient Vit D.

I don't know if you know this, but palpitations and tachycardia (fast heart rate) can be caused by low serum iron and/or low ferritin (iron stores).

[dayoff in reply to humanbean]

Ah yes! There's the GP putting me on a 24 hr heart monitor at Christmas. If only he looked at my bloods properly 🙄. My heart acts very weird from time to time.

[waveylines]

Fantastic! So pleased for you. I went GF three years ago. Now I wish I'd done that earlier but like you was resistant to the idea. Eventually I became poorly which in desperation forced me to try. Hey presto new me! I too sleep much better but for me my shape has changed too.Am sure once you can get your other areas of vits minerals up your uptake will be better & you will be able to increase your levo.

By the way if splitting your 25mcg levo tablet & taken daily is still too much, try splitting it & taking it alternate days. It maybe you need to stagger your increase even more slowly..

I was hoping that having gone GF I wouldnt need to top my min vits up once my gut was healed. That hasn't proved to be the case..... But I did need to lower my NDT by a small amount.

[Noelnoel in reply to waveylines]

for me my shape has changed too

Intrigued …

[waveylines in reply to Noelnoel]

I'm gluten intolerant so no longer bloated round waist....flat tummy! A specialist told me I carry the coeliac gene.... but as I went GF a year before I saw him it's too late to test for coeliac. If I eat any gluten am sick. Not prepared to go back on a gluten diets for weeks so he can check that one out!!

[dayoff in reply to waveylines]

This is good to hear. I will look forward to a flat tummy! I tried taking the 25mg every other night but i'll try splitting too. Id like to see my T3 go up. Thanks

[waveylines in reply to dayoff]

Can't guarantee a flat tummy unless you too are bloated from gluten intolerance. You might just feel a lot better though.... wouldn't that be great too. 😊 All takes time.... No instant fixes but you already know that.... Lol

[Thyroid2468]

wow I feel like I am talking to a twin. I too have a very bad sleep issue. It's like a light switch just can't turn off. I have RLS so I take klonopin which helps...but it is addictive and I feel possibly unhealthy so I want to get off of it. I have tried every herbal supplement under the sun! So thanks for posting about the gluten. I have Hashimoto, RLS and something causing internal vibrations so it is time for me to address possible inflammation caused my gluten although I normally don't have obvious issues from it! I will let you know if I too can have better sleep! Keep me posted as a fellow insomniac!

[dayoff in reply to Thyroid2468]

Thyroid2468 I had no obvious symptoms either and no obvious gut issues. I've even been tested for coeliac and it was negative. Doctor was trying to find out why I moan so much! That's why I was so resistant and didn't expect a thing from it. I slept again last night and my period is due this weekend. The week before my period would usually mean there was no point on me putting my jammies on and getting into bed. No chance of any shut eye! Im still shocked and boring the hell out of my friends! Please try it - all of you

[Thyroid2468 in reply to dayoff]

hahahah....not boring at all to me!!!! Just started dating a gluten free guy, easy starting point for me!!!

[waveylines in reply to Thyroid2468]

He can give you top tips & advice on adapting recipes then.... you will have an instant go to conversation or cooking together if he's into that! 😊🤣

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

I never thought I was crazy, but it is nice to read (sorry for you, tho) someone else feels internal vibrations. Mine are not all of the time, but I am, keenly, aware when I do have it. Seems to bother me more late evening & bedtime. Though I could chock that up to paying attention to it as I am always in motion

[Thyroid2468 in reply to terebol]

yup, mine are 24/7. but yes, if I am moving around during day they aren't noticeable. I have been to a rheumatologist , endocrinologist and 3 neurologists and no one knows what they are...they want to just put my on higher dose of pregabalin for RLS...but I am trying to explain to them the pregabalin doesn't help with them at all. what have your docs said?

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

Since mine is notable in the evening, I have been known to pop a couple of ibuprofen and that settles me down, completely. Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory so I must have something causing some inflammation; what, I have no idea. I'm not ready to go the GF route!

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

PS....I have never mentioned the internal trembling to any dr, My poor dr., not to mention endo has me coming in armed w/info, Sometimes, I think they need a break from my researching & anecdotal info! With this issue, though, I don't even know where to start It does not interrupt my life, my sleep, yes, but IB is a huge help. So for now.....

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

google in "why my body feels like it's vibrating on the inside.....answers run the gamut of magnesium deficiency ( my $$ is on that) to MS to anxiety, etc. Sorry for fractured replies as it's near bedtime here in US and brain is slowing down--

[Thyroid2468 in reply to terebol]

I am the google queen and yes saw some of the reasons, but don't seem to have enough symptoms for further testing of MS, etc. I will try the ibuprofen...I sometimes use aspirin. agree it is inflammatory. if I learn anything (being tested for inflammatory markers this week). I am in US too...Let's keep each other posted on private messaging so the rest dont have to listen to our vibrating bodies! lol

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

Agree.......Maybe we are the only 2 people in the world with this internal vibrations!!! HaHa

[dayoff in reply to terebol]

Have either of you tried starting a post with 'Internal vibrations'? You never know, it may be yet another thing that happens to more people than you think with hypothyroidism or another autoimmune thing.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to dayoff]

Certainly many of us suffer from the 'internal vibrations' often when adding or increasing T3 and it seems to be down to lower cortisol levels, I've managed to rid myself of them since supporting my adrenals

[Thyroid2468 in reply to TiggerMe]

what were your vibrations like? and what are you doing to support adrenals?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Thyroid2468]

Hmm... it felt like my bones were vibrating as opposed to a shiver, if I were to rest my weight on my hands for instance it would increase an internal buzzing sensation.

Since getting my cortisol saliva results I've been using Adrenavive and Pure Encapsulation Adrenal to alleviate this and stabilise my temperature

[terebol in reply to Thyroid2468]

Very interesting to read Eeyore100's response to your ? For me it is like a very low wattage of electricity throughout my body. A few times, in the past when I've felt some health issue could be adrenal related, I did do a 4pt saliva test - came back w/good #s So reluctant to keep shelling out $200 every time I think it might be adrenals

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to terebol]

Have you looked at adrenal cocktails? A shot of Vitamin C (Orange juice), Potassium (cream of tartar) and salt which are all needed by the adrenals, there are various other additions or options 🤗

[terebol in reply to TiggerMe]

No I haven't; thank you for the heads up! My potassium was just under average as reflected in Feb. bloodwork, and I've been adding more potassium rich foods. I did purchase Celtic salt late last fall. Whether it was psychological or not, I did feel a difference when salting. Previously, I avoided adding salt to anything, Food does taste better with salt!

[Niadancer in reply to dayoff]

Quite a few people with vit b12 deficiency complain of internal vibrations

[terebol]

I'd not given it a thought as I thought it was just something strange to me that was not easy to articulate. Here you, go, though as someone else has chimed in with the issue thx!