Blood test results for possible adrenal problems and chronic insomnia

[CornishChick]

I wonder if you’d mind casting an eye over my bloods please?

I seem to only be able to post one page, so will also type some results and attach page 2 separately, if I am able.

My thyroid results

FT4 16.8 (9-19)

TSH 0.004 (0.35-4.94)

FT3 4.2 (2.9-4.9)

I take 125mcg levo and 12.75 T3 daily. I didn’t take my meds for 3 days prior to my bloods and laid off my supplements for 2 weeks. They look okay to me, and I have symptoms of adrenal fatigue, but please correct me if I’m wrong!

Vitamin D 114, really pleased to bring this back to my highest after level 22, 5 years ago.

I am surprised to see such a low folate as I take 0.2mg folic acid every day, so would like some advice here please.

My ferritin is consistently lower than ideal despite me eating pate and other iron rich foods. I studied nutrition, so know what to eat, it just doesn’t seem to make a difference. Would really like some help with this please.

I take B12, so assume this result won’t be accurate.

I take all the supplements to support both thyroid and adrenal, and adrenal cocktails. Also LDN, just started CBD for sleep.

My main symptom is chronic insomnia, waking at 1-2am and being unable to get back off. I am therefore often fatigued.

Are my iron levels ok or should I be doing something to help these please? I eat red meat 3 times a week and liver pate regularly.

I see the endo tomorrow, which will no doubt be a complete waste of time like last time, but any insight would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[MtnClimber]

Have you been tested for the MTHFR gene mutation?

[CornishChick in reply to MtnClimber]

no I haven’t. Would it be a good idea with my results?

[MtnClimber in reply to CornishChick]

It might be. Folate deficiency is a symptom, plus B12 deficiency and fatigue. Someone on here with actual medical training may know better than me, but that's the first thing that popped into my mind.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to MtnClimber]

MtnClimber

Someone on here with actual medical training may know better

This is a patient to patient forum. Our forum guidelines state:

2. This is a Patient to Patient support community. Advice from members openly claiming to be medically qualified is not permitted.

You may be interested in this post to familiarise yourself with our guidelines:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[MtnClimber in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you.

[CornishChick in reply to MtnClimber]

worth a look. My B12 has never been too dire when I wasn’t supplementing, it’s more my ferritin that’s always low. The folate was a surprise seeing as I supplement.

I’ve had a Google and reading mixed reviews on that gene test. What is the general consensus on this forum please?

[MtnClimber in reply to CornishChick]

Do you find your insomnia worse during a full moon? Do you have joint pain or fibromyalgia type symptoms?

[CornishChick in reply to MtnClimber]

I did have joint pain when my vitamin D was 22, but that cleared when levels increased. However, I do have a stiff neck and always had painful shoulders, which specialists and physios never got to the bottom of.

I haven’t found my insomnia is worse during a full moon. I am consistently awake by 1-2am every single night for 20 years. It’s only because I’ve fairly recently found antihistamine helps me ‘sleep’ that I actually get some rest now. However, I am well aware that anything other than natural sleep is not the best, and I’d definitely rather not mask the symptoms, and would love to get to the bottom of the cause. Thank you for replying.

[MtnClimber in reply to CornishChick]

Hmm. Being awake consistently at that time usually suggests hormonal imbalance. It might be worth looking at yourself to see if you could have Lyme disease and any Lyme coinfections. LDN is helpful for these symptoms and in my case, being on it caused a delay in my diagnosis even though I was seeing an integrative doctor well versed in Lyme. Stiff neck and painful shoulders are common in Lyme along with a wide variety of pain and neurological symptoms. If you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis or any other autoimmune conditions, it's worth considering "Lyme & Company".

[CornishChick in reply to MtnClimber]

Thank you. Is there a list of integrative doctors who specialise in Lyme please?

Someone also messaged me with a problem liver suggestion. Also, I’ve been told my low cortisol at night releases adrenaline at 1-2am.

It’s definitely not the menopause hormones that caused it when it commenced age 30, as I went on to have two children aged 37 and 41, and still have a consistent monthly cycle, although am presumably in the perimenopause stage now age 49. Your help is much appreciated, thank you.

[MtnClimber in reply to CornishChick]

You can search for a physician here:

ilads.org/patient-care/prov...

Here is the lab many Lyme specialists use. They have informative blogs, too:

igenex.com/

Book by a doctor who had chronic Lyme himself and now does nothing but treat it:

recoveryfromlyme.com/

[CornishChick in reply to MtnClimber]

I have just looked up fibromyalgia symptoms and do actually have a lot of those issues! I have just been focusing on my insomnia because it’s so debilitating. Is there a test for fibromyalgia please?

[MtnClimber in reply to CornishChick]

I think fibromyalgia is more of a symptom checklist and a diagnosis you'd get when no other cause can be found. Check into Lyme. It's at epidemic levels here in the States and that's only from the strictest diagnostic and reporting guidelines. Many people with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, Lupus, MS, Parkinson's, etc actually have Lyme at the root of it all. You can look up the Horowitz Lyme Questionnaire online to see if it might be something you need to pursue. The standard testing isn't accurate, though, so you'd need a functional or integrative doctor to help you get specialized labs.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

CornishChick

FT4 16.8 (9-19)

TSH 0.004 (0.35-4.94)

FT3 4.2 (2.9-4.9)

I take 125mcg levo and 12.75 T3 daily. I didn’t take my meds for 3 days prior to my bloods

I can’t read your page of results I'm afraid they're blurred but I picked up on this.

Why did you leave your thyroid meds off for this length of time? I'm afraid you have rendered them useless. We should take last dose of Levo 24 hours before the test and T3 should be split into 2 or 3 doses the day before and last dose 8-12 hours before the test. The results you have suggest that if you had followed the correct timing both FT4 and FT3 would be quite a bit higher and would probably show that you are overmedicated.

[CornishChick in reply to SeasideSusie]

ok thank you. I thought it was a minimum of 24 hours, so didn’t pay too much attention to it, obviously wasn’t my intention to render them useless.

What do you think about the other results please?

[Jazzw in reply to CornishChick]

There’s nothing screaming out here apart from your lower than ideal ferritin results. Have you tried taking iron every other day? It gets better results in terms of raising iron levels. Taking vitamin C can also help with absorption of iron and is also good for supporting the adrenal glands.

Also, I note the reference to folic acid. That’s suboptimal if you’re looking to raise folate—would be well worth looking for a folate supplement rather than folic acid.

Also—if those were your thyroid blood tests after 3 days without thyroid hormone replacement there’s a chance you’re actually over-medicated? That could be what’s causing your insomnia.

[CornishChick in reply to Jazzw]

I haven’t tried taking iron before. Someone said I needed a full blood count alongside my ferritin before I started iron. So I asked for that this time, but don’t know how to interpret blood count results.

I am aware of iron needed vitamin C to be absorbed and I do take a super high dose slow release vitamin C for my adrenals.

Thank you for your help.

[CornishChick in reply to Jazzw]

Can you recommend a folate supplement please? Thank you.

[CornishChick]

here is page 3

Page 3

[CornishChick]

is this any clearer?

Page 2, is this any clearer?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to CornishChick]

What time of your cycle did you test to make sense of your sex hormones?

[CornishChick]

page 1, hopefully you can read this

Page 1

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to CornishChick]

Yes, much clearer, thank you CornishChick

Page 3 - full blood count appears fine.

Page 2 -

Folate is a bit low, it's recommended to be at least half way through range so that would be 11.5 plus with that range. Eating folate rich food and maybe supplementing with a good quality, bioavailable B Complex should help.

Testosterone is low but I have no knowledge of sex hormones so can't help there or with your other sex hormone results.

Cortisol - I believe it's important to know what time the test was done and there appears to be no range for between 10am and 5pm.

B12 appears to be good.

Transferrin saturation percentage and serum iron levels - Optimal iron panel levels according to rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_... are:

Serum iron: 55 to 70% of the range, higher end for men - yours is 28.57%

Saturation: optimal is 35 to 45%, higher end for men - yours is 25.71%

so yours are on the low side.

Transferrin: Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron, High in range indicates body's need for supplemental iron - yours is at the lower end of it's range at 2.26 (1.80-3.82)

Ferritin is very low in range at 42 (30-200)

Others appear to be in range.

Page 1

HBA1C and Vit D look good.

[CornishChick in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you for commenting. Cortisol must be done before 9am, and it was. Previously was 220, but I had a stressful battle with the nurse before my draw, and suspect that raised my levels.

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but would you recommend I take iron based on these results? Could that be the cause of my insomnia and fatigue?

I do take a B complex, did take one of your recommended ones for years, my I ask if you have a current favourite please?

What else can I do for ferritin when I eat all the high ferritin foods please? Will taking iron help increase this? If so is Floradix one you’d recommend, or are standard iron tablets sufficient?

Thank you for taking the time to help.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to CornishChick]

I do take a B complex, did take one of your recommended ones for years, my I ask if you have a current favourite please?

I'm currently using Vitablossom liposomal B Complex

hempoutlet.co.uk/vitablosso...

Almost identical are

Yipmai amazon.co.uk/Yipmai-Liposom...

Pink Tribe amazon.co.uk/Liposomal-Soft...

I'm not saying it's my current favourite, I started to experiment but serious medical problems and surgery have occurred during this time so this may well have affected levels, I don't know, so I will continue with my current supplement for the time being.

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but would you recommend I take iron based on these results? Could that be the cause of my insomnia and fatigue?

I really don't advise on iron supplements, iron is way too complicated so I only point people in the direction of what optimal levels are said to be and my suggestion is discuss with your GP if you think supplements are the way to go. Regular testing is essential when supplementing iron to ensure that serum iron/saturation levels don't go too high.

[CornishChick in reply to SeasideSusie]

would you say transferrin is at the lower end or nearer the middle? Sorry I don’t understand anything about iron.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to CornishChick]

I mentioned above

yours is at the lower end of it's range at 2.26 (1.80-3.82)

which is 22.77% through it's range

This is what makes understanding iron difficult. Your transferrin is at the lower end of the range which indicates lack of capacity for additional iron (ie you don't need supplements), yet your serum iron is low and saturation less than optimal.

[CornishChick in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you for explaining. How do I go about optimising my serum and saturation iron, if my transferrin iron indicates lack of capacity for supplementing please?

Thank you.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to CornishChick]

I'm sorry, I can't advise. As I said, iron is complicated. I mentioned above

I really don't advise on iron supplements, iron is way too complicated so I only point people in the direction of what optimal levels are said to be and my suggestion is discuss with your GP if you think supplements are the way to go. Regular testing is essential when supplementing iron to ensure that serum iron/saturation levels don't go too high.

Whether or not you supplement with iron has to be your decision or your GPs but if you do please remember to test a full iron panel every 2-3 months to keep an eye on your level.

[CornishChick in reply to SeasideSusie]

thank you very much.

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Testosterone is low

[CornishChick in reply to TiggerMe]

yes thank you, seems it’s always low. I did point that out to the endo last time I saw her and she shrugged it off and said I’m fine. Do you have any further advice on low testosterone please? I asked for sex hormones to be tested as thought it would flag this again. Thank you.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to CornishChick]

If you want to try some, go to your GP and say your libido has gone and they can prescribe 😉

[CornishChick in reply to TiggerMe]

Do you think it could help? I’d try anything to get some sleep.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to CornishChick]

Being out of balance won't help, it's the dips that get you😓 getting all your sex hormones in a happy place is key...trickier when you are still on a monthly cycle with peaks and troughs... it is usually progesterone that is great for sleep. Testosterone is a good back up source for estrogen that your body can convert if needed. I found estrogen helped with anxiety and the 4am wide awake feelings of doom 🤷‍♀️

It's a blessing when the menopause finally kicks in and things all level out, makes the bathroom cupboard chemistry a whole lot easier.

Have you taken a look at Dr Louise Newsom's Balance site... answers all your questions and more 🤗 She rates Testosterone for improving sleep

balance-menopause.com/

Testosterone booklet balance-menopause.com/uploa...

[CornishChick in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you very much. That looks very useful. I’ve just had a very disappointing endo appointment, I did point out my testosterone was low, she said no it’s fine, it’s in range! The entire meeting was a joke, I’ll probably do a separate post to see what other think. Feel very deflated after speaking to her. Really appreciate your help though.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Suggest you retest TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 correctly

Test early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test (not longer than 24 hours)

And day before test split T3 as 1/4 tablet waking and 1/4 tablet at between 9pm -10pm night before test

cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3

£32 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off if go on thyroid uk for code

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

only do test early Monday or Tuesday morning

[GlowCoach Administrator]

I'm sure you must have tried many things for your insomnia over the years so I hope I'm not repeating anything or trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

Have you ever been seen by a sleep clinic?

I don't think you're going to find the cause of insomnia in any blood test, most sleep issues are controlled by the brain. Not sure if you saw this BBC program by Michael Mosley but it has a lot of useful information and tips. Getting the morning light is one that I personally use. I now have some wearable light 'glasses' that blast my brain with light for 30 minutes within an hour of waking. I have a circadian rhythm disorder but it can help many sleep issues.

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m...

[CornishChick in reply to GlowCoach]

Thank you, I have tried a lot of things, but I haven’t been seen at a sleep clinic, is that vis the nhs?

I did think it’s dysfunctional HPA axis, from speaking to a functional nutritionist, but I’ve no idea how I train my brain. I do all the right things with getting lots of daylight during the day and have blackout curtains, plus I wear an eye mask. I haven’t tried the glasses though, so will look into them.

I did see the Michael Mosely programmes which were excellent. Unfortunately immaculate sleep hygiene doesn’t change a thing for me.

May I ask if you take something for your circadian rhythm disorder please? I take time release melatonin, which doesn’t work. Have tried valerian, L tryptophan, protein snack at bed, LDN, magnesium and currently trialling CBD. I also took antihistamine and amiltryptiline last night, because it’s been so bad lately, and actually slept ok. I’d just rather find out the cause than pump myself with drugs. If there’s anything else I havent listed here, please let me know. Thank you!

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to CornishChick]

I've had a variety of sleep issues for years and learnt that the NHS is terrible at dealing with them, at least initially when many things are put down to 'psychological' . No doubt you have found the same. Sleep issues are pretty common to be fair but distressing and frustrating.

Eventually I got referred to a sleep clinic but it wasn't a particularly good one being very small and later moved on to a regional sleep clinic thats huge and lots of information and help there. I now have 3 diagnosed and treated sleep conditions.

The NICE guidelines state you should be referred if treatment in primary care has failed.

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/inso...

The light glasses I use are these but before you invest I would try and check if they might help you. myluminette.com/uk

I take immedicate release melatonin for the circadian rhythm disorder which has really sorted that out. The NHS are very twitchy about its use though and I have 3 monthly review appointments and I think after a year they may and try to get me off it.

From watching the Michael Mosley program they seem to say that some forms of insomnia can become ingrained habits so you need to change a few things to try and break them.

[CornishChick in reply to GlowCoach]

Thank you so much, that’s really helpful. I got my melatonin from Spain, about £7 for a large pot, so worth trying that if you want to continue.

I can’t believe I haven’t been referred to a sleep clinic after 20 years. I’ve just had a very laughable endo consultation too, which was a complete joke. I’ll presumably have to write a new thread for comments.

really appreciate your help thank you.

[CornishChick in reply to GlowCoach]

where did you get your glasses from please?

[Litatamon]

Sleeping - Try one nostril breathing (not the same as yogic breathing). Close one nostril, breathe in and out ten times slowly & deeply. **Do not switch sides.**

Apparently it balances the brain for sleep.

All the best to you.

[CornishChick in reply to Litatamon]

that’s interesting, thank you.

[CoeliacMum1]

Are you of an age to be considered perimenopausal (45 is average start age) at all.

If so and not already having hrt look up Dr Louise Newson she has app and website and few books out that maybe of interest… this area can definitely complicate all our hormones.

balance-menopause.com/

After 45 blood tests aren’t used for diagnosis as our hormones change so much throughout a day not just day by day so getting an accurate diagnosis via bloods isn’t useful… it’s based on symptoms and on the website (linked) and there’s an app, there’s a list of symptoms fill this form (print) and take to GP… ask at reception which is the best GP to see regarding menopause to save making a wasted appointment with a GP who isn’t on board with latest guidelines.

I’ve recently had my adrenals looked in to and I’m perimenopausal at 56 (57 in May).

Definitely sleep disturbances send things off and it’s a big symptom of perimenopause as progesterone (which usually gives a calming effect) is usually the first hormone to nosedive.

[CornishChick in reply to CoeliacMum1]

Thank you so much. My insomnia started age 30 after a stressful event. I went on to have children at 38 and 41, and am now 49 with regular as clockwork periods. Whilst I expect I am perimenopausal, I wouldn’t have been at 30, and I have always woken at 1-2am for a minimum of 3 hours, so nothing has changed. Do you think progesterone could help please?

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to CornishChick]

I’m not qualified to say if progesterone will help. Everyone’s needs are individual and advise you to see GP, regarding any hrt.

Regarding your age now and cycling still, I’m 57 in May and still having periods but more erratic this last year, but doesn’t actually mean some people may not require a bit of help regulating other things, other than fertility… some people sail through menopause others succumb to a few problems and I expect having other hormonal/metabolic and/or autoimmune problems can exacerbate this transition and upset the conditions we also have.

Sleep is very underestimated, it’s restorative and is required to help us heal, if continuously getting sleep deprived it causes/exacerbates stress and anxiety.

I’ve not done this myself but yoga and meditation can help I’m told also not drinking lots of alcohol or caffeine before bed, and not looking at screens can help before bed.

I use calming essential oils and magnesium butter and have magnesium rich diet or supplement… wind down in good time before bed… now perimenopausal I occasionally wake 3-5am (seems to be the hours), and then drop back off only to feel unrested hour or so later. Progesterone helped me, and I know this unless coincidental, as I take hrt cyclically so days off progesterone and those are days I don’t sleep as well.

[Cbreeze1961]

Hi CornishChick I have had a total thyroid and parathyroid removal. My calcium was very high and I was told that after my removal my problems and symptoms of anxiety, low mood and exhaustion etc. would be solved. I am still suffering and have ended up seeing a private Endrocrinologist, he arranged for me to have a 24 hour urine test to see if my adrenalin gland was overworking it was borderline, I am now having to have some blood tests. The bloods I am having have to be taken and tested within 30 minutes of bloods being taken. I have decided to have these done privately to speed the process up as I have felt so ill for the past 4 years. And if I wait for NHS waiting times feel I could wait a lot longer.

I will let you know how I get on as I am hoping appointment will be arranged in near future

[CornishChick in reply to Cbreeze1961]

Hi that’s so good someone is finally helping you. May I ask if you’d mind PM ing your private endo please? I’ve never heard them accept urine tests, seems to just be functional doctors, your endo sounds on the ball!

I can appreciate how debilitated you feel, chronic insomnia for 20 years and no help whatsoever from the nhs, it is a joke. Good luck with your treatment.

[Cbreeze1961 in reply to CornishChick]

hi I am out tonight but will look at my correspondence and get his name and also the name of the blood tests if I can find them. You maybe able to get them on NHS but I’ve felt so ill for so long cannot wait for NHS waiting times unfortunately, hopefully once I get diagnosis and some help eill be able to transfer back to NHS under same consultant. The consultant is based in Durham x

[CornishChick in reply to Cbreeze1961]

Thank you very much. I think these consultants mostly offer zoom these days, and like you say, be good to get a diagnosis and take it from there. All the best.

[CornishChick in reply to Cbreeze1961]

ps was this the Dutch test?

[Cbreeze1961 in reply to CornishChick]

not quite sure what they are called will get full names when I have them and will send them to you together with consultants name. How do I personal message you with info. Nrver done it before ?

[CornishChick in reply to Cbreeze1961]

Thank you. If you click on my name, you then select ‘start chat’, That’s the private message method.

[Cbreeze1961 in reply to CornishChick]

hi ok will be in touch soon x

[Lorraine109]

hi, I suffer with insomnia too. I just came across this interesting pod cast about slow nose breathing ( that’s a very simplified way of describing what it’s about)that i thought u might find helpful too. It’s a bit long but very interesting and worth a listen.

[Lorraine109 in reply to Lorraine109]

Sorry forgot to actually add the pod cast in the last message 🙄drchatterjee.com/how-breath...

[CornishChick in reply to Lorraine109]

thank you very much, I’ll have a listen. Has it helped you?

[Lorraine109 in reply to CornishChick]

well I just came across it today but I’m definitely going to give it all a go. He suggests taping ur mouth shut in bed so u breathe through ur nose 😮. It sounds extrem but I will literally try anything at this point. 🤞