Advice on lowering high-ish saliva cortisol levels

[Juliet_22]

Hello wonderful people!

I've read a few posts here about lowering cortisol levels. Mine is not too high, but it is still elevated on the saliva test and results in symptoms like elevated blood pressure from time to time, high pulse from time to time which stops me from sleeping, tired-but-wired feeling, anxiety and panic at times, lack of focus and concentration.

I'm working on raising my TSH levels, so symptoms might be related to that as well.

A lot of people recommend adaptogens, but here on this forum I read this about Holy Basil:

"Holy Basil should never be taken by anyone with low or acceptable levels of cortisol. Anyone trying it should always be sure they do actually have pronounced high cortisol, not just "a little bit high".

After reading this, I'm a bit cautious about holy basil and adaptogens as well, though I drink Tulsi tea.

I'm also not sure if adaptogens over-stimulate the immune system and are suitable for people with Hashi. I tried them before this situation and they really did nothing to me.

I prioritise my lifestyle, sleep, meditation, nutrition, calories, etc.

I'm on T4 and react badly to T3, even slow release T3, tried T3 several times with awful results.

If you lowered your cortisol levels, what helped you do it please?

My recent results:

9am cortisol: 384 (133-537)

Saliva cortisol levels are raised at 8am and noon:

8am: 25.1nmol/L (high) < 20.3

12noon: 9.9 nmol/L (high) 1.6 - 5.6

4pm: 5.1 nmol/L < 6.94

10pm: 4.9 nmol/L < 7.56

TSH: 4.9

T4: 45% of the range

T3: 33% of the range (this is where my T3 usually is)

Anti-TPO: 195 (<34) (my TPO stay in the same 100-200 range, but I lowered them from 600 before)

Anti-TG: 60 (<115) (my anti-TG has been lowered from 550 before and stays in about the same range)

Liver, kidney, FBC, CRP, folate, Vit D, B12, etc - all ideal and optimum ranges.

[Hidden]

 holy basil, Phosphatidylserine, liquorice root. Additional good quality salt is also a good idea.

[Juliet_22 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, though liquorice root is not recommended for people with BP.

[Hidden in reply to Juliet_22]

do you know the cause of your BP? It could be linked to aldosterone which is another adrenal hormone.

[Juliet_22 in reply to Hidden]

Have not had that one checked, but my sodium-potassium levels are healthy. Not sure if a GP would consider it due to that. Is it easy to do with the NHS doc? My heart was checked, all healthy. The only reason I'm thinking is thyroid and adrenals.

[Hidden in reply to Juliet_22]

When you say that you manage your calories/nutrition do you restrict at all? Restriction of either one (like being low carb or doing IF) can drop your conversion and raise cortisol.

[Juliet_22 in reply to Hidden]

No, eat all the calories I want! I do do IF, simply because not really hungry in the morning and follow my body. I've actually heard IF is good, for as long as you eat your calories during the day.

[Hidden in reply to Juliet_22]

If you try to eat something in the mornings it will likely/possibly bring down your morning cortisol. IMHO IF is good for periods of time but done continuously can reduce conversion, raise cortisol and rt3. Maybe worth a try 😊 normal not to feel hungry if you have high cortisol, so it could be an experiment to try eating something small (protein + carb) to break the fast and dip the cortisol response to the light ketosis.

Do you know your sodium-potassium levels? As with all these bloods there is acceptable and then there is optimal. Within range can still implicate aldosterone issues, but getting that test from a GP would be a struggle (as with most things) your BP will hopefully normalise as you lower cortisol and get more t3 to its final destination ✨

[Juliet_22 in reply to Hidden]

Yes, here is my sod-potass result:

Sodium: 138 (132-146)

Potassium 4.4 (3.5-5)

[Hidden in reply to Juliet_22]

sorry for yet another Q! But when you say you’re working on raising your TSH do you mean TSH? Or maybe mean T3?

[Juliet_22 in reply to Hidden]

Yes, sorry, lowering TSH, made a mistake

[arTistapple]

Me catching up again. So you have tried slow release with no improvement. I must say I was apprehensive of considering slow release because it meant it was in my system for longer and if I had another bad reaction, I just felt it could go on longer! I have not tried any corrective of adrenals but again now that I have decided to leave aside the T3 for the foreseeable future, it’s something I have room to consider. Obviously your TSH is a bit higher than is recommended and neither your T4 or T3 are high but the balance of the two hormones looks not too bad, if low-ish. However I really don’t have enough experience to comment. Can I ask how do you feel? You know this thing about it all being ‘individual’?!? What are the symptoms you are trying to deal with. Is it mainly the BP thing? For me it’s fatigue and muscle pain, esp hip (no arthritis) but combining the two issues are the two symptoms really getting me down. I have HBP but I must admit until the fast heart beat etc I did not bother about it at all. My T3 fiasco has made me notice it more. Not being able to exercise is creating other knock on problems as you might imagine. Sorry if you think I am being nosey. Too many things similar and more info would be useful. I think this type of situation could benefit from close monitoring - something that just is not going to happen. It’s extra difficult to do it on one’s own. There are so many solid troupers on the forum. They have done things I could not attempt at the moment.

[Juliet_22 in reply to arTistapple]

Yes, same here, leaving T3 for the foreseeable future. SR T3 was even worst for me, I don't think I will touch it again. It was a scary experience with a lot of feeling of anxiety, panic and despair. I agree, my thyroid panel could be improved, but overall it doesn't look too bad. Other than HBP from time to time and high pulse, which stops me from sleeping at times, I do actually have energy overall, but lack ability to concentrate for too long. A bit slow to get up, ready to go to bed by 9pm, and at times I feel wired but tired and anxiety, which is not my regular state, but I am working on my adrenals and having more rest than usual. I'm sorry about your situation, exercise means so much for mental health, I totally understand. I am going to try acupuncture on top of 101 things I'm already doing to help my body, read really good reviews from people with similar situations. Let's hang in there, will get there!

[arTistapple]

Yes I started treatment for a frozen shoulder. I have used this sports therapist for years with good results. I just could not get around to it because I was focussing so much on this T3 thing. It was brilliant, I had forgotten how much I missed getting my body manipulated and the after pains have been tolerable. E.g. he found a spot where the muscle was literally glued together and was able to release it. The owner of the gym was there and whilst I was waiting for my guy, he talked about insulin resistance and glycogen uptake impairment (I think mucin) and getting caught in the muscle fibres acting like glue - totally separate and outwith the hearing of my guy. I think I have been undiagnosed for so many years (and my particular brand of hypothyroidism) it’s allowed the mucin to be so very deeply established. Anyways I felt so good for two days - it was absolutely blooming wonderful. With days like these possible (unfortunately at great expense) perhaps I could be happy? Let’s hang in there right enough!

[Hidden]

yes my cortisol rises when my ft3 increases too but I still have symptoms, it’s definitely a chicken and egg thing.

the issue is when people like Julia and myself have problems when we try to raise thyroid hormones so the cortisol can’t be normalised… it’s a jigsaw for sure!

[humanbean]

I've been using Holy Basil for years (since 2015?) for my high (over the range) cortisol. It has helped me a lot. I started at a high dose and gradually reduced dose as required. I've been taking 1 capsule a day for quite a long time now, but recently had to raise back to 2 again because I simply wasn't sleeping. I use this product :

dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/swa...

[Juliet_22 in reply to humanbean]

Thank you so much, this is so helpful! Did you reduce your high cortisol with Holy Basil?

[humanbean in reply to Juliet_22]

I think so. I can't tell for certain because I can no longer do the saliva test due to insufficient saliva production.

[Hidden in reply to humanbean]

have you tried sniffing a lemon before? That can help with the saliva! 🤞

[Juliet_22 in reply to humanbean]

Do you mind sharing how you took it when you were doing high doses please? For about 2-3 weeks?

[humanbean in reply to Juliet_22]

I should point out that I was absolutely desperate when I did the following...

This is taxing my memory a bit, to be honest, so the details are only approximate.

I tried the recommended dose (2 capsules a day) but it did nothing for me at the time. So I tried 4 capsules of Holy Basil then 6 then 8. 8 finally made me jittery and I didn't feel well so I went back to 6 and stayed on that for perhaps a month, then as soon as I started getting jittery with that I dropped to 4. I was on 4 capsules for several months. Then I dropped to 2 for a long time, then dropped down to 1 and stayed on that for years.

I have read posts from people who have found Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) works to substantially reduce cortisol within a fairly short time but I don't know how long people stay on it for.

Phosphatidylserine (PS) is biochemically related to Seriphos but works more slowly than the Seriphos does (allegedly). PS used to be very expensive and was definitely more expensive than Seriphos. I don't know what either of them costs now.

I think Seriphos must be taken for a maximum of 3 months. I don't know if there is a maximum for PS. What I'm not sure of is what happens after three months, I've never investigated it.

There have been no obvious problems with my kidneys/liver/FBC/Thyroid from taking Holy Basil.

[Juliet_22]

So low T3 was causing you BP? How low was it and where did you get it to to relief the symptoms?