Fast heartbeat/palpitations and sweating 😤

[birkie]

Hi everyone 💓

I really need to ask a question, my last blood results on January 31st 2023 show as follows:

T3...3.7...range...3.10..6.80)

T4...2.9..range..11.00..22.00) on T3 only

TSH...6.25..range..0.30..4.50)

I'm currently on 20mg T3 been on this for around 14 weeks as I couldn't get my thyroid bloods done in December due to there being no appointments 😤

I have just received a prescription for 5s so I can increase to 25mg, I'm going to add the 5mg today took my 20mg this morning and planning to add the 5mg this evening 👍

For the past 2 weeks I've been having a really fast heartbeat, it's pounding out of my chest with sweating my question is can the levels of thyroid hormone I have contribute to my heart going nuts and the sweating 😔 ( no thyroid due to Graves disease).

I've looked at everything linked to hypo but can't see that a fast heartbeat and sweating is a symptom, it's the opposite.

Hypo...slow heartbeat,sluggish

Hyper...fast heartbeat, sweating I feel more like hyper than hypo🤦 why would this be??

[SlowDragon Administrator]

You can have fast heart beat when hypothyroid

It’s called supraventricular tachycardia

Fast heart rate and hypothyroidism 

endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/...

The electrocardiogram revealed supraventricular tachycardia with 200 beats/minute (PSVT). The possible triggers of arrhythmia were investigated.

Results and discussion: In our patient, hypothyroidism was diagnosed (FT4=11.25 pmol/l (normal range: 12–22) and TSH=26.37 μUI/ml (normal range: 0.27–4.2)) as a result of chronic Hashimoto Thyroiditis (anti TPO>1/640). 

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/303...

We present a patient who presented with presyncope and supraventricular tachycardia with severe hypothyroidism. Patient responded well to thyroxine replacement with biochemical improvement, the disappearance of arrhythmia after restoration of euthyroidism suggests that hypothyroidism might be the cause of supraventricular tachycardia.

Is your 20mcg a capsule that you can’t easily split?

Add 5mcg dose Approx 10 hours after morning 20mcg dose

Is your GP getting you 10mcg capsules too

Ideally you’d get up to 30mcg as 3 x 10mcg doses

[birkie in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks slowDragon 💓Firstly no 10mgs available 🤦

Second can't split as they are capsules 🤦

These symptoms come and go but for around a fortnight it's been constant, yesterday and today being the worst, I've also got a slight tremor in my hands and a jelly body you know just feel weak, also I'm sweating especially when getting up and out of breath on climbing my stairs.

I had to pick the 5s up at the chemist yesterday and I honestly thought I was going to faint,I was shaking so bad and sweating profusely 😔 thought maby I'm coming down with something but temp is fine.

My first dose of 20mg was at 8am slowDragon so I'll take the 5mg at 6pm👍

But I do wish I could get the 10s🤦 as you say I could split them 3x in the day.. no pharmacy in my town can get them😤

So next move is to do the 25mg split..20mg..5mg and see if these symptoms go🤷

Again thanks for your help slowDragon 💓💓

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to birkie]

Have you contacted any of the online pharmacies

thyroiduk.org/if-you-are-hy...

Pharmacies on the list that say they accept NHS prescriptions

buxtonandgrantpharmacy.co.uk/

chemist-4-u.com/

pharmacy2u.co.uk/

springfieldpharmacy.com/

tollesburypharmacy.com/

Suggest you look up their email addresses

Email asking if they can supply Roma 10mcg liothyronine capsules

Then get a prescription from GP for 3 x 10mcg capsules per day ……So that’s 84 tablets per 28 days

Eventually likely to need more than this…..but then can consider going back to 20mcg capsules

[birkie in reply to SlowDragon]

Actually that's what the GP said he was going to do, get them through an online service delivered to my door🤷 as I said in a post I have no idea how that works 🤦Then I get a delivery on Wednesday this week thinking it's the 5s when in fact it was another box of 20s🤦 so again I'm on the phone to ask the pharmacy what's going on, to be told they have a prescription for 5s and can I call in on Thursday for them!!

So gp as not done the online thing he mentioned 🤷 just sent the prescription to the pharmacy when he knows it's hard to obtain the 10s with them..

slowDragon do you know if you can be hypersensitive to T3?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to birkie]

Email all these pharmacies and ask if they can get 10mcg capsules

Assuming at least one says they can

Request a new “extra” prescription from GP for 84 x 10mcg Roma capsules

Do you think Roma are better for you than Teva 20mcg tablets?

Teva is perhaps easier to get

Certainly easy to cut into 5mcg or 10mcg doses

Teva obviously MUCH cheaper for NHS

Price comparison for

3 x 10mcg doses per day

Roma 10mcg capsules £65 per 28 capsules

3 x £65 = £195 per 28 days

Teva 20mcg tablets £51.54 per 28 tablets

1 and half tablets per day = £77.31 per 28 days

[birkie in reply to SlowDragon]

Never got on with Teva in T4 or T3 but I begged my GP to put me back on the T3 after one GP took me off them😠 and put me back on T4 with awful results,I assumed he'd put me back on Teva which although I didn't get on to well with the T3s we're better than the T4s.But he gave me the Roma, I'm a bit better on the Roma than the Teva, although I've had a couple of bad stomach/gut issues they aren't as bad.

I still intend to try to obtain the 10s and if I've got to go the way you have suggested I'll need to try that, hopefully the 25mg brings my TSH down and ups my T3 , 7 weeks to go until I know🤞

[GlowCoach Administrator]

There are a small minority, myself included that get odd symptoms that are not 'textbook' whilst hypo. It happened to me on a low dose of T3 added to my Levo. Went away again when dose went slightly higher by 5mcgs so hang in there and it should vanish with the dose increase.

[birkie in reply to GlowCoach]

Hi jaydee1507💓

It's such a fight for me as I was also diagnosed with normocalcaemic hyperparathyroidism in 2020, and after speaking to several people on the parathyroid site I'm on they said some symptoms of parathyroid conditions can mimic hyperthyroidism.

If your calcium rises it can cause the heart to beat fast and cause sweating with shaking 🤦

So I'm trying to concentrate on this being maby my under medication first👍

Increasing today..20mg 8am this morning then the 5mg at 6 pm..I'm crossing everything these symptoms go 🤞🤞🤞🤞

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to birkie]

It's more than likely the hypo. Keep a weekly diary of a few nootes on symptoms and see when it vanishes. Good luck.

[Noelnoel in reply to birkie]

I have a miniature precision scale I use for splitting Metavive capsules; is it ok to split T3 capsules Many scales on the market and start at around £10

[birkie in reply to Noelnoel]

I had this conversation with my GP on January 20th as I'm on roma capsules and can't split them, I asked if I could just take the powder out and split it that way.Got a load of "don't do that"!! As you may not get the right amount, also you can wast it meaning you would require more medication prescriptions!!

The pharmacist also was against me splitting the powder for the same reasons 🤦 it's a flipping nightmare just trying to get the right amount of medication we need😠😠

[Noelnoel in reply to birkie]

That’s clearly nonsense. The scales come with a container in which you measure the amount very accurately without spillage

[birkie in reply to Noelnoel]

I'm may need to look into it as I've just spent the last couple of hours with bad cramps and diarrhoea 😭 still feeling rotten, I just can't work out why this is..on Teva I did have constant cramps and diarrhoea until I got off them.Been on the Roma around 14 weeks and have had intermittent cramps and diarrhoea today being a bad day, but started the new 5s 6pm last night making it 25mg☹️ hope it's not affecting my bowles/stomach 🤞

[humanbean in reply to Noelnoel]

Can you give us a link to the scale you use, please.

[Noelnoel in reply to humanbean]

Of course

obscales.com/

Mine are old, photo to follow

[humanbean in reply to Noelnoel]

Thank you, I'll take a look. 👍

[Noelnoel in reply to humanbean]

Pots and lid long since missing

Scales

[humanbean in reply to Noelnoel]

Thank you. 👍

[NIKEGIRL]

hi birkie

I cant add much but I do know 7 weeks is a bloody long way to go. Go day by day. I’m just sending you love and positive thoughts for you. Try and get those 10’s. I know it’s not luck you need but I’m hoping the stars align and the universe delivers ❤️

[Singwell]

If you are getting palpitations, out of breath and sweating I'd recommend getting an ECG. Sometimes your surgery can do this. It's not appropriate for a non medical person to attempt to label what type of heart event you are having but it could be a type of heart arrhythmia. I have AF and quite a few of us on the AF forum are also hypo so there is a link.Please get yourself that ECG and find out. Hidden arrhythmias carry health risks. If you start to feel faint with it along with the palpitations, breathless and sweating it's perfectly acceptable to call 111 and get advice.

[birkie in reply to Singwell]

Hi💓I can honestly say I've never really recovered from my thyroidectomy in 2019 after I went into thyroid crisis, after removal of my thyroid the surgeon handed me T4 levothyroxine 125mg and told me I'd never look back 🤦 if only that we're true, I struggled with T4 and through bad blood results the endo put me on T3, I have stomach and bowle issues with certain medications and absorbtion issues.

I was also diagnosed with a heart mummer some years ago with calcification in the LAD, what's alarming is my bloods show I'm slightly hypo but my symptoms are hyper ,very much like when I had graves!! The pounding heartbeat, sweating, and internal/hand tremors are as bad as when I had gaves😔

Yesterday being very bad, even just going to the toilet felt like I'd run a marathon, also it's very much like a blood sugar thing diabetics get, I had a diabetic friend who had much similar symptoms when she was having an episode... sweating shaking!! I'm not a diabetic got tested recently 👍

Been awake since 4.25am☹️ so far my heart seems a bit calmer, although I've still got the tremors and sweating, I suppose I'll need to see a GP about this, but I'm very sceptical because I know like last time they will blame the T3😔 and try to get me off it instead of actually looking into the problem,I actually saw my GP on January 20th about a report from a parathyroid surgeon noting a nodule had been identified in my neck waiting for pet scan at Liverpool to determine what it is as normocalcaemic hyperparathyroidism as been mentioned by this private surgeon.

So I've got a lot going on unfortunately 😔😔

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

Hi totally unrelated to thyroid but please have your ferritin levels checked and iron. I have been so ill with same heart symptoms as you, I had a ferritin level of 20 but gp overlooked it. Even if your serum level of iron is normal, your ferritin level is the stores of iron you have in your body. Below 30 is iron deficient (stage 1) and causes symptoms as you mention. Stage 2 is iron deficiency anaemia which shows in the serum iron. Doctors only seem to be concerned when you get to stage 2 although you can be very ill at stage 1! I've been taking my own 45mg iron supplement and the difference its made in one week is amazing as the iron you get from GP is hard to absorb and causes horrible side effects. Especially as you mentioned GI issues and malabsorption (I have the same). Hope you get to the bottom of it, once your heart starts playing up your very much incapacitated and I really feel for you. Its frightening and leaves you weak as a kitten

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Sorry for the late reply, got cramping and diarrhoea AGAIN!!😭I'm intending to get a full blood count including vits and minerals, but will need to do it privately as my surgery have refused, hell I had my PTH, calcium and thyroid bloods done on January 31st..a vit d should have been done alongside the pth and calcium to diagnose the parathyroid problem as you have to do all 3 together...but no ..no vit d or any other bloods just the bare minimum, but seeing as my last vit d was done on 17th march last year I'm sure I'm due another this march so maby I can twist the surgerys arm to at least do the vit d🤷

[Singwell in reply to birkie]

Gosh, yes, that is a lot. And getting our medics to join up the dots is a chore in itself. I can only reiterate that it could be helpful for you to track what your heart is up to during these events. Also your BP. You can buy BP monitors that can also reliably track your HR. But, I totally get it if at present it's 'one more thing' especially as you're worried about how the GP will respond via change of meds. Sometimes it has to be one step at a time. I have a breathing exercise that I use to calm my own palpitations. Let me know if you'd like me to share.

[arTistapple in reply to birkie]

birkie I am looking at other options. Just had devastating news this week that my private endo is not going to treat me any more because of the symptoms you are describing. No T3 and T4 increase ‘No’. I have been stopped in my tracks. However the symptoms are not unknown to me. Very familiar episodes over the years - even well before hypothyroid diagnosis. My fear is that my heart is a lot older now. Anyway I am looking at something being at issue with the vagus nerve. I think my trips onto T3 have had an effect that may or may not, be atrial fibrillation. Vaso-vagal attack. It very much resembles ‘over medication’. Today I am going to get my frozen shoulder released and then I will go for chiropractic treatment. Both of these things have helped me enormously in the past. There is absolutely loads of info online and in relation of vaso-vagal and thyroid. Loads of different permutations. PS will also be getting a 72 hour holster thingy via NHS to check out what might be wrong with heart - not until May I am informed. I can’t put too much faith in that because cardiology assured me 22 years ago that “I can assure you, you will not have a heart attack”. Within 3 months I was in intensive care having a heart attack. Certain I was at least subclinical then. However I would say that the sensation of a racing heart is actually worse - or maybe like the pain of childbirth you forget. Anyways I can’t put up with it without trying to do something about it. I won’t be messing around with my medications for a bit! I will no doubt post as I go along.

[Singwell in reply to arTistapple]

This is helpful to me. I had vasovagals for 5 years before starting AF and was already subclinical hypothyroid.

[arTistapple in reply to Singwell]

It’s the ‘after’ symptoms that made me think. The last rapid heart thing I had left me with a chest as if it is closing in, front to back or back to front (not painful just the workout it’s had) an abdomen stiff as a board, constipation like I have never known, feeling faint and nauseous, sensitive to noise and tinnitus annoying me so much. No breathing difficulties. Whole body kind of seized up. Just so like many of the myriad of symptoms I am more used to.

I have gone to my fab sports therapist today and for the first time in ages (since he sorted out the last frozen shoulder) I feel as if the blood is properly pulsing through me. Chest is more flexible. Feel a bit more like my old self. I may be deluding myself but the absolutely scary stuff (AFib or not AFib) just might be vaso-vagal. Extremely unpleasant but not necessarily in itself dangerous. It’s an old and familiar symptom. A bit of hope here suddenly from the depths.

[NIKEGIRL]

you do have a lot going on. I’m really saddened to read this as I know it will be a very anxious and worrying time. I’ve had severe graves and it wasn’t nice so I have empathy for your symptoms. I had AF twice and it was terrifying. If I’m any doubt Birkie call an ambulance or get medical help asap.

[Hidden]

Sorry you’re having these symptoms ☹️ I began to get rapid heart beat when my adrenals were causing issues.

To help work out if you’re genuinely hyper you can look at other metrics like your morning BBT, your bowels, quality of skin and hair, weight. Your bloods are clearly indicative of not being hyper, but for your own understanding it’s good to monitor other bodily signs and symptoms as how we feel is more important than blood work when it comes to thyroid.

It may be that you are simply not yet on enough T3, but if the symptoms persist then I’d look into cortisol in your position. It’s best done through saliva 🙂 hope you feel better soon x

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Hi💓

I'm definitely going to get a full blood work up.. private 😤

I did have very low cortisol about 2 years ago and had that test at the hospital where you sit for a number of hours and they draw your blood.

The results we're I'd reacted to the stimulant and produced cortisol so normal test 🤷never been offered it again, although I do have CKD don't know if that would have any bearing on cortisol tho??

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

sadly the synacthen isn’t much use really. Saliva cortisol is what you need. The CT3M method can be helpful in alleviating some low cortisol symptoms, but it’s not worked in the majority of people as it’s provides a weak improvement at best. Thyroid medication cannot work without sufficient cortisol levels, and you can get horrible reactions to thyroid medicine in the context of low cortisol. It’s definitely worth a saliva cortisol panel IMHO x

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Hi You remembered the name of the test😀 my brain is mush ATM, hot water bottle on tummy my intestines are inflamed, (have colitis/lactose intolerant) honestly don't know what's brought this attack on 😭.

I can tell you something when I was rushed into hospital bleeding from my backpassage and vomiting blood, after 11 days the gastro said I have reactivate colitis he gave me 4 months supply of steroids on my discharge,that was the best 4 months of my life, I wanted to stay on them but we're not allowed, as soon as I weaned off them everything came back😔

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

that is ENORMOUSLY indicative of low cortisol. Did you have a reduction in thyroid symptoms during that time too? It sounds like HC or high supplementation of ACE would be a very good option for you and I’d bet a few pennies that cortisol is causing your current issues too… x

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Actually I'd not been diagnosed with the graves disease at that point, this was in 2015 but my GP sent me to an endo at the end of 2014 because of symptoms I was having.The endos report read:

This lady as had an episode of thyroditis (swelling of the thyroid gland) she had also a low TSH of 0.80..this could be subclinical hyperthyroidism, I would recommend she has regular thyroid blood work up to keep an eye on her levels given the thyroditis episode.

I can only find one test performed about 6 months later only TSH which said NORMAL!!

It took me constantly going back and forth to my GP with symptoms until I eventually collapsed and saw a different GP who eventually diagnosed an overactive thyroid 🤦

I got the cortisol test a number of months after my overactive thyroid diagnosis it took a Futher 2 months and me going into thyroid crisis for them to confirm graves!!😤

I honestly feel let down by the NHS and also feel all this pain could have been avoided if my GP had done the thyroid blood tests the endo requested 😤 (please note I only saw the endos report in 2020 after my son requested my medical records, so I reckon I was going hyper back in 2014👍

Sorry for the drawn out post but honestly it's been hell, and got 2 diagnosis of primary hyperparathyroidism in 2004, and normocalcaemic hyperparathyroidism in 2020..😭😭

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

I understand completely your disappointment in the NHS. I washed my hands of them a long time ago now. Where thyroid disease is concerned they are useless at best and negligent at worst 99.9% of the time. I have just gotten used to the idea that I am alone in this and in fact, I have discovered a lot more about health and myself in general since realising that NHS/doctors are beholden to the useless TSH tests and the NICE guidelines that keep us miserable and ill. There is a reason this forum is somewhere in the region on 120,000 members strong and growing - the largest on the platform. Sadly but hopefully of some comfort - you are not alone in your dreadful treatment. I hope you can get some ACE in you and begin to feel better. I can tell you the books I first read to really get a grip on how to understand stuff for myself x

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Forgot to ask what's HC and ACE🤔

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

hydrocortisone is HC which is a prescribed medication, bio identical to cortisol to replace what you are not making. ACE is adrenal cortex extract, a supplement you can buy that is made from dried cow adrenal gland. Both act as boosting blood levels of cortisol / cortisol-like substances so that you can tolerate thyroid medications better/reduce low cortisol symptoms.

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Yes I was on the hydrocortisone (steroids) flipping brilliant I felt so well on those, but never been on them since my thyroidectomy, never been offered them not even a trial, I even mentioned that my arthritis and body pain went ,along with my fatigue (was diagnosed with cfs/fibromyalgia ME in 2005 after the dismissal of primary hyperparathyroidism ☹️But my GP told me you can't stay on steroids as it can damage other organs 🤔

I found out last year my cousin's husband was diagnosed with Addison disease and takes steroids everyday 🤷

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

yes, steroids can really help facilitate the use of thyroid hormone whether on exogenous hormones or your own and also improve symptoms in their own right. I reckon a private endo from the thyroid UK list is probably a good idea for you as you have a complex history that a GP will be utterly out of their depth with. The steroids being prior to your thyroid diagnosis is not that surprising as all I’ve read would indicate that thyroid disease often begins many years before it shows itself in bloods, so it doesn’t rule out that the steroids helped your flagging thyroid function.

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Hi❤️

I feel after this bout of stomach and bowle problems with bad cramps and diarrhea I need it addressed, I've been on the roma 20s for about 14 weeks and just increased in the last 2 days to 25mg and I've had intermittent symptoms of cramping and diarrhea 🤷‍♀️

I don't know why it's been intermittent? As when I was on teva lactose free I had stomach /bowle problems all the time until I came off it.

I know it's bad when I get inflammation in the intestines which I definitely have had, today they are sore but can tell the inflammation is easing a bit, because I have reactivate colitis I'm just wondering if what's going in my body is causing a reaction, and it's not food because I'm very careful what I put in, I'm dairy free as I'm lactose intolerant to, and definitely have had nothing dairy, just upped the roma from 20mg to 25mg in the last 2 days then I get the bad inflammation/pain and bad diarrhea, I've taken photos of the stuff I'm passing it's just mud no solid bits, also some food looks undigested to me🤔 gp refuse to look at the photos of what I've passed in this last 14 weeks and didn't even want to examine my stomach, took more photos yesterday of the stuff 🤮 I intend to TRY to get an appointment with a gp... 😠 It's almost impossible atm😠 I need a professional to look over the photos of what I'm passing (no blood in it, it's just like mud) I'm terrified to eat anything for the pain.. 😞 But keeping fluids up👍

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

here is a post where I collated some different sources on reactions to thyroid medications in the context of low/high cortisol -

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Very interesting read👍Yes I need to get to the root cause maby my cortisol could be a problem 👍

I have also wondered if you can be sensitive to thyroid medications??

[Hidden in reply to birkie]

I’m no expert, but my impression is that fillers in thyroid medication can cause issues - you mention you are lactose intolerant so I assume that that has been taken into account when choosing your meds? However I don’t think we can be “sensitive” to thyroid hormone itself, more likely we haven’t prepped the cells sufficiently for the arrival of the thyroid hormone (main players seem to be - vitamins, inflammation + cortisol) x

[birkie in reply to Hidden]

Yes I'm on lactose free Roma, but I'm wondering if it's the gelatin in the capsules 🤔 or just my stomach, I saw my GP and mentioned the pain on swollowing food, it gets stuck half way down my gullet and the pain is bad until it reaches my stomach, I can feel it going in, then afterwards I get bowle/stomach ache and loose bowles intermittently not everyday ..so really don't know what's going on ☹️ GP didn't even exam me infact he totally ignored my stomach problems and just prescribed the thyroid roma5s capsules and vit d drops ☹️

[humanbean]

Personal anecdote you may have seen me mention before...

Low iron and low ferritin gave me dreadful palpitations, tachycardia (heart rate up to 150/160 beats per minute), and even severe chest pain. Since improving both of my iron/ferritin my chest pain has completely stopped.

Unfortunately, having developed tachycardia and palpitations, even improving my iron and ferritin hasn't stopped them from occurring. But they aren't nearly as bad as they used to be, nor do they happen as often as they used to. I use beta blockers when/if the tachycardia becomes troubling, but only as needed, not all the time.

As for the sweating, I can't help you there... I've sweated a lot since puberty, over 50 years ago, and have never found anything that helps to reduce it.

[roukounasGK in reply to humanbean]

Another thing to do is test homocysteine. I had normal iron & ferritin, as well as b12 and folate. However, i also had high homocysteine to which i had been given folate supplements even though i was "normal". Once on folate, i too had my palpitations reduced (though not completely gone).