Cellular T3 & cortisol

I must add the following edit since I have researched this question after links were kindly provided - this is what I now understand:

Low cortisol causes T3 to work less effectively within the cells. This is because T3 and cortisol are partners within our cells. High cortisol also causes problems and can reduce the effectiveness of T3 within the cells, hence thyroid patients with high cortisol often complain of feeling hypothyroid even when they appear to have reasonable FT3 levels. When patients try to raise T3 levels in the presence of low cortisol, they may find that the body compensates for low cortisol by producing more adrenaline. This can cause anxiety, rapid heart rate, the feeling of heart palpitations etc. This is usually the adrenaline response rather than a direct issue with the T3. Very often, it is the low cortisol that is at the root. (Paul Robinson website)

I am currently reading Peatfield’s book.

He suggests that low cortisol can make thyroid medications either

a. Ineffective

b. Make things worse.

It explains that cortisol facilitates T3 access to the cell, this is the reason given for why low cortisol causes problems. 

However, how can thyroid hormone make things worse if there isn’t access to the cell? Surely T3 is either in the cell, or it’s not. And if someone suffers negative reactions from t3 containing medications (as I do) then surely this suggests that the t3 is indeed getting into the cell, otherwise how come a reaction at all? I’m confused.

I’ve come across many resources that site the same, along these lines: 

Whatever you may be told, adrenal insufficiency in thyroid disorders is very common indeed and should always be considered at the onset of treatment. Failure to respond to thyroid supplementation, or actually feeling less well, is likely more often than not to involve the low adrenal reserve syndrome. (Peatfield “how to look after your thyroid”)

If, upon starting NDT, you experience symptoms, including anxiety, insomnia, shakiness, sweating, dizziness, feeling spaced out its a strong sign that you may need adrenal support. (Tpauk website)

So, I’m confused… in the case where T3 is causing MORE problems (and over medication and raising too fast is ruled out) how can it be low cortisol preventing T3 to access the cells? Surely where more problems are appearing, the T3 is almost certainly getting access to create these symptoms.

All wisdom welcomed!

[humanbean]

You might find this link (and the rest of the website) of interest:

hormonerestoration.com/Cort...

And this link might be helpful, although you'll have to search for what you want:

hormonesmatter.com/

In the above site the man who runs it is obsessed with thiamine (vitamin B1) but he covers other hormone and nutrition related stuff too.

This might be useful too:

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/t3-...

[Hidden in reply to humanbean]

died and gone to heaven! Thank you

[Pinkpanther2022]

could this be why i get palpitations with b vitamin supplements?

[samaja]

If you read Paul Robinson's The Thyroid Patient's Manual he actually explains in detail the whole physiological mechanism of what happens in the case of hypocortisolism and how it affects T3 and other thyroid medications.

[Hidden in reply to samaja]

I have his book, but I haven’t been able to find anything in the book that explicitly explains how it works. Maybe I have the wrong book. I might add also that Paul gave me direct advice on how to manage getting off T3 and it made me unforgivably ill so I prefer to engage in his work very sparingly. In the absence of anyone else providing much of a useful explanation, I will have to read his blog, but couldn’t face supporting him by buying another of his books.

[greygoose]

Well, sorry, interesting as that explanation is, it does not address your original question because it assumes that the T3 is getting into the cells, and what it does there. It doesn't say anything about low/high cortisol preventing T3 getting into the cells.

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

No, Paul Robinson argues that low cortisol doesn’t stop T3 getting into the cells at all. He says that low cortisol and T3 work together in the cell, and in fact if anything stops the cell up taking T3 it is high cortisol.

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

ok

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

STTM say something different… *sigh* and the confusion rolls on 😊

[greygoose in reply to Hidden]

Well, they're the last people I'd trust! Totally not up-to-date with their information.

[Hidden in reply to greygoose]

yes I think you’re bang on there x

[Hidden]

diogenes I was wondering whether you had an opinion on this… how co-factors often discussed (Eg. fe, b12, b9, D) and cortisol interact with thyroid hormone in cases where people are unable to “tolerate” thyroid hormones… I wondered if you thought it was “pooling” like STTM say (the thyroid hormone doesn’t access the cell at all and “pools” in the serum outside the cell. Or whether it’s that insufficient cortisol inside of the cell is the problem, which is the argument Paul Robinson suggests. If you have the time or inclination I’d be so interested to hear your thoughts… so far I’ve failed to find anything clear on this matter and I think it holds a significant key in treatment.

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Hidden]

No such thing as pooling. If something doesn't enter the cells it is flushed out through kidneys etc. Its all an aspect of hormonal control. Paul Robinson's concept is best.

[Hidden in reply to diogenes]

thanks so much for you time. Do you have a theory about what is going on in cases of “intolerance” (anxiety, agitation, flu-like symptoms) when some people try to take thyroid hormones.

[diogenes Remembering in reply to Hidden]

I don't have a good explanation, except that too much hormone can give anxiety and feverishness.

[Hidden]

Joyya here is the post I made trying to understand the cortisol-thyroid hormone connection, hope it helps a little 😊

[Joyya in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. Will read it

[Hidden]

TiggerMe here you go