As with all things, having a symptom does not automatically equal one possible conclusion, but many variable options. However, I suspect low vitamin D?
These are a few of my current observations;
hair loss, severe headaches, worst when laying my head in my soft pillow; TMJ jaw pain ; unable to sleep; general pain all over, muscles, joints, bones; very painful feet; piercing pain in right side/hip, uncomfortable 24 hrs a day regardless of sitting, walking or sleeping- pain radiates through to my back, lower lumber area.
Last reluctantly granted blood tests showed as I recall 62 ng/ml in summer.... Followed by 56 ng/ml in October or thereabouts.
Knowing from this excellent forum that for Hashimoto's thyroid sufferers, optimum levels of vitamin D3 need to be in the region of 80 to 100 ng/ml (hopefully I've got my "mols" right as I feel I'm losing my marbles!)... I couldn't believe it when I found this statement!
" The most accurate way to "measure" how much vitamin D is in your body is the 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood test. A level of 20 nanograms/milliliter to 50 ng/mL is considered adequate for healthy people. A level less than 12 ng/mL indicates vitamin D deficiency.28 Jul 2020 "
The "adequate" levels astound me!
I would please like advice of supplementation in the form of;
a/ strength of gel tablet
b/ duration length of supplementation and equally...
c/ the strength of required accompanying 'cofactors' as I believe they are called.
One reads rather a lot about the dangers of 'over supplementation', so expert advice would be much valued. I am currently feeling very unwell, have just seen a consultant and as good as he was I don't think he was concerned that my levels of vitamin D were only in the mid 50's range. I am weary of coming up against a brick wall in the medical profession when it comes to nutrition and am feeling very spent and very low.
Many thanks,
Kind Regards
Poppy the Cat
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Poppy_the_cat
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In the UK we usually see nmol/L as the unit of measurment but I think ng/ml is occasionally used, possibly in Scotland?
The Vit D Society and Grassroots Health both recommend a level of 40-60ng/ml (or 100-150nmol/L) with a recent blog post on Grassroots Health recommending at least 50ng/ml (or 50nmol/L).
So your levels at 62ng/ml and 56ng/ml are spot on.
I haven't seen anything that says Hashi's patients neeed 80-100ng/ml. Do you have a link for this or is it something a member has said and not backed up with evidence?
The NHS lab which does Vit D testing for the general public cautions that lelvels above 220nmol/L (or 88ng/ml) are considered high and increase the risk of toxicity:
I'm recovering from an allergic response to rice at the moment... Something else I can't eat, to add to the other 17 intolerances I have... Feeling very unwell. I will trawl through my saved documents and get back to you. Many thanks. Poppy
So your latest result is from June and may be less now due to being winter months when we can't make any Vit D naturally from the sun. So let's imagine it may have dropped a bit more. It wont be deficient but might be inadequate.
If I were you I'd be looking to supplement with 5,000iu D3 for now and then retest at the end of March, you may then be able to reduce the dose because from March to October we should be able to make some Vit D from the sun.
My suggestion would be a good, clean supplement with no excipients to possibly upset you. I have always done very well with Doctor's Best D3 oil based softgels, just D3 and extra virgin olive oil. The oil aids absorption of the D3 so you don't necessarily have to take them with the fattiest meal of the day. I often find Dolphin Fitness best for price but compare with Amazon and Ebay, also possibly BigVits, and take any P+P into account.
Cofactors are magnesium and Vit K2-MK7.
Magnesium helps the body convert D3 into it's usable form. You need to check which form of magnesium is best suited for you, they all do different things. Check here:
Magnesium needs to be taken 4 hours away from thyroid meds. Average dose is around 350-450mg so see what the pack suggests.
D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and Vit K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc. 90-100mcg K2-MK7 is enough for up to 10,000iu D3. Comes in tablet, capsule and liquid forms. Tablets and capsules need to be taken with dietary fat as it's a fat soluble vitamin, so either fattiest meal of the day or something like cheese, full fat yogurt, buttered toast, etc.
For Vit K2-MK7 I like Vitabay or Vegavero brands which contain the correct form of K2-MK7 - the "All Trans" form rather than the "Cis" form. The All Trans form is the bioactive form, a bit like methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid. These brands are not always easy to find as they are German brands so go out of stock then there's usually a wait for them to come back. Amazon and Ebay sometimes have them or you can order direct from their own websites which are in German.
If they only have the 200mcg dose ones you can still use them but take alternate days to average the 100mcg recommended daily dose.
I cannot thank you enough for the care and the time you have taken to reply to me in your excellent post. I could cry. In fact I am tearing up as I write.
Personally I would never use them, simply because of the number of excipients they contain. I try to find supplements with the least number of excipients possible, considering the number of supplements I take, along with necessary medication, it all adds up.
For D3 I use Doctor's Best softgels, nothing in them excepot D3 and extra virgin olive oil, for K2-MK7 Vegavero capsules contain only K2-MK7 plus ground linseed flour and Vitabay do oil based drops.
Another thing I don't like about the sprays or combination drops is that the balance of D3 to K2 is not always good. We don't need more than 100mcg K2-MK7 so if, for example, you needed 5,000iu D3 then the BetterYou spray would give 125mcg K2, Vegavero combined spray gives 800iu D3 and 75mcg K2-MK7 so if you wanted approx 2,500iu D3 you'd be getting 225mcg K2.
Thanks. Re "We don't need more than 100mcg K2-MK7", Id be interested in a Reference if you have one. I presume youre concerned about waste/cost as I understand K2 is safe even at higher doses.
For every 5,000–10,000 units of D3 being recommended and tested for, we are recommending 100 mcg of K2 mk7 to be sure and prevent the inappropriate calcification that higher doses of D3 alone could cause.
The recommended adequate intake of vitamin K you take in, both from food and other sources is below. Most people get enough vitamin K from their diets.
There follows a table which suggests
Women, pregnant or breastfeeding (19-50) - 90 micrograms/day
Men 19 and up - 120 micrograms/day
There have been no adverse effects of vitamin K seen with the levels found in food or supplements. However, this does not rule out danger with high dose. Researchers have not set a maximum safe dose.
Further articles discuss treatment for osteoporosis and improving bone and cardiovascular health and the recommended doses are a bit higher than taking it for preventing calcification when taking D3. It's the calcification that I concentrate on when I suggest the dose should be 90-100mcg, if anyone has osteoporosis or bone or heart problems that's something altogether different.
The 2013 study in the Netherlands discussed above (8) used a dosage of 0.18 mg/day (180 µg/day) of Vitamin K2 Mk7 supplements.
In his book, Vitamin K2: The Missing Nutrient for Heart and Bone Health, Dr. Dennis Goodman, a cardiologist in New York City, also recommends between 150 to 180 µg/day of MK-7 Vitamin K2 (16).
One recent, double-blind, randomized clinical trial investigated the effects of supplemental MK-7, MenaQ7 (NattoPharma ASA, Hovik, Norway), within a 3-year period for a group of 244 postmenopausal Dutch women.54 The researchers found that a daily dose of 180 mcg was enough to improve bone mineral density, bone strength, and cardiovascular health.
Thank you SeasideSusie. I too take the Dr's best vitamin D . Than you. But I took 2000IU and my vitamin D was very low . It was in the thirty's. May I ask you how much vitamin D you take? Thank you.
I had severe deficiency and once I got my level up to that recommended by the Vit D Society and Grassroots Health I find that I need 5,000iu x 6 days a week to maintain that level. It's quite a high dose and not many people would need that amount as a maintenance dose but for me any lower and my level falls. I don't make Vit D from the sun in the summer, I can't sit out in it as even through clothes I feel my skin burning after about 5 minutes.
In your wide experience would I need to supplement my vitamin D given how awful I am feeling; the pain in my hip/side is so bad it's stopping me sleeping.?
My last test in June showed me at 58 nmol/l when I had none of the pain or symptoms I am currently dealing with. Getting tested with my practice for anything is difficult at the best of times.
Recent experience with a home kit finger prick test was not good. Struggling to get tested again is just going to be too much. Can one logically assume mid January that my levels will be lower than 58?
In your wide experience would I need to supplement my vitamin D given how awful I am feeling; the pain in my hip/side is so bad it's stopping me sleeping.?
I had Vit D deficiency with a level of 15nmol/L. I didn't have all those symptoms you've listed, my most obvious symptom was stiff ankle joints and basically shuffled first thing in the morning until my ankles/feet eased. I'm afraid I can't comment on all those symptoms you've mentioned, I just don't know if they're related.
Recent experience with a home kit finger prick test was not good. Struggling to get tested again is just going to be too much.
If you use the NHS lab which offers Vit D testing to the general public it's not the same as a Medichecks or Blue Horizon fingerprick test. You don't collect drops of blood in a vial, it's a dried blood spot test - just 4 drops of blood on a card which you can see in this video at around 1 minute 30 secs.
Can one logically assume mid January that my levels will be lower than 58?
Without supplementing then yes. Most but not all of us make Vit D from the sun in the summer. So if y our level was 58 in the summer then from October onwards you wont have made any Vit D naturally so one would expect to see your level lower now if you don't supplement.
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