Overmedicated on NDT-symptoms backwards, iron better

[Xheila]

I got my latest test results:

TSH 0.01 (0.40-4.50 ng/dL)

FT4 1.5 (0.8-1.8 ng/dL)

FT3 5.2 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)

I have not changed the amount of Armour since late May, still on 180mg, but my FT3 has risen a great amount. On September 30, it was 4.4. I was not expecting such a difference in results, do you know what might explain this? I tested exactly the same way, split doses the previous day and tested 11 hours after my last dose. More importantly, how much should I reduce from 180mg?

Also, if you can help, I seem to always have the opposite symptoms of what I should have. When I am undermedicated (hypo) I get insomnia. Now that I am overmedicated, I can't stop sleeping. I've been keeping a sleep log the past 2 weeks, and I average 11 hours/night now, with debilitating fatigue. Why am I backwards?

The good news is my iron has improved:

Iron total 178 (40-190 mcg/dL), Down from 208

Ferritin 51 (16-232 ng/mL) Never been higher than 27, so this is a HUGE improvement

% saturation 54% (16-45%) still too high

Iron Binding Capacity 329 (250-450 mcg/dL) I don't know what this means

My vitamin D remains low at 33 (30-100 ng/m) so I'll resume supplementing. I was taking 10,000 IU for 4 months and then 5,000 IU most days in summer, but I haven't taking it much for the past month and a 1/2 after I ran out of pills and this liquid one I have is too horrible to consume. I thought this would have improved but it hasn't budged. I always buy the Vitamin D with K2. So I should probably buy 10,000 IU again because it is now the darkest part of the year. If you have other suggestions, I would love to hear them!

[greygoose]

You have Hashi's, don't you. So, that's probably the reason for your sudden rise in FT3. If you really feel hyper, stop your NDT for a couple of days and then see how you feel. If you don't feel hyper, then just carry on as you are.

I would disagree that your symptoms are 'backwards'. Sleeping difficulties can be either hypo or hyper symptoms.

[Xheila in reply to greygoose]

Yes, I have Hashi's. I don't feel hyper, I feel like the textbook definition of hypo. Are you saying that my FT3 spike is most likely temporary? It's all really confusing.

[greygoose in reply to Xheila]

Yes, I expect it is temporary. It's not logical to think that a level can suddenly shoot up from 4.4 to 5.2 for no reason like that, whilst still on the same dose. You may have lost/gained weight, or changed your diet, or whatever, but nothing would have caused such a big change. So, if you feel ok, just ignore it. It's not that much over-range, anyway.

[Xheila in reply to greygoose]

I see. Do you know if there is any reason ferritin changed so dramatically as well? I've always struggled with raising ferritin bc I can't take iron with my serum iron at or above range. Here are the ferritin results from the past 5 years: 13, 24, 13, 20, 22, 18, 27, 51. I wanted to put in a chart, but when it was on the chart, the 51 still looked very low, lol. The 27 result was from September 30 as well.

[greygoose in reply to Xheila]

I can't know for certain, but it could be that your improved level of FT3 has raised your stomach acid so that you are now digesting better and therefore absorbing nutrients better.

[Xheila in reply to greygoose]

Yes, my stomach acid had definitely improved. I was saddened when my illness made my favorite foods indigestible, coconut milk ran right out the other end. But now that spicy Thai curry makes me feel good again. 🙂

[shaws]

Did you leave a gap of 24 hours between your last dose of thyroid hormones and fast (no food only water) before your blood test?

Blood tests were introduced along with levothyroxine T4 only). Before that, our dose of NDTs was judged upon how our symptoms were being resolved.

This is a background from a scientist which might be helpful:-

thyroiduk.org/further-readi...

The best way to judge our dose is by 'how we feel' and that should be -well with no clnical symptoms.

[Xheila in reply to shaws]

I split my dose of NDT the day before labs and took 1/2 dose 26 hours before blood test and 1/2 dose 11 hours before blood test.

My symptoms have not resolved, but they have evolved. I have never slept enough since getting ill with Hashi's, but the past month I've been oversleeping. For most of the past year, I 've felt mostly well, but I have once again started dropping things out of my life because I just don't have the energy to do much of anything.

[shaws in reply to Xheila]

Sometimes it could be a change if some sort in the tablet that could affect us.

Try taking one-antihistamine tablet one hour before your next dose is due and see if that makes a difference.

I've never split doses as I read that our T3 receptor cells have to be saturated and it then sends out 'waves' lasting between one to three days (This was stated by Dr John Lowe who was an Adviser to Thyroiduk.org.uk before his accidental death. He was a researcher/doctor and expert in the use of T3 and would never, ever prescribe levothyroxine) This is a link to Dr Lowe:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[pennyannie in reply to Xheila]

Hey there again :

Your increased ferritin might have something to do with your improved conversion of the T4 to T3 ;

Yes your vitamin D still needs building up and I can't see B12 or folate levels here :

My T3 is over range at 11 hours but I'm no way hyper and most definitely hypo :

If your self medicating I shouldn't worry too much but if you've a doctor sitting on your shoulder he is likely to suggest a dose reduction.

However if this is a Hash[s flare and your antibodies are high this fact might get you off the hook since you say you feel more hypo and hyper and so a dose reduction not likely the best option at this point in time.

The ranges were designed to be used with Big Pharma's synthetic T3 and T4 and not for NDT so use as just a guide and listen and trust what your body is saying.

[Xheila in reply to pennyannie]

They won't test my antibodies any more, and where I live, I cannot order my own lab tests. It would be very useful to know if this is a Hashi's flare. Since I can't find that out, I will just have to assume this is a flare. It seems like you all concur that going from 4.4 to 5.2 in 7 weeks is not really possible when I haven't changed my dose, unless it is a Hashi's flare.

Folate and B-12 were last checked in April, but I supplement with methylfolate 400 mcg and methylcobalamin 2500 mcg. In April, folate was >24 (reference: normal >5.4) and B-12 was 803 (200-1100 pg/mL).

I am very fortunate with my endo. He generally accepts that I know what is best and lets me guide my treatment for the most part. My first appointment with him lasted an hour, and he actually listened!

[pennyannie in reply to Xheila]

A high ferritin can be caused by inflammation - but you are currently way under 70 which is said to be " at least " where ferritin needs to be to assist in the conversion of thyroid hormone replacement.

[Imaaan]

Ferritin 51 (16-232 ng/mL) Never been higher than 27, so this is a HUGE improvement

^^^ Its possible that you're converting more due to you improving ferratin levels albeit they still have a way to go.

[Xheila in reply to Imaaan]

Thanks, I hadn't considered that. I wish I knew what raised my ferritin. I tried MSM last month, but only lasted 6 or 7 days because it had a bunch of side effects, mostly pounding heart and insomnia.

[Imaaan in reply to Xheila]

Hopefully youre able to pin point it so you can continue improving your ferratin levels

[Incoguto]

Treating thyroid is not a static thing. Not one dose is forever. Your body changes all the time. It can happen that you take 180 Armour for a long period of time and it is becoming too much for you one day after many months or years (or not enough). My symptoms are also confusing, overmedication makes me unbelievably fatigued, my skin hair gets dry, I look puffy. They are also my hypo symptoms. You can try to reduce your dose by 1/8 or 1/4 and see if it improves anything? Or add, but with these results, not sure I'll be adding anything. The only way to find out is to try unfortunately.