Should I convert to Armour Thyroid as feel no better on just T3. Anyone had similar situation?

[zoechal]

Hi all,

I am currently on 50mcg T3 but wondering if I should try Armour Thyroid again as I still feel utterly rotten. Here are last month's blood test results

Serum TSH level - 0.7mu/L0.27 - 4.20mu/L

! Serum free T4 level - 5.8pmol/L12.00 - 22.00pmol/L

Serum free T3 level - 3.6pmol/L 3.10 - 6.80pmol/L

Red Blood Cell Count – 5.07 – 3.80-4.80

Lymphocyte count – 3.87 - 1.00-3.00

Differential white cell count – occasional atypical lymphocytes present

I'm at a loss to know what to do as everytime I have tried T4 in the past I have had high anxiety, palpitations, sweating etc even on a low dose.

Any suggestions very welcome

[pennyannie]

Hello Zoechal ;

I don't know the answer because I've never been where you are.

What I would say is that no thyroid hormone replacement works well if ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D are not optimal levels, and conversion can also be compromised by inflammation, depression, dieting, any physiological stress ( emotional and physical ) and or dieting or ageing.

I take Natural Desiccated Thyroid and in my opinion it is very different from synthetic thyroid hormone replacement and worth considering once you have built up your core strength vitamins and minerals.

[zoechal in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you! Is it worth switching tomorrow perhaps just to feel better I wonder or will it not work if vits and minerals are down. My Vit D and B12 are good. Folate low and Ferritin 39

[pennyannie in reply to zoechal]

I read that ferritin needs to be over 70 to support conversion of T4 into T3 :

Ranges vary so aim for at least half way through whatever the range is that you have there .

I find I need to maintain my ferritin at around 100 : Vitamin D at around 100 :

Vitamin B12 active at over 70 + / serum B12 at 500 + and folate at around 20 :

If you work your core strength up to optimal maybe your existing symptoms will improve:

T3 is generally seen as the last resort, after exhausting T4, and T3/T4 combo options.

Natural Desiccated Thyroid DT is pig thyroid dried and ground down into tablets referred to as grains, and contains all the same known hormones as that of the human gland.

Each grain contains trace elements of T1. T2 and calcitonin plus a measure of T3 at around 9 mcg and a measure of T4 at around 38 mcg per grain.

Depending on where you live sourcing T3 and or NDT is not easy so this is something else you may need to consider as prices have risen substantially owing to there being fewer sources available to purchase from when without a prescription.

If you are fortunate enough to have a prescription I guess it's a different ball game.

[zoechal in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you that's extremely helpful. How do you get your ferritin up? I have tried ferrous sulphate but no improvement. 🤦

[pennyannie in reply to zoechal]

It takes ages to build up ferritin - it took me over a year just to get from 22 to around 50 : and If the tablets are tolerable just keep going or maybe try a liquid preparation ?

Having just read that you have Hashimoto's it's common to have stomach issues and this may well be why you are not able to absorb the ferritin supplements.

I read of several forum members recommending the writings of Dr Izabella Wentz as she too has this disease and suggests healing the gut first before all other health issues.

[nellie237 in reply to pennyannie]

Hi Pennyannie,

I know that everybody is different, but can I ask you what you were taking to get your ferritin up?

[pennyannie in reply to nellie237]

I think if you can tolerate the Ferrous Fumarate I started with that 3 x 322 a day :This didn't suit me and I wasn't offered anything else :

I purchased Solgar Gentle Iron and that was ok and didn't upset my stomach - I also took liquid iron Spatone x 3 Sachets and I also ate liver twice a week:

There are other preparations and stronger liquid iron than I purchased :

I now maintain my ferritin at around 100 by supplementing weekly with a tub of Asda frozen chicken livers : these are very clean and mild and I defrost and flash fry in a little olive oil and then blitz down into a pate and I keep in the fridge.

A spoonful a day, with a dollop of Hellman's helps this medicine go down.

[zoechal in reply to pennyannie]

That's great can I ask what brands you use

[zoechal in reply to zoechal]

For vitamin d and b12

[pennyannie in reply to zoechal]

I've just detailed above but there are several liquid iron products that I haven't tried, at stronger levels than Spatone - just as there are other iron tablets that made be better absorbed than those I purchased -

You'll need to look around and see what you think suits you best and it's all bit of trial and error I'm afraid, but you will need patience building up ferritin.

[pennyannie in reply to zoechal]

Just another thought :

I think there is liquid T3 - which again, may help with absorption :

[helvella in reply to pennyannie]

The only official liquid T3 I know of is Liotir from Italy.

Not suitable for everyone as is contains a significant amount of alcohol (ethanol). And not available in the UK.

Generally it is claimed that people absorb T3 pretty well (quoting something like 90 to 95%) even in tablet form.

(There are several things offered for sale as liquid T3 - every one of which seems to have been knocked up in a kitchen or garage. And plastered with "Not for human use. For research purposes only." or some other form of words they hope acts as a disclaimer against government action and legal liability. Most of them in the USA. I wouldn't touch any of them.)

[pennyannie in reply to helvella]

Oh, I'm sorry I'm leading someone up the garden path :

Must check my facts again :

Apologies :

[helvella in reply to pennyannie]

But you were right that there is a liquid T3 product!

[zoechal in reply to helvella]

Today I have started with 1 grain of Armour Thyroid and I will supplement with 20mcg of T3 and see what happens....I will work to get all my vits up

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Was test done as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water

Day before test did you split T3 into 3 doses roughly 8 hours apart

20mcg at 7am and 20mcg at 3pm and Last 10mcg dose T3 roughly 8-12 hours before test

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last tested

[SlowDragon Administrator]

As you have Hashimoto’s are you on absolutely strictly gluten free diet

[zoechal in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for replying

[zoechal]

I am on a strictly gluten free diet and yes to when the doses were taken before the test.

Taking Better You Multi vit

Ferritin was tested earlier in year and was 39. I'll find results for folate and B12

[Jazzw in reply to zoechal]

What happens if you go higher than 50mcg liothyronine? Have you tried that?

[zoechal in reply to Jazzw]

I have been upto 60 and maybe I should try that again if armour thyroid doesn't work. Thank you

[Jazzw in reply to zoechal]

No worries. I know that I’ve read in the past (and obviously it’s just one opinion) that 60mcg is about average for a full replacement dosage of T3 only. And your FT3 results would suggest that 50mcg isn’t enough.

[zoechal in reply to Jazzw]

Thank you. I think that's probably right

[abby3216]

By any chance were you taking Biotin two weeks before your test? It really messes up your thyroid labs.

[zoechal in reply to abby3216]

No I havent been taking Biotin