Just expressing blood results without T3

[Cup-cake7]

Hi all

I hope the weather is suiting and D3 soaring 🙃

Just to briefly update I've been upping levo to trial it for a good while, and up to 125 now although it always been near top,of range anyway. . And t3 near bottom

I'm wondering if I'm stored up in RT3 I'm still unsure about it? Am I right to say that it goes with adequate t3?

Does it make you feel ill? I always feel very ill or quite ill or a bit better

Sometimes I get pains under shoulder blades, and hip groin agony, then that feels ok today but energy in boots, I wish I knew in simple terms exactly what happens to fluctuate like this ?

- had my bloods done. The endo sent me an envelope

For first time ever my tsh is under 3

Tsh. 1.1

T4. 16. (7 to. 17)

T3 WASNT Done. I'm so,upset about this 😔????????! How can this be ?

B12 810. (145 - 900)

D. 173. (50 - 250)

Folate. 24. (3 -20). This is over. Does it matter much? I took methyl

So il get back with t3 result come what may, il buy it if the secretary doesn't call me back

Then maybe I can take advise to proceed please I felt I had to exhaust the levo theory even though it appeared that I'm a bad convertor I know iodine is a sensitive , I do wonder if for some of us it is relevant , Medichecks have stopped testimg it

Symptoms are the same, brain fog depression anxiety Frustration! Big Fatigue stiffness when standing

Thanks for being here ❤️

Also I'm not good with pork so,don't think ndt would be the best choice if needed , id to chemical or, bovine I suppose

My telephone appointment is in July, endo is away until then. I wonder where he's gone to lol

[greygoose]

I'm wondering if I'm stored up in RT3 I'm still unsure about it? Am I right to say that it goes with adequate t3?

If your FT4 is right up the top of the range, it's pretty certain that your rT3 is high. It's a safety measure, to stop you converting too much T4 to T3. But, it doesn't 'store up'. It's only in the system for about two hours, and then is converted to T2, then to T1, and then the iodine is recycled - iodine is always recycled, which is why you don't want to take too much of it.

No, you're not right to say it goes with adequate T3, that is a myth. It goes with a lower dose of T4. If that means you need to take T3, then that's another thing entirely. T3 is not a 'cure' for rT3.

Does it make you feel ill?

No, it doesn't. It's inert. What makes you feel ill is the low FT3 when you can't convert. Nothing to do with rT3.

I know iodine is a sensitive , I do wonder if for some of us it is relevant

If you are taking thyroid hormone replacement, you will be getting iodine from that. 100 mcg levo contains 65 mcg iodine. It's doubtful you would need more.

Symptoms are the same, brain fog depression anxiety Frustration! Big Fatigue stiffness when standing

Symptoms of low T3. They won't go until you get enough T3 into you. So, yes, you would be better off sourcing it yourself. Hopefully, someone reading this post will PM you to tell you where to buy it. If not, write a new post, asking just that.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

T h a h k u. GG

...im getting close

After all your past patience I realised i an poor convertor probably

But i hadn't gone the Levo route to eliminate

Today you can imagine it was unbelievable after so long to find im now tsh 1.1 After being 3.5 or 4

The 125 levo and supps have brought this but still up creek without a paddle without A T3 result. Iv ordered it. My DIL will take Sample for me and Hoping next week i finally know what t3 move is

Ive got two boxes thnx in fruit bowl!

Thankyou for rt3 refresher

Thats reassuring.

So in fact could have too much iodine!? As my t4 always been good level & so now almost at very top im giving it away to t1 & 2 possibly

Lastly do adrenals like t3

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

I don't think you'd have too much iodine unless you were supplementing.

Yes, adrenals do like T3.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

I mean some may say Keep going with levo

As it can be over range? But what does t3 look like in that scenario pls?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Not a good idea to keep going with the levo unless you have to. And FT4 too high will reduce your conversion to T3 because most of it will be converting to rT3, so you'd just have to keep increasing it. But, it's not possible to say much more without seeing the FT3 result.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thnku. Back soon

Getting close! Will check out suppliers 🤞🤞

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Ive had dilemma the lab deemed my t3 test unecessary due to tsh coming in range

Any thoughts appreciated

I feel they are playing God as my endo requested it......

Is it in stone sonewhere that t3 should be in top third when hypo for wellness? Its caused so much hoo ha between secretaries, lab, doc and self

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Nothing is in stone where thyroid is concerned. The FT3 should be where it best suits you, and if that's over-range or mid-range, so be it. Doctors don't understand that. They're obsessed with numbers, which is the wrong way to go about it.

I think it's scandalous that the lab has the power to over-rule the doctor. It wouldn't happen here in France! But, that's the NHS for you. I just don't understand why doctors put up with it.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Absolutey!👍🏼 Lab said ‘but they are scientific clinicians or similar

Poor lady. I said it wasnt personal but they are just bkack n white. 🤦‍♀️ Can i say that now

All about the numbers!!

So how is it i e read about top third here?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

I think what you've read about the top third on here was only part of what was said. Usually people say FT3 should be in the top third of the range, or wherever makes you feel well - or words to that effect. We're all different, with different needs. But, most people do need their FT3 in the top third, although not everyone. Some, like me, even need it higher, like over-range. Ranges are just rough guides. They're not set in stone, either.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

👍🏼

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Well im rather confused though

So feeling as i do with tsh at 1.1 should i up levo teeny bit or start adding in t3 now? This is the question

I didnt get the adrenal test. I wish now i had as maybe this hinges on them

Any thoughts please

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Well, I wouldn't add in T3 without knowing your FT3 level. Symptoms and blood results should be considered in tandem.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thankyou

Can i tag onto this post the resukts pls?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

You'd probably be better off starting a new post, so that more people will see it.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Secretaries are putting out another Request for me now.

.....All about the cost at end of day

T3 is another separate test.....about time everyone on same sheet some would say

Many other reasons why not converting well.....moreso now re detoxing. Gut of course, pathways, Adrenals,

But will be lovely for brain fog veil to be lifted until worked on other aspects for longer

Numbers help see where you are up to when recovering ne’st pas 😊

Thnkyou

🌈

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

As I said, blood tests are a guide. But how you feel is the most important.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Yes. 😂 been so long how will i know

I hope jpint pain eases

I probably put too much emphasis on it? Sometimes its horrid pain under Blades and in there then its just gone completely

Id love to know cause and how one day brain wont function at all

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Joint pain is very often down to low vit D.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

May i ask howyours is

And how much D needed daily?

I could improve a bit on D

Hatd to imagine its for life

Or when t3 higher may you need less?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

I've never managed to get a doctor to test my vit d, they always say it's not necessary! But, then, I've never had joint pain. I used to have muscle pain, but that went with zinc.

If your vit D is low - which it probably is - then you probably would have to take if for life. What's so wrong with that? It's better than the alternative.

Not certain that you would need less with higher T3. What you need to work on, if you have low nutrients, is low stomach acid.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Absolutely. I do, I'm next detoxing but aware you need to be in a good state to detox so to speak, have amazing insights on it from a member and very much in mind, alsomto get rid of candida and the dreaded parasites we all will have to some degree, a,good,old cleanmout every 60 yrs or so isnt OTT Lol

My D is 173. Range 50 - 250 So can add more of it then

Folate was over range, presume this ok. Just to cut back. But I've taken methyl folate. Thinking you miss the fibre but hope,it's as good as the greens! Some days were too lazy so took the supps

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

I'm not a fan of the idea of detoxing. The body keeps itself 'clean'. It depends how you do it, of course, but it could possibly do more harm than good.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Understand this view of detox, the liver after all is a body cleanser. I try the intermittent fasting say for 16 hrs at least over night, to give it a break, there is evidence it appreciates this - any fasting and drinking clear fluids gives the body a rest also some herbs are meant to support , Swedish bitters are recommended too

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Also may I ask

If the RT3 goes to t1 and t2 what then happens to these? (Sorry)

I know little is said about these I feel

'Then the iodine is recycled'

, does this mean the old iodine is forever in your system. If you are getting more from levo

Sorry bit obscure question

How does body dispose of it if old or,unneeded ?

[helvella in reply to Cup-cake7]

T2 becomes T1.

"Old" iodine can, to some extent, be excreted. Hence, use of urinary iodine as an indicator of iodine levels.

If you have a lot of iodine, you will get rid of more than if you only have a little iodine.

The body can and does excrete thyroid hormones in various forms. For example, T4-sulphate.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to helvella]

Clever aye. I don't know what that is. Best have a google

Thankyou both.

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

Rod, one thing I'm not clear on, I know the iodine is recycled, but what about the tyrosine? What happens to that?

[helvella in reply to greygoose]

I'll start with "I don't know!"

But... Tyrosine is iodinated to form monoiodotyrosine (MIT) and diiodotyrosine (DIT).

Two DITs or one DIT and one MIT then join together forming T4 or T3 respectively. That means, T4 and T3 are constructed from two tyrosine molecules.

Deiodination them progressively converts T4 to T3, T2, T1, possibly T0. But the core thyronine seems to remain intact.

Tyrosine and thyronine are, I think, used in other pathways, so it all gets much more complicated.

If you can follow any of it, there is more information here:

apps.pathwaycommons.org/pat...

Pretty sure I can't.

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

If you can't, I'm pretty sure I can't! And certainly not tonight. I'll have a look tomorrow, if I feel brave.

Thank you for that explanation, it explains why I didn't know.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Hi GG.

I hope,you don't mind, please could you comment

I'm just bobbing in finally with the t3 result to review with the above levels ........., I had to go to another hospital to,get the t3 test done, beg the secretaries to send it to my doc, as they wouldn't , couldn't give it to me and so a kind doc has sent it to me by text today

And I think it's ok 🤷‍♀️ Finally finally I think I've got ok blood numbers. And supplement numbers. But does not reflect how I feel most days

😌

The t3 is

5.5. Range 3.7 to 6

I thought I would feel fab and I don't as still have brain fog days, extreme tiredness

Any thoughts please?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

If you don't feel fab then you haven't got ok numbers. Because it's not so much about the numbers as how you feel. The numbers are just a rough guide.

So, your FT4 is 90% through the range and your FT3 is 78.26%. Conversion not brilliant but I've seen worse. But, your FT4 is probably too high now, and converting to more rT3 than T3. So, a reduction in levo and the addition of a little T3 might get you to where you want to be. Worth a try.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thankyou gg. Be got some. Endo is next week, interesting one as to what he will say but he's the best around here (finally )

He may well test adrenals

Perhaps they are causing symptoms as on DR P sheet the two conditions had lap over symptoms

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Sorry that was 'seeing endo next week'

Why do you say t4 may be too high ? Thing is my t4 was always a good level, just a bit less that this

So seems odd to me that I needed to take 125 levo to budge it up a little bit!

From experience here, does 125 levo often take people from low t4 to a good level'.? Seems odd to me as a lot of levo to budge me up tiny bit

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Why do you say t4 may be too high ?

Because, when it gets to a certain point - and that point is different for everyone - more T4 starts getting converted to rT3 than T3. So, instead of going up in proportion to your FT4 level, your FT3 level tends to drop because your conversion is worse.

From experience here, does 125 levo often take people from low t4 to a good level'.?

That is a personal thing, and far from linear. You cannot predict it.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thankyou. But Dont understand why higher levo 125 took t3 upwards But as a negative then🤦‍♀️ If i need to maybe lower it

As t3 was in low range b4

So if reduce levo i suppose im back where i was with low t3 conversion

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

But Dont understand why higher levo 125 took t3 upwards But as a negative then

Sorry, I don't know what you mean. What is negative?

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

I understand what you wrote

But that woukd mean iv missed a sweet spot so to speak?

I checked t3/t4 at each levo imcrease and t3 didnt budge until now on 125

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

No, you haven't missed your sweet-spot. It's the FT3 sweet-spot that is important, and you're obviously not there yet.

It's just that if your FT4 level is too high, your conversion can get worse instead of better, because more T4 is converted to rT3 and less to T3. If your FT3 has risen, then you haven't reached that rT3 point yet. But, you don't really want it to go any higher if you have the oppertunity to take some T3 instead.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Ah. T h a n k u

So if refuce levo shoukd i try 75 and ? Of t3

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

No, don't go down that far. 25 mcg reduction will do.

I presume you have 25 mcg T3 pills? Cut them in quarters and just add one quarter, and see how it goes.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Although iv read some say they go over top range t4 to feel well?

I suppose you need rt3 test to know this?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

As I said, we're all different. Depends on their level of conversion, etc.

Well, you can't know if you have high rT3 without a test, but it doesn't benefit you much to know. The only thing you could do about it would be to reduce levo and add T3. You don't need a test to tell you that.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thankyou. Great advice

Well i suppose if you tested rt3 and it was low woukd you continue to up levo o er range?

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

Well, I suppose so. But, it's a very expensive way of finding out if you can increase your dose. Best to just look at the FT4 level.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

👍🏼

Suppose to be exact with this it is needed as well to know properly

...t3 is expensive as well

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

No. It is absolutely not needed. It doesn't give you any information that you can't get elsewhere.

If you have a blood rT3 test, and it comes back high, what are you going to do about it?

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Take t3😊🤷‍♀️

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

OK, but what if your high rT3 was caused by Acute illness and injury

* Chronic disease

* Increased cortisol (stress)

* Low cortisol (adrenal fatigue)

* Low iron

* Lyme disease

, etc. etc. etc. ?

Taking T3 won't help with any of those. T3 is not a treatment or cure for high rT3. Taking T3 on helps rT3 decrease if you have poor conversion and your FT4 is too high. And, you can tell if that's a likely cause by looking at your FT4 and FT3 results. You do not need the expense of an rT3 test.

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks

Just to explain that When i said id take t3 its because i have been bad convertor and not wanting to tempt making rt3 by increasing levo - as we covered previously

.....no I didnt know those things also cause rt3, interesting. Thnx

[greygoose in reply to Cup-cake7]

You're welcome.

Yes, I realise what you were saying, but I was just explaining the futility of testing rT3 - because there could always be more than one cause at the same time.

[greygoose]

Sorry, but I'm not sure what B12 and ferritin have to do with the subject in hand.

[greygoose]

Oh, I see! lol This conversation has gone off on such a tangent, I'd forgotten what it was originally about!

[Cup-cake7 in reply to greygoose]

Moi🙂

[Cup-cake7]

....wasn't GP. Was Endocrenist It's out of order, I need to write somewhere