Hashimotos ??

[Chippy10]

I have a 2,5cm nodule. Had an ultrasound scan at a London hospital with an excellent radiologist who specialises in Laser ablation of thyroid nodules.He said I have Hashimotos so was denied that treatment.My local hospital have scanned also with biopsies but say no hashimotos was seen.My TSH is totally suppressed T3 and T4 are in range also negative antibodies which I had done privately.They want to give me RAI. ?? Symptoms are fatigue very depressed which is not me also tender was in neck. My initial diagnosis was subclinical hyperthyroidism. Not sure if I should have the treatment or not.I am 71.Thankyou for any input

[greygoose]

I wouldn't if I were you! RAI is not a treatment for Hashi's.

Which antibodies did you have tested? And what were the results/ranges? Always best to give actual numbers rather than just saying 'FT4/3 in-range', which is meaningless. So, if you post your results and ranges on here, we'll be better able to help you.

[Chippy10 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks for your reply. I for the life of me can't find my blood results ,I am a retired phlebotomist and always had copies.However I have the results from when I had the antibodies done privately. They are TSH 0.01 this is the problem Range 0.27-4.2 Free T4 15.7 R ange 12.22 . Free T3 5.9 Range 3.1-6.8. Throglobulin Antibodies 10 Range 0-115 Anti Tpo antibodies 9. Range 0-34 These were done in February. I refused RAI and was going to opt for surgery but have found out that the burning and pain I have had for the past 8 years might have been due to the sinus surgery I had they now think it is restless leg syndrome.I have to see Consultant tomorrow to tell him I don't want the surgery because I know it will make this worse and I couldn't bear it Never had depression in my life but I do now.Sorry for the rant but worried about this.Snow dragon answered me also so I hope she can see this Oh and I am not on medication.Thanks

[greygoose in reply to Chippy10]

They are TSH 0.01 this is the problem Range 0.27-4.2 Free T4 15.7 R ange 12.22 . Free T3 5.9 Range 3.1-6.8.

Well, the low TSH doesn't appear to be a problem for you. It's just a problem for your doctors! What I mean is, doctors always freak out when they see a low TSH, and diagnose 'sub-clinical' hyper. Which is a nonsense, because your FT4 is not even mid-range! And what I mean by it not being a problem for you - at the moment, at any rate - is that your FT3 is a decent level.

So, what, exactly is the problem? The nodule. Has it been biopsied? Just because it's large doesn't mean it's toxic or cancerous. Unless it obstructs your breathing, I can't see why it's a problem.

You could very well have restless leg syndrome - lots of people do - but what has RLS got to do with sinus surgery? RLS can be due to low thyroid, but can also be due to nutritional deficiencies. Have you had your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested? Have you tried taking magnesium? No point in testing magnesium, the tests won't give you a true result.

an excellent radiologist who specialises in Laser ablation of thyroid nodules.He said I have Hashimotos so was denied that treatment.

This has been bothering me since I first read it. Firstly, on what grounds did he say you have Hashi's? Surely there must have been some sort of written report, so what did it say? It's true that you can have Hashi's without ever having raised antibodies - although one negative antibody test cannot completely rule out Hashi's anyway, because antibodies fluctuate. But, he must have had some grounds for saying you had Hashi's.

Secondly, why does having Hashi's rule out laser ablation? I don't know anything about laser ablation, didn't even know it existed, so I'm just asking this question out of curiosity.

[greygoose in reply to greygoose]

SlowDragon ?

[Chippy10 in reply to greygoose]

I did have vitamins tested some time ago and they were low but now ok. I also had two biopsies in 2014 ,they always wanted me to have RAI because of the associated heart and bone problems that go with low TSH in fact the consultant I see tomorrow said it is only because of the TSH I will operate .The Dr in London did ultrasound and because I have no healthy tissue left, the left side is all nodule , the only way they can do laser ablation if it's a "healthy " thyroid with a solitary nodule. He said it too tricky in my case As far as the sinus surgery it's a known fact that anethesia can cause problems in an old brain especially when you never took HRT and had the protection of oestrogen. I feel ok apart from feeling exhausted all the time it has affected my life slot Don't like I am a very active person normally.Thankyou for your reply.

[greygoose in reply to Chippy10]

they always wanted me to have RAI because of the associated heart and bone problems that go with low TSH

But, heart and bone problem do not go with low TSH. That is a myth. The TSH has nothing to do with hearts and bones. So, whatever you do, don't have a TT for that reason. It probably won't raise your TSH, anyway, not if you have a pituitary problem. I don't think these doctors know anything about thyroid!

As far as the sinus surgery it's a known fact that anethesia can cause problems in an old brain especially when you never took HRT and had the protection of oestrogen.

How old is your brain? Surely can't be that old. And, I've never heard that oestrogen protects the brain, anyway. I've never taken HRT, either. Can't remember when I last had surgery, but I must have been in my sixties. This all sounds very queer to me. Can't you ask for a 'second' opinion?

What the anesthesia does affect is B12 levels, which can cause neurological symptoms. So, what level do you call 'OK'? Just in-range, or over 550? Over 70 for the active B12 test.

Or, if you decide you want to have the surgery, make sure that your doctor knows how to treat hypothyroidism before you agree. How is he going to treat you after the op? Is he going to dose by the TSH only, or will he test the FT4 and FT3? Will he insist on T4 monotherapy or will he give you T3? Don't just go into it blindly. And don't allow your doctors to, either. You need a plan. In writing.

[Chippy10 in reply to greygoose]

No I'm not going into this blindly,I do lots of research and I know my TSH will not change ,it's a central problem.Oestrogen and Dopamine work together in the Hypothalamus and I know my stores of oestrogen are depleted. So I am going tomorrow to tell him I do not want the surgery , unless under more tests I have cancer then it's something to think about. When i refused RAI with my local endocrinologist and went to London for that second opinion he didn't want to see me anymore and was passed to another member of the team .They don't like it if you question them too much which I do. Tomorrow I shall probably be excommunicated from the NHS haha.

[greygoose in reply to Chippy10]

Well, good for you! Hope you find a solution.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Presumably you are NOT on any Levothyroxine or other thyroid hormone replacement?

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common with Hashimoto's

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

20% of Hashimoto's patients never have raised antibodies

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or all vitamins

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random

Link about thyroid blood tests

thyroiduk.org/tuk/testing/t...

Link about antibodies and Hashimoto's

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

List of hypothyroid symptoms

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

[SlowDragon Administrator]

20% of Hashimoto's patients never have raised antibodies .....so looks like you are one of these

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Can you add your actual results and ranges for

Vitamin D

Folate

Ferritin

B12

Exactly what vitamin supplements do you currently take?

As greygoose says .....low magnesium often seems to be behind restless legs

Zero point testing....on standard UK tests .....just trying Magnesium supplement

Calm vitality magnesium powder is cheap and easy to use. Too much can cause diarrhoea...so best to start slowly!

Or Re-Mag from Botanical Health is good, but expensive. Doesn't affect gut

Are you on strictly gluten free diet?

Hashimoto's frequently affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone

Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten. Dairy is second most common.

According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps, sometimes significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)

Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms

While still eating high gluten diet ask GP for coeliac blood test first or buy test online for under £20, just to rule it out first

Assuming test is negative you can immediately go on strictly gluten free diet




(If test is positive you will need to remain on high gluten diet until endoscopy, maximum 6 weeks wait officially)




Trying gluten free diet for 3-6 months. If no noticeable improvement then reintroduce gluten and see if symptoms get worse

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

amymyersmd.com/2018/04/3-re...

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

scdlifestyle.com/2014/08/th...

drknews.com/changing-your-d...

restartmed.com/hashimotos-g...

[Chippy10 in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi thanks for reply , I had coeliac and gluten tests done ,they were negative , I am on a gluten free diet . As for vitamin levels can't find at the moment , that was way back.They are very good and check everything .On my way to see consultant