Solved: The Riddle of Heart Attacks - page 54

[greygoose]

HighlandMo

kiefer

Londinium

Finally managed to get it scanned!

Page 55 in the next post.

[greygoose]

You're welcome.

[Smelly12 in reply to greygoose]

Very good my friend was very ill when stopped thyroid mess and later died of heart attack may or may not of been but this good to now thankyou you may not feel you can take credite but you can take credite for informing us all❣️❤️

[greygoose in reply to Smelly12]

Why did your friend stop thyroid meds? That's really not recommended.

[Smelly12 in reply to greygoose]

I dnt no why Think she felt good at first very sad.

[greygoose in reply to Smelly12]

Very sad, indeed.

[Milagroscrs615]

Thank you greygoose!

[greygoose in reply to Milagroscrs615]

You're welcome.

[Teresamarie]

Nice job on putting research into practice for all of us on this site! Short answer is Don’t stop taking you meds! 😊

[Coachgeorge]

You are the best!

[greygoose in reply to Coachgeorge]

Thank you.

[MissGrace]

And no mention of adjusting dose by TSH - instead through basal temperature. 🤸🏿‍♀️🥛

[greygoose in reply to MissGrace]

I don't think the TSH test had been invented in his time.

[MissGrace]

Better for a lot of people if it never had been. 🤸🏿‍♀️🥛

[greygoose in reply to MissGrace]

Totally agree!

[Bookworm1961]

thank you Greygoose. this is 1 reason for us all to take our Meds. I look at at the tablets as being nourishment for the body just like food and I don't mind taking them😊 if we stopped eating we would starve if we donnt take our Meds our bodies suffer as well. I have been able to relay lots of useful information to other friends with thyroid problems that I have learnt from this forum.

[greygoose in reply to Bookworm1961]

You're welcome. That's a good way to look at it.

[HighlandMo]

Thank you. Love the poppy photo!

[greygoose in reply to HighlandMo]

Thank you. But I can't take any credit for it, I didn't take it. I love poppies, though, that gorgeous red!

[RockyPath]

Thank you, greygoose, for the heroic effort of scuffling with the cranky technology so that we can read this. I imagine John C. Lowe must have been quite familiar with the work of Barnes. I must go back and look at his footnotes in his cardiovascular chapter.

It's appalling to consider how modern physicians are oblivious to the problems they are causing by ignoring or under-treating hypothyroidism. The last endocrinologist I saw advised me to completely cut off levothyroxine for a month. "Thanks, Doc."

[greygoose in reply to RockyPath]

Incredible. They have no idea. But that is all down to Big Pharma, who don't want doctors to know how to treat thyroid. They want to keep selling hypos drugs to treat symptoms. They'd lose a lot of money if hypos got better!

[JaneChapple]

RockyPath

Ridiculous. That happened to my son because our local endo said levo wasnt working forvhim and advised GP to take him off it even though TSH normal range. Blamed it on him being special needs and not having a job! We had to get second opinion as I knew he had Hashis like me! Hes back on them now.

Wish Id thought about the PIL leaflet which states you should not come off the meds. They didnt even titrate the dose down. The wretched endo is even clinical lead and now trying to take T3 patients down from 20mcg of T3 to 10mcg T3. She should be sacked, like most them, I really do despair sometimes!

JaneCx

[JaneChapple]

Here is a link to the book

google.com/url?

sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=jeffreydachmd.com/wp-conten...

JaneCx

[dinglebell in reply to JaneChapple]

Jane that link doesn’t seem to be working?

[greygoose in reply to dinglebell]

Try this one:

legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid...

[RockyPath in reply to greygoose]

I'm glad you used the UCSF link, greygoose, for it lends more credence to the publication, to find it in the health sciences library of one of the world's major centers for biological and medical research.

I wonder if someday UCSF will have a section devoted to understanding the thyroid. Pity that everyone focuses on the heart, liver and kidneys, to the exclusion of the organ that actually can keep them healthy.

[greygoose in reply to RockyPath]

You are so right, Rocky. But, I think Dr Broda Barnes takes his own credence with him wherever he is - he was a great man.

[JaneChapple in reply to dinglebell]

HivDinglebell

It shoulld work if you copy and padte the link. I just tried it.

google.com/url?sa=t&source=...

Janex

[JaneChapple in reply to dinglebell]

Hi dinglebell

It should work if you copy and paste. Its pdf file called The Riddle of Heart Attacks, Jeffery Dach. Ot seems if you click the edit button here it will bring up the URL?!

google.com/url?sa=t&source=...

JaneCx

[dinglebell in reply to JaneChapple]

Thank you Jane.

[dinglebell]

Thank you Greygoose.

[greygoose in reply to dinglebell]

You're welcome.

[hemp66]

Hi greygoose I take my levo . with my other meds in the morning just before breakfast would I be better taken them at night with my Apixaban and vitamin D TIA

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Not quite sure what you're saying, here. Are you saying that you take levo and other medication at the same time?

[hemp66 in reply to greygoose]

Yes

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Then it's doubtful you're absorbing very much.

Thyroid hormones should be taken:

* 1 hour before or two hours after food and drinks, apart from water.

* 2 hours away from most medication/supplements.

* 4 hours away from iron, calcium, vit d, magnesium and oestrogen.

[hemp66]

Yes I am taking levo. With my other meds . beginning to think I should be taken them on there own ,is ok to take my levo last thing at night as I then don't eat or drink till morning

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

It's a good idea to take it at night, if you want to take other medication/supplements in the morning.

[hemp66]

Thank you .if I forward to you a list of my meds tomorrow will you advise me the way to take them please

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Certainly. Just post them on here and I'll help if I can.

[hemp66 in reply to greygoose]

Amlodipine

Apixaban twice a day

Bisoprolol

Citalopram

Landoprazole

Levothroxine

Mebervine X3 per day

Ramipril

Bit.D

Appreciate any help you can give me to take my meds properly 🤔

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Amlodipine

So, you have heart problems, is that why you're taking it? Are you sure you're not having heart problems due to being under-medicated? Or is the Amlodipine causing your hypothyroidism? Of course, we don't know if you are under-medicated because I can't find any results for you, and your doctor isn't testing the FT3.

I know you didn't post this list of medication to get a critique of what you're taking, but it really does frighten me when I see such a list, and know that the complaints you're taking them for could all be down to under-medicated hypothyroidism.

The heart needs lots of T3. If you don't have enough in your system, then that is going to cause problems with your heart. And, taking a drug is not going to be a substitute for thyroid hormone.

If you're taking it for high blood pressure, then that, too, could be down to under-medication.

In any case, you should take it at least two hours away from your levo. It may affect the thyroid, but I don't think it has much effect on exogenous hormone.

Apixaban

This is a blood thinner. I wonder does your doctor know that levo can have an effect of blood thinners, making them more potent. How often do you have your medication reviewed? Are you seeing a cardiologist? Or does your GP do the prescribing?

In any case, this should be taken at least two hours away from levo.

To be continued…

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Don't like to make my posts too long, in case of accidents and I lose the lot!

Bisoprolol

So, this is for high blood pressure - your doctor really does believe in over-kill, doesn't he! High blood pressure can be a hypo symptom, so is he really sure you need this Beta Blocker. Bisoprolol, I believe is one of the Beta Blockers that can affect conversion of T4 to T3, so he really should be testing your FT3.

To be taken at least two hours away from levo.

Citalopram

Antidepressant. Depression can really be a symptom of low thyroid. But, doctors get more financial gain from prescribing antidepressants that from prescribing levo! So...

To be taken at least two hours away from levo.

Landoprazole

PPI. Are you taking this to 'protect' your stomach from all the other drugs you're taking? Or are you taking it for acid reflux? Whatever. It will lower your stomach acid and make absorbing nutrients and levo more difficult. So, needs to be taken well away from levo - as far as you can.

Have you had your nutrients tested: vit D, vit B12, folate, ferritin? For a health heart nutrients need to be optimal - they also need to be optimal for your body to be able to use thyroid hormone correctly. But, doctors don't know that. They give drugs that lower your nutrient levels and then wonder why you don't get well! Ask your doctor to test them - it's the least he can do!

Mebeverine

So, you also have bowel problems? Probably also due to low thyroid. Nothing special to say about this but take it two hours away from levo, like the others.

TBC...

[hemp66 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks, think first I need to take my levo.last thing at night 2hrs after last good and drink .Then need to have serious talk with my Dr. Which I shall make in next few days Your info was very welcome and eye-opening to me can't thank you enough. Like to send. You my Blood results but don't know how .

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Just post them here - or don't you want other people to see?

[hemp66 in reply to greygoose]

Worked it out eventually ,

[greygoose in reply to hemp66]

Ramipril

Another blood pressure drug? I really think you ought to have a serious word with your doctor. This one can lower the concentration of T4 in your blood, meaning that you need to take more levo. Take it as far away from levo as possible.

Vit D

This should be taken four hours away from levo. Are you also taking its cofactors: vit K2-MK7 and magnesium?

Now, vit K2 is a difficult one, because no-one can seem to agree on whether it affects blood clotting or not. We know you shouldn't take K1 when taking blood thinners, but some people say you shouldn't take K2 either, and others say it has no effect on blood clotting. So, I don't know what to suggest, there.

Magnesium is a must. Taking vit D will lower your magnesium, which is probably already very low. And, magnesium will be very good for your heart, too. Best to get magnesium taurate for the heart - you'll find it on Amazon. And, take it with your vit D, at least four hours away from levo.

Now, I have been in your situation, told I had heart problems, prescribed all these terrible drugs, and living my life around my drug timetable. When, all it really needed was an alteration to my thyroid hormone dosing. But, the drugs made me too drugged-up to think properly and sort it all out! Which should be your doctors job, anyway. But they just don't understand any of this. So, I think you need to pin your doctor down and make him go over all this with a fine-tooth comb, and sort out your schedule: do you really need all this? Are you optimally medicated for your thyroid? Ask questions, lots of questions: why do I need this? Why do I need that? Do I really need the other? Is all this really necessary? You need to take your place in the driver's seat and take command of your health.

And, first step is: get copies of your blood test results and post them here with the ranges. Insist your doctor at least try to get your FT3 tested - and if not, get private testing yourself. You need to know your exactly hormone and vitamin status. Then, you'll be in a position to take charge. Remember: knowledge is power.

[RockyPath in reply to greygoose]

greygoose, if you ever feel like a holiday in Florida, perhaps you could come and teach something useful to the ignorant lot of endocrinologists, cardiologists, rheumatologists, other specialists, and general practitioners.

Your reply suggests that you have far more knowledge than my young primary care physician. She's the one who, ignoring all of the physical symptoms, read my TSH of 8.4 and looked up into my face (she's short and I'm tall) and said she would not consider treating me until my TSH went over 11, because that's the magic number she was taught.

[greygoose in reply to RockyPath]

Sounds very tempting, but I don't think I'd like the weather in Florida! Too hot! lol My last holiday abroad was in Holland, much more to my liking temperature-wise.

Ask your primary care physician if she's ever heard of logic or tried thinking for herself. That 'magic number' gets higher and higher all the time! I thought it was only in the UK that they wouldn't treat under 10. Now it's 11??? The whole world is going to the dogs!

[RockyPath in reply to greygoose]

You silly goose, greygoose! People in the UK visit Florida in the winter. My elderly friends in Witney came for two weeks, to get away from the rain and cold of Oxfordshire in January. The weather was lovely.

Admittedly, there are only a few weeks in winter when the weather is lovely. The rest of the time it's beastly hot. I tell people that we have two seasons: summer and Hell, and summer runs from December through April. The rest is Hell.

At least we've dodged the super hurricanes so far.

[greygoose in reply to RockyPath]

We-ell... Still not gonna happen! lol My travelling days are over, so until they invent transportation, I'm staying right where I am.

The Florida endos wouldn't listen to me, anyway, I'm just an ignorant patient, not an over-rated specialist.

[JaneChapple in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose

Think I read somewhere that they are raising the TSH level till 20! I gather that when you reach 65 they will consider removing levothyroxine as the rise in TSH is age-related - good job I self medicate ( with T3 now). Have to get private script in Germany though. As Im 65 in January I dont have long apparenly. Im not allowing them to do this to me do will continue buying my own meds for as long as possible! Cant be bothered to fight them on this either!

JaneCx

[greygoose in reply to JaneChapple]

There was a proposition to raise the diagnostic TSH level to 20, but a lot of specialists objected. So, I don't know how far that got.

They cannot just stop your levo when you reach 65, although they might want to reduce it. That's just a misunderstanding of age-related TSH and how it applies to hypos. As usual, doctors have got the research upside-down and inside-out!

[JaneChapple in reply to greygoose]

A slightly different scenario greygoose. My son is now 25 and the clinical lead in Exeter stopped his medication even though bloods were normal saying it want working and down to him not having a job and being special needs. Wanted to contact his social worker so i sacked both of them! Had a second opinion and he was diagnosed with Hashimotos in 10 minutes. Endo couldnt believe he had been taken off meds and wrote to GP explaining it all! The endo has thankfully increased his dose even though the GP would say it was in range!

Its all a complete and utter nonsence. They all need to go back to med school but would probably be given ten minutes with the same teaching from 30 years ago. It makes you want to dispair!

JaneCx

[greygoose in reply to JaneChapple]

I do despair, I really do. Such incredible ignorance!

[hemp66]

Thanks

[kissemiss]

Thank you Greygoose for this really interesting information.

[greygoose in reply to kissemiss]

You're welcome.