Does anyone supplement their NDT with separate T3 ?
If so...would you kindly share with me your experience...
Why you do it...
How you went about it....
The results,,,
Did it make you better?
NDT PLUS T3: Does anyone supplement their NDT... - Thyroid UK
NDT PLUS T3
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Jollypolly
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Typically, when T3 is substituted for levothyroxine, 50 mcg of LT4 is replaced with 12.5 mcg of LT3. I found this in numerous publications of clinical trials, so apparently they all go by the rule of thumb that T3 is four times as potent as T4. NDT already includes some T3, so you would have to consider it in the replacement calculation. Since a grain of NDT contains 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3, you could roughly estimate a replacement of that grain tablet with 20 mcg of LT3.
When I recognized the conversion problem with T4, I had been feeling increasingly unwell as the endocrinologist increased the dose in an attempt to make my FT4 and FT3 move out of the mid range. Fatigue, insomnia, brain fog, anemia, all of the physical symptoms of hypothyroidism increased with more levothyroxine. Once I pared it back and added more T3 I felt rejuvenated.
I've been on only T3 since October, fiddling with the dose while my body adjusts and tells me what it needs. Currently it's saying that it's most content with the tablets of T3 spaced at six-hour intervals. Naturally, the endocrinologist hadn't the time to get involved with all of this, so he has provided me a sufficient hormone supply for trials of various doses, and see him every four months. I have had to learn on my own that my tolerance for T3 has been a moving target, and stopping everything for a few days helps to sort overmedication from under-medication. Frequently I felt as though I was trying to thread a needle with my eyes closed.
Have you ever watched someone pour petrol on an open flame? Often the pourer ends up in a burn unit or dead. I suspect this is what my endocrinologist was imagining when he let me loose with a supply of T3. My first experiments were alarming and "invigorating" but I'm now somewhat expert in self-induced transient thyroidtoxicosis.
The half-life of T3 is individual to your genetics, but you'll find it somewhere in the span between 12 and 24 hours. If you don't want to go through everything I've done, I would suggest you start with a supply of 5 mcg tablets and cut them in half. It's a bother, but making small changes over short time intervals provides more insight.
It will be an adventure. Be careful and good luck.
Ahhhhh.... Someone else prepared to experiment on themselves. I figure GPs and blood tests can get you in the ball park but to feel good you have to experiment. After all our thyroid requirements change daily (Summer, winter, exercise, no exercise days) hence need to put the right amount of T3, NDT in each day. Anyone taking T3, NDT needs to understand their bodies and the only way to learn is to make mistakes. Cold feet need more, tingles need less, slow heart rate need more, low temp need more, high BP need more, racing heart need less. It's not that hard and it's better than waiting 3 months for a blood test.
James
Hi again
Thanks so much for this detailed reply..I really appreciate .
I WAS going to ask you who your endo is...and I’ve seen you are in the USA..so that’s another door closed...
But then I saw on your profile that you did all the spade work yourself anyway...l
You’ve opened things up for me,,and it’s given me food for thought.
In the equation for me I’m also juggling Adrenal Fatigue ..and cortex to help that...and estrogen dominance..and Progesterone to help that...
Both those are not easy to get right.,and they both affect and are in turn affected by the thyroid issues,,,,,it’s a bit like being on the Circle Line of the Underground with its branch lines off along the route !
I’m on 3/4 grain.,.was on 2,25 grains..NDT...lowered since using Progesterone..but now can’t raise it at all without feeling dreadful.
I acquired T3 tabs while in Turkey recently...and wonders if I could use them..,as am very suspicious that I have some intolerance of the t4...
I’ve really no idea....
But I’ll think on...and you’ve certainly helped...many thanks indeed.
If you have T3 tablets that you can use in 5 or 10 mcg increments (by careful cutting?), you could certainly replace that 3/4 grain with 15 mcg T3 for four or five days and see how you feel. Spacing the T3 across the day will be less surprising for your body.
Hello again Rocky !
Looking back over this reply to my post...
I ve moved on somewhat .....
Now taking only 3/4 grain...WAS always first thing at 5 am...
But moved away from this to 1/4 at 5 am and 1/2 at bedtime....
I do think it works better...
And I take 6 mcgs of t3 at about four pm..
But still experimenting ..very slowly....
An adventure is a very nice way of putting it 🌝
It’s no good complaining is it..
Is your endo any good, by the way ? Sounds like it...
Pm me with which part of the country etc if you think he’s worth pursuing.
And I’m thinking of obtaining t3 on the nhs...
Can’t get it from GP
Even though he gives me NDT !
Thanks again for your fulsome reply
I'm constantly adjusting my dose. With NDT I was following the old fashioned method of continuing to increase until I felt well. However for me this meant taking my freet3 over range.
A year or so ago I started getting a few tiny indicators I might be overmedicated. But nothing conclusive, and I was still very ill, struggling with basic self care, etc. As I've got some thyroid hormone resistance, and the standard treatment is a high dose of T3, I decided to swap in some T3. I've been doing that every 6 weeks/2 months or so. I usually change by half a grain/10mcg T3 at a time.
By doing this I've started feeling a very clear improvement at every dose like I did originally with NDT.
I think these things are purely trial and error. All you can do is see what works for you. The only caveat I would add is to go super slowly, especially once you're breaking any conventional rules. I change in half grains because I'm on a very high dose, and it took me two years to get there even working in half grains, if you're on a more standard dose go in quarter grains or even smaller. And make sure you give each dose and format of hormone a nice long time. For example if you make a start on NDT, stick with it for 6 months or so trying to get it right before adding any T3.
Hello..
Thanks so much for your reply, as it’s incredibly helpful to me.
I’ve had three or four extremely interesting replies, and put all together they are most interesting and broadening my thought.
I’m going to print your reply off and highlight,.
And take it all on board.
I may well like to write to you again...
One tends to forget things you intend to remember ,
So I now have a new file for the most helpful posts or messages,,.
So Thanks !
Perhaps speak soon..
You're very welcome, thanks for letting me know it was helpful!
I actually forgot your reply to me as I was overwhelmed with other long messages...God forbid !
Yours has been supremely helpful...and if I can I may message you again later....
Thanks again!
Hi Again,,..
I’m just wondering something,,.
Just today started on adding in t3 to NDT....
5.30 am taking the two together...th NDT 3/4 grain..as I haven’t been able to raise it over ages....plus 6 mcg t3....
Do you think all the same things apply to t3 as NDT...eg...does it take similar time to adjust in the body ? If I try to raise the NDT I get fast heart etc..yet I definitely need a load more...that’s why I began to think...conversion problem ..hormone resistant..t4 resistant perhaps....I do have the faulty D102 gene,,,
So do you think t3 is easier on the body ? I suddenly don’t know I’ve taken it..
SO TEMPTING RO ADD IN ANOTHER 6 mcg this afternoon! Just wan to shout at it to get it to do something !!!
What do you think ?
What I’m trying to say is...does it behave in similar way to NDT..and so you therefore have to manage in the same slow, ponderous manner ?
Private message me back if you like...and THANKYOU !
Overall, I'd say yes. T3 is the most quick acting thing, and I think even NDT is slower. T4 is much slower of course. Its probably the most harsh in terms of rushing into the body without there being any way the body can stop it. We only think of it as gentle because most people who take it desperately need it and are helped by it.
Also, I think you're feelings are very understandable, wanting to get things moving quickly! unfortunately the sensible answer is always to go slowly and wait.
I'd say I've responded quite quickly to T3 over the years, but by quickly I mean within a week or so. I don't think you can ever know if you've felt anything until at least at the end of the day, because it's in the evening you start thinking: "Oh, I cleaned that such and such out and afterwards I still felt well enough to do a few more chores, usually I'd lie down after doing that", or whatever it might be in your case!
I think when people say they can explicitly feel the hormone doing something in their bodies tend to be people who have been taking the tablets a long time and can tell things like when it starts to wear off, or being more energetic a few hours after taking it. I've never felt anything at all like that when brand new on a dose.
If anything I think the body gets a bit surprised and doesn't know how to use it at first. If that makes any sense! I've felt in the first week or two things are quite different to the feeling once it settles down.
Well many thanks indeed for this..very helpful...
Perhaps I’d better jog along on thei little dose for a week or two...before I double it...if you don’t agree with this shout !
You're very welcome and I'm glad it was helpful 
I think waiting is a good plan, give it some time to bed in. I'm very cautious and tend to wait 6 weeks and do a blood test, but I've also changed the equivalent of 10mcg at a time in the past (only once I was on a v high dose), which is a bit naughty really! Its a nuisance with 25mcg tablets, because 10mcg at a time might be plausible, but once its 12.5 at a time it seems a bit high.
If you're doing 6mcg now, 6mcg in a few weeks and at that point waiting 6 weeks and testing, that's probably a good idea. It might be the kind of thing I should do next time as I used to have 20mcg tablets but recently can only source 25mcg.
The closer you think you might be to getting to your optimal dose, the slower you should go, too. To make sure you don't miss your sweet spot. I think how we feel on a given dose still takes a long time to develop. A few times when I've waited 2 or 3 months things have continued to settle down. Definitely up to 6 weeks I can feel things adjusting. My bp and pulse get v strange at first.
Oh gosh Mel..I’ve not been anywhere near sweet spot ! My tabs are 25... so you reckon 6 for a few weeks ! Aaarrgh !!
And then double ?
Tell you what ..with NDT I know when I can’t take the raise..it shows up sooner or later...two or three days or even three weeks...
Du think one would be aware in the same sort of way ?
Maybe if you’re clear over three weeks you could move on up ?
Ok...I’ll have a go..
I don’t think I told you..bear with if I repeat...
But I’ve booked an appt in late September with Dr JENNY Goodman in London..she’s a functional doctor..on Sarah Myhills recommended list,...
Test it works out pricey,
No, I’m not loaded !
But ...my plan is....
Going to try hard and get fixed with this t3 ...
I have time to have an idea if getting anywhere...
If not ..I’m going to get expert help..and I feel sure it’ll get me somewhere on the right track,.an And then it’ll be back to working that out myself again,,...you have to get in with it ultimately don’t you, but some help now and again wouldn’t go amiss...
So will see how desperate I still feel by August.
Thanks again....
Marion x
Good luck!
Its probably the T3 in the NDT that you're feeling quite quickly. If you're lucky it will work the same with pure T3. I think bodies are complicated and all these things are complicated, so you can't count on it.
Going to Dr Myhill's list is a good idea. I'd like to see a new private doctor but haven't given it enough thought.
Actually..I meant feel in a bad way !
But no matter ....usually get adverse symptoms at least but three weeks and can’t raise..yet again !
Time will tell.
Oh dear! Hopefully you'll get lucky and *not* feel the same, then!
Ha! Here’s hoping 🍷
By the way
You do have a gorgeous banner on your profile .. what fabulous colours !
Tried knitting so many times and end up DEMENTED !
Obviously not to be!
Thank you for the kind words
Its made from this pattern, and easier than it looks! ravelry.com/patterns/librar...
Are you in USA then ?
I love this spread out community !
No, I'm in the UK.
Ok ! It looks very complicated to me anyway,..nice hobby.
I feel best on a combination of both NDT & T3. I need more of the former in winter as it helps me stay warmer & ameliorates long standing skin issues. For the past three summers. I've had a few months on T3 alone, & manage ok as long as it's warm. I like that I can vary the dosage of T3 & add a little more if I'm going to have a longer or more active day, which I wouldn't be able to do with NDT alone.
Oh my word Bad Hare..that’s extremely helpful to me...
I haven’t time just now...but if you don’t mind may we chat some more..
I’ll try and message you later.
Many thanks.
I’m on a combo too. I was doing 100 times better on NDT when switched from levo, but adding T3 in the morning definitely made me feel optimal and my fT3 level got pushed up to the top of the range, which is where it’s recommended to be.
Hi again, did you keep the dose of t4 the same ? And how much t3 ...
I don’t take levo (T4) at all. NDT already has T4 and T3. I take 25 mcg of T3 in the morning on top of NDT. I source both from a Thai supplier.
So how much NDT do you take...I meant to say ! And did you keep it the same when adding in the t3
3 grains.
Yes, I kept the same dose and added T3. My levels are great now and I feel great.
Well that’s amazing ! I mean it...I’ve not met anyone else who’s said that !!!
Are you hashis?
And
Was it difficult getting up to these levels ? Cos I’ve found it so difficult raising the doses without feeling bad hence still on 3/4 grain ! Sad and bad !
I think you have difficulties raising because your cohormones might not be where it should be. Iron, B12, D3, cortisol levels are just some that you may need to look at because it can interfere with the conversion process. High reverse T3 is another possible cause.
Yes, thanks ...I’m aware of the things you mentioned..and the last one is the thing Ive come to suspect..
Trouble is..the dear old NHS will NEVER test for Rt3 , will they...not for the GPS anyway ......
Am just starting on 6 mcg t3 to see if this will help things...
Also. ..funny thing..I’ve been on Adrenavive for over two years..to enable my temps to stabilise so I can raise NDT..bit I’ve had to stop it this week...as..the last few weeks I’d gotten to feel worse and worse..and after process of elimination realised it was the Adrenavive
So I don’t know what’s going on..but my body suddenly hates Adrenavive...I’ve tried others before.
Cortex..that is...and body doesn’t like those either 🙄!
Hi, I see your post right now and I think is very useful to me. I'm on thai-ndt (thiroyd) too and I' m struggle to find the right dose, 3 grain is too little ( mentally it is good, no anxiety but physically not, i feel tired in the evening ) and 3,5 is too much(mentally it's not good but physically is good). So, I need an improvement. How do you take your dose(ndt+t3), all in one or you split? Did you add gradually T3 to you ndt dose? Thank you.
I take 25 mcg of T3 on top of NDT because my lab results showed back then that I could use a little added T3. I just started at 25 mcg and I tolerated it well (probably because I already had some T3 from NDT to start with).
And how it looks your lab results after, your T3 is rising? You feel better? You say you take all hormones in the morning, I don't understand why other people split their doses, what is the benefit?
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