Thyroid Strategies for Congestive Heart Failure Patient

[ASkepticalConsumer]

I am new to this fabulous board. Wow what a resource and so many hardworking people supporting others. Thanks!

I am located in Canada. I am writing on behalf of my 89 year old mother who is in stage 3 CHF.

I am asking for your assistance because we are unable to get any specialists here to address my mom's CHF.

We have a family doctor who is approaching retirement and that is it.

Given thyroid health is vital for heart health, I am frantic that nothing is being done to improve my mom's thyroid other than 0.75 mg of Synthroid.

Q1 - Is it true the body dials down the conversion to free t3 process to protect the heart in CHF? Meaning to keep the weakened heart from being over stimulated, less free t3 is produced by the body. This is what the family doctor said.

Q2 - If this is true, what strategies are available to get more thyroid hormone into my mom's body to support her heart but not over stimulate?

My mother is a Hashi. She has no thyroid, it has shriveled to nothing on ultrasound. She takes 0.75 Synthroid, that is it.

She has every hypothyroid symptom going.

Her blood work:

TSH 2.41 (0.35-5)

Free T4 21 (12-22)

Free T3 3.2 (3.4-5.9) Low

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I would greatly appreciate your analysis and ideas about how to infuse my beloved momma's body with more thyroid to help her heart.

I am going to privately start CQ10 supplement without the doctor knowing because the studies out there indicate the benefits to the heart and CHF patients.

Any ideas outside the box would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

ASkepticalConsumer

[MissGrace]

I can’t really answer your question. If it were the UK doctors here (as it seems with you) lose interest in treating the elderly. The T3 seems low, but I would not dare make a call in such a complex situation. I did want to say, good luck with your mum and in your fight for her health. I lost my mum last year and I frequently had to battle to make sure she was looked after properly. We love our mums. There’s no one quite like them. x

[Hidden]

I am sorry that I cannot help I am just another person without a thyroid. Good luck with your Mum she has a good daughter to care for her.

[SilverAvocado]

Your mother's freeT4 is at near the top of the range, and her freeT3 is below the bottom. So her conversion is definitely very poor right now. This can happen during illness to force the body to rest, but it can also happen for lots of other circumstances including having been hypothyroid for a long time, vitamin deficiencies, or genetics.

Many people on T4 only treatment need their freeT4 over the top of the range to feel well, so even thought your mother's freeT4 looks on the high side, it's not unusual to need it even higher.

In conventional thyroid terms your mother needs some T3 to feel well, because the freeT3 is the best predicter of symptoms, and most people need it high in range, near the top, to feel well. But unfortunately I don't know anything about heart disease and thyroid, so I can't comment on whether that applies or doesn't apply with your mother.

It's very worth looking into and talking to a cardiologist if you possibly can, because we hear quite a lot about cardiology being one of the specialisms that likes to use T3 treatment, and T3 is considered good for the heart. It may be that they would advise your mother to get on the T3.

But unfortunately this is me commenting on just some awareness of the general area, not anything hard and fast, and I may be completely wrong. But definitely worth looking into.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Low vitamin levels often affect conversion of FT4 to FT3

Her FT4 is at top of range but her FT3 is very low

Ask GP to test vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin

Low vitamins are extremely common when hypothyroid

B12 drops with age too

Magnesium is important for heart too

[ASkepticalConsumer]

Hi everyone. Thank you so very much for your advice. Momma D has good vitamin levels for iron, D, B12, all the B's. I make sure she takes quality supplements.

I am going to start magnesium, thanks for the reminder.

The typical heart failure drugs can be very hard - creates excessive sleepiness etc.

Little chance to get a cardiologist etc.

In Canada we have have only 1 system, a public one, with rationed doctors. In my province 1/4 of taxpayers have no doctor period. So getting a specialist is near impossible. There is no private medicine, it is illegal to set up and practice private medicine in Canada.

People like me go to the US for much medical care. Momma is too old to cross the border for care.

I also have my Momma's thyroid, so I will be posting shortly for myself when I get my blood work done.

Hugs to everyone!

[humanbean]

Can I suggest that you do a web search for "Low T3 and the heart". There is loads of info on the subject.

Contrary to what many doctors tell patients low T3 is actually very bad for the heart, and it increases the risk of heart failure.

Once heart failure has occurred though, I wouldn't know whether giving T3 to a patient with CHF is safe or not. (I'm not a doctor.)

[Hillwoman]

Calling Marz who, IIRC, has a big book all about the connections between cardiac and thyroid conditions...

[ASkepticalConsumer]

Greetings everyone. I have followed up on everyone's suggestions.

The family doctor is hostile (as suggested they get tired treating dying patients) so I may have to get a natural doctor to provide some thyroid.

From my research, my mothers generation in particular, suffered from miss managed hypothyroid which I believe is why she is dying of congestive heart failure.

Hugs to you all!