Recently we had a discussion about the content of Armour thyroid (an NDT). I recently picked up my Armour thyroid prescription and was delighted to see that Forest Phama is back in business but alarmed to read the contents, which read: levothyroxine (T4) 38 mcg and liothyronine (T3) 9 mcg. The contents said nothing about T2, T1 and calcitonin the supposed extra ingredients of this NDT. The other concerning thing about this is that those ingredients are in the human ratio and not the pig ratio. I called the manufacturer and asked if they were still using pig thyroid and hadn't reemerged to be producing "Armour" with just two synthetic ingredients. The guy at Forest assured me that they are still using pig thyroid but didn't have an answer as to why the ratios are human and not pig.
Anyway, I just thought I would pass this along. It does look as if they are adding a little more levo to bring the ratio up to human ratio, but their levo was pretty good as I recall. Any other insights into this topic would be greatly appreciated.
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Forest Laboratories was a company in the pharmaceutical industry incorporated in Delaware, with its principal office in New York City. It was known for licensing European pharmaceuticals for sale in the United States. On July 1, 2014, the company was acquired by Actavis (now Allergan).
I would not regard that as Forest being back in business – just the ongoing cycle of acquire and divest of big business.
The hormone content of Armour Thyroid always has been levothyroxine (T4) 38 micrograms and liothyronine (T3) 9 micrograms. (At least, since assays capable of such accurate measuring have been available.)
T2, T1 and calcitonin have never been ingredients. They have just been things that came along with the desiccated thyroid ingredient. The amounts of these three substances, how much can actually be absorbed, and whether any of them have a real effect are questions. Questions that though often asked have never been properly answered.
That ratio, approximately 38:9 or 4.22:1 is the classic pig thyroid T4:T3 ratio (by weight). We see all sorts of discussions about human T4:T3 ratios with claims going as high as 14:1 though more often around 10:1.
Your opinion of Forest and Levothroid might be affected by reading two links:
I don’t think there is any evidence that they are adding any synthetic hormone whatsoever. That diogenes has reported this is sometimes done sounds compelling and I can understand the concerns, as well as the rationale for doing so. But in what you have said, I don’t think there is any evidence at all.
Wow, Forest has been quite naughty haven't they. When I first had my total thyroidectomy (after a few months on T3 only) I was put on Forest Levo. After a couple of years fiddling around with my dose my GP and I got me very well on Forest Levo and I thought that would last forever. Then Forest went dark, my GP retired and between a different brand of Levo and my ignorant Endo I became very ill but started to study the whole subject since it was quite obvious my life depended upon it. I am very glad to hear that wherever it is originating my Armour is coming mainly from pigs.
I take armour and I take 2 of the 1 grain type you mentioned but I hadn't even realised about the other ingredients ? I have literally just posted to ask if im taking the right dose as I'm still very low on FT4 . I shall follow your post with interest
Regarding how to get to the correct dose, I would do the following. First, how do you feel on your existing dose? If you feel fine then there is no need to do anything, the whole object is to feel well. Now, if you are not feeling well on your current dose first bring all of your vitamin and mineral levels up to par, these are Vits D, b12, ferritin, folate, and selenium. If any of those are deficient then it will interfere with the endocrine process, it will drag it down. Now measure your freeT3, freeT4 and TSH (and maybe antibodies while you are at it - but we are just looking at a dose adjustment here) and measure your blood pressure (BP). Your T4 and T3 should be in the upper half of their ranges. So now adjust your dose slightly either way and remeasure - if you are increasing measure your BP again and stop if it increases and revert to your original/previous dose. It is the T3 in NDTs which may send your BP up, however T3 only has a half life of about 8 hours so take it easy and you should be back to normal within that time period so don't panic, just revert to your previous dose the next day.
Anyway, that's what I did. I am on as high a dose (1.5grains) as I can take before my BP goes up so I have to put up with falling asleep at 9:00pm every evening - but at my age I don't mind that.
Wow thankyou im such a novice iv posted my vit levels earlier and folate and ferratin but the D3 went awol at the surgery so I'm not sure about that . I do feel better way better than when I was on 100mcg levo only but im not there yet im still lacking energy my ears constantly ring my weight has gone from 7st 8lb to 11st 3lb in a year and a half and im only 5ft thats actually obese i struggle to walk and get breathless but I try to do as much as possible. I have to be active i have a severely disabled son with life limited illnesses and I can't afford to be ill as I'm his main carer . It's just so hard when you break down infront of the GP and all he offers you is Prozac??? He has no clue and says all my results are fine in range and get a grip . That's why I question where Im going wrong I eat well gluten free and dairy free except the odd cup of tea. I can't afford to pay for a Ft3 test yet but I will as soon as i can I know my Ft4 is very low which is why i question the dose of armour . I was petrified of over medicating . My lack of knowledge scares me lol . I truly am grateful for any advice .
Oh my gosh Jodie, that is too much of a load for anyone to bear. Look, before we could measure all of these hormones to the nearest pmol/dL doctors used to dose patients on how they felt on a particular dose and adjust that dose accordingly. I think in your situation I would check out my blood pressure and as long as it is normal I would increase my dose a little and see if it improves my symptoms, especially the ear ringing, this seems to be very sensitive to the T3 level. Any vitamin deficiency can be fixed by eating the foods which contain that vitamin and it seems that you are already doing that (btw, Brazil nuts will give you selenium - the catalyst for T4 to T3 conversion - no more than 2 per day though). Given your classic hypo symptoms I think you are far from being over medicated, quite the opposite.
Keep reading up on this subject, it is vital to being well. I hardly had a biology lesson in my life (well I did do some invertebrate paleontology, I don't know if that counts!) and biology/medicine was completely foreign to me but I had to slug my way through it once I realized that my Endo was hopeless and my survival depended upon myself - it was very scary. Keep reading Jodie, that's what we all do here, get everything you can from the Internet, keep digging and digging. Keep us posted as to how you get on. Oh, and don't be afraid of firing your doctor and getting another one, I got through about five before I got a reasonably good one, and by reasonably good I mean that he does what I tell him re blood tests.
Thankyou 😊 this cheered me up. I hate to feel like a nuisance as I know hundreds of women are in the same boat iv been a member for ever but wasn't brave enough to post now I can't stop 😂 i learn something new every here thats for sure . Iv actually had 3 Brazil nuts today but will stick to 2 from now on . That's the thing you see I tend to over indulge at times . What I eat is healthy but instead of a few spoonfuls of mango il eat a whole one and instead of a few squares of pineapple il strip a whole one and eat the lot 😂 same goes with blue berries and strawberries i can't have a few i finish the whole container. So I should be good for vitamin c 😁
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