Folate and B12, what to do?

[fordefocus]

Good evening all,

My concern may be better placed in the PA pages but thought I would perhaps ask here first.

I have recently changed doctors surgeries so have had routine bloods done. My thyroid levels are not perfect but I'm comfortable with them for the time being at my current dosage.

I have however been prescribed Folic Acid 5mg tablets once daily for 3 months. I haven't yet spoke to a doctor about this so wanting to prepare myself for this discussion.

In July 17 I was feeling awful and although I had to have my levothyroxine dose increased by 50mcg, I was not happy with my B12 levels, I struggled to convince my stubborn doctor that I had neurological symptoms and desperately started taking 5000mg daily sublingual tablets up until about a month ago which have left me feeling much better. I feel I may have shot myself in the foot and masked a problem however.

My levels (amongst others) in July 17 were as follows-

Vitamin B12 - 211 ng/L [187-883]

Folate - 5 ng/ml [3.1-20]

My levels yesterday were as follows-

Serum vitamin B12 level 719 ng/L [187.0 - 883.0]

Serum ferritin level 145 ug/L [25.0 - 380.0]

Serum folate level 2.6 ug/L [3.1 - 20.0] Below low reference limit

. Lower levels indicate greater likelihood of folate deficiency. If this result is combined with reduced B12 levels (150 or less), Consider replacement on basis of result and clinical features. Suggest also commence I.M B12 replacement.

That last bit was a note from the lab. My B12 level is obviously only high because of the supplementation which I have informed him about. So without completely understanding the relationship between folate and b12 shall I begin the course of folic acid tablets or should I be discussing this further with him?

Thanks for your support.

[Taminaone]

Morning. I am not knowledgeable enough to answer your question but I wondered if you could tell me which make You use for the sublingual B12 5000 units you take. There are many informed people so you will get some great help.

[fordefocus in reply to Taminaone]

I have been taking these for about 4 months in the last 6. They obviously appear to have a good effect on me.

amazon.co.uk/dp/B0013OQGO6/...

I have no idea about sourcing good vitamins so noticed these recommended by a few members on here.

[Taminaone in reply to fordefocus]

thank you fordefocus sorry to delay have been distracted. Will order some.

[AddiFeelsCack]

Both B12 and B9 are becoming harder to get through diet, due to process and cooking regimes.

As much as taking the B12/Folate supplements can mask conditions against either. But, you can take supplements for both at the same time, in fact it is best to, but you should monitor and definitely source good quality supplements.

[HLAB35]

It's possible that it's not just an absorption issue for you, but also possibly due to a genetic defect (folic acid is synthetic and several conversions away form methylated folate - many people struggle with the conversion). I use the methylated forms of all b vitamins (b12, b9 and b6). Research folate vs folic acid and you'll find out.

[Ginny_Ickle]

Do supplement both. They both were low to start.

We both have some MTHFR and similar metabolic defects.

So we use Smarty Pants gummy vitamins, which have the methylated form of B12 and 9 (folate). They don't yet have activated B6 , so I need to get my p5p (pyridoxine-5-phosphate) separately. But they do have a good fish oil and CoQ10, so it.is easier and cheaper to get these than buy everything a la carte - and my husband takes these voluntarily.

[EggsGalore]

I have used 5mg folic acid for the last 8-10yrs without serious B12 supplementation ~ the reason was short-term memory deficit leading to speech /language problems ~ limited vocabulary !

I was repeatedly told that there was a cancer risk on having elevated folate levels, which was, much later, abandoned advice!

I had maintained that my immediate brain malfunction was critical! It was, and I'll explain:-

[ My recently deceased wife was the Hashimoto's patient and I was her support.]

- as a chemist , I was able to follow critical argument in detail and with a good science background, held my own against GPs and others; recent information has raised the prospect that Tinnitus is in fact a brain disorder precursor of dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Disease (etc?) ~ I'd had Tinnitus ! Recovery of my short-term memory was accompanied by a return of intellectual capacity that I hadn't realised was 'down the drain'

Unbeknownst to me, my 'school mate' of the 1950s lived along the road from me about half a mile and a few years ahead (me-1956, he-1952?) then only on 'nodding terms' ~ perchance, we both went to work at Harwell. He studied ?biochemistry at Oxford University (had already developed and deployed anti-radiation treatment at MRC Radiological Lab and rose to professor of Biochemistry (now Emeritus) ~ I worked in chemical engineering research with a variety of experience typical of such a path.

Prof A David Smith published work recently [3-4yrs back] on reducing the rate of brain shrinkage with advancing age, by using B12, B9, B6 combination now as [Alzaid] product.

My own experience on this problem is return of brain function and no more tinnitus, originally prescription strength (5mg) folic acid only. More recently, adding in Alzaid and/or methylcobolamin as well.

Colleague treated with antidepressant(s) and not monitored adequately, became suicidally depressed and was found to be both B12 and folate deficient ~ urgently restored upon discovery ~ medical neglect??

[fordefocus in reply to EggsGalore]

Thanks for your very interesting reply, lots for me to read up on.

Also I'm very sorry to hear about your wife.

I was once referred to a neurologist at the age of 17 with similar symptoms, I thought I was losing the plot, had to leave sixth form as I simply could not remember anything- particularly in psychology where it involved remembering studies etc. This turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me in the end.

Anyway, the neurologist was satisfied with my brain etc and noted my symptom severity and b12 level correlation. As soon as I started b12 tablets there was a significant improvement.

I wish I had been prescribed injections as at some point where I didn't understand the importance they took my b12 tablets off my prescription and I've never managed to get them reinstated.

I strongly believe with yourself that the b vitamins seem to play a big role with these sort of symptoms and conditions.

[LAHs]

Hi Eggs, thank you for bringing up the work of Prof David Smith his lecture at the Pernicious Anemia Society is something everyone should watch, here is a link:

youtube.com/watch?v=n7aMPF5...(Not working as expected?)

if that doesn't get you there just Google:

Pernicious Anaemia Society Conference 2013 - Part 2 - YouTube

His talk blew my mind and I have never missed my B12 nor B complex supplements since.

Oh and @fordefocus I wouldn't worry too much about a high (but sensible) dose, the B Vits are water soluble so any excess will be washed out through your urine.

And on a silly note, I understand EggsGalore! I have six chickens and can only eat two eggs a day (whose yolks give you B vitamins btw). Fortunately I live near a Food Bank who , together with my neighbours, are alway glad to take a few dozen free range eggs a week.