We to a doctor at Duke University Hospital in the States. One of the best in the United States.
She did say my thyroid t3 was a little high and may need to be adjust it. I am on 97.5mg or mcg , you all probably know what i mean twice a day. I take them together so 195.
She said because it’s pork , elevated t3 can cause heart problems
Anyone heard this before??
Thanks
The recommendation is that T3 is kept within the ranges. Did you get the actual blood test results? If so can you post them? How much higher was it?
How long after taking yout naturethroid was the blood test done?
The problem with Ft3 blood test is that the blood level can fluctuate very quickly. That is normal. So its possible it was done just as you had a spike....usually this occurs after taking meds. This is one of the reasons why people split their dose up into several during the day. I take half of my ndt first thing, most of the rest at lunch time & the small amount left I take at bedtime.
Do you have any symptoms of being over medicated? Common ones are sweating, shaking, loose Bowels, fast heart rate.
Forgot to say yes it is true that long term elevation of t3 can cause heart problems. Equally under treatment of hypothyroidism can cause heart problems too!!! So its all about the balance & so long as you stay within the thyroid hormone blood test ranges you should be fine.
As for ndts content containing t3 causing the heart problems that is NOT true. NDT was used for over a hundred years very sucessfully & safely, long before levothyroxine came along. That is spin that has been propogated by the pharmaceutical industry who make huge profits out of levothyroxine.
Hi. Thank you.
Yes the Doctor thought my t3 levels were too high
T3 was 5.19
T4 was 1.0
However yes I took my meds at 4:30 am. I had my blood drawn approximately 9:30 am
She is retesting since I took my meds that morning to see if that what caused the spike.
I always take on an empty stomach and w no other medicine.
I take any meds afterwards after 1 hour.
My body does have a problem conversation of t4 Into t3. I have had another specialist say would tweak the numbers by takin synthroid and Nature throid. What’s your thoughts? Thanks
You should always leave 24 hours between last dose and test as taking it a short while before test skews the results.
Yes I also have believed that big pharma pushed Synthroid.
Armour had been around for some time. Then synthroid was introduced.
There was a rumor that spread through the United States as well as Europe that armour was not stable. So doctors were told do not use it. Prescribe only synthroid, which was more expensive from big pharma and made them billions at that time.
So now, the doctors we see presently have been taught Old school by doctors who were taught that armour was not stable. From the article I read, this was a lie to push synthroid.
The endocrinologist I first started seeing absolutely refused to even prescribe armour.
I had to goto another doctor for that.
Then ended up at a specialist at duke university hospital in North Caroline in the United States.
This is “top notch” facility.
If you read up in thread, you will see why I had to have another endocrinologist. I have secondary adrenal insufficiency and possibly sleep apnea. Test has not been done on sleep apnea
Thanks for responding.
Definitely going not take any thyroid medicine 24 hours before blood test to get a true result.
Big Pharma and what they have done with LOTS of medications should be illegal in my opinion.
Quality of life as well as life and death are held in Big Pharmas hand.
It’s a shame.
This is my belief.
Thanks
Sincerely
Angela
Angela2121,
For greater completeness:
Armour was not the only desiccated thyroid product - for example in the UK we had Thyroid BP (though I do not know how many makers there were).
The methods of measuring T4 and T3 content in desiccated thyroid were crude and were based on iodine content. This was an inadequate method. (Armour themselves used to run an animal laboratory to test biological effect.)
The "stability", if read as accurately controlled T4 and T3 content was poor.
More recently, assay of the quality desiccated thyroid products has been based on good quality assays and if much better managed.
When launched, levothyroxine products appeared to promise better accuracy of dosing. They then failed in so many ways ranging from levothyroxine-monotherapy through variable product quality, variable absorption, biological inequivalence between products, and on and on.
Dr Lowe said that it was due to corruption (in USA - as I believe that's where it was first introduced) that levo became No.1 worldwide.
Many hypothyroid people feel much better when not taking levothyroxine and I am one. I am fortunate to have found Thyroiduk.org.uk and most on this forum know far more than any endocrinologists or doctors who all sing from the same hymn sheet i.e. levo alone should be prescribed.
In the UK, we could get, in special circumstances, NDT or T3 added to T4 or T3 only. First the 'Associations stopped NDT' a few years ago with people forced to buy their own. Just a few months ago they stopped prescribing T3 and so suddenly that patients were unprepared and left in the lurch.
The reason was that instead of being about £8 per month (cannot remember actual amount) to over £250 per month per month:
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
So instead of sourcing our thyroid hormones through the usual channels we have had to buy our own.
Doctors and endocrinologists refuse to 'hear' the patients' pleas that they still have disabling symptoms but are told but your tests confirm you are 'normal'. By that they mean somewhere within the range when we need a TSH of 1 or lower with FT4 and FT3 in the upper part of the range. The latter two are rarely tested which means 'other than thyroid hormones' are prescribed for the symptom so more money to Big Pharma and patient remains unwell.
The following doctor sent the following to the BTA and RCoP in UK and despite three yearly reminders for a response they never did before his death. Is ignorance bliss?
thyroidscience.com/Criticis...
Thank you for the links. Very informative and helpful to me.
I am smarter than a lot of endocrinologist because I live day to day with my Body.
I know my symptoms and I know when I feel better as well as feeling horrible.
It’s horrific that doctors refuse to listen to patients symptoms as well as blood test.
Blood test do not tell the whole story.
I have learned so much in 2017.
Looking forward to more information to help myself and demand Doctors listen to me and blood test results.
Thanks again.
Take care
Sincerely
Angela
You might like to read the following - also by Dr Lowe who would never prescribe T4 at all. Only NDT or T3.
Chapter 2
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
Chapter 3
nebula.wsimg.com/b822d36efe...
Chapter 7
Yes taking them at that time will have caused the spike of T3. Definately. Leave 24 hrs before blood test then take after the blood test. Sounds like you will then hopefully get an increase. Best to have the trst as early as you can in the morning, on a fast.
id leave the snythroid out of it for the moment. See what the new blood test says when done first thing in the morning on a fast, have had no naturethroid for 24 hrs. You might just need a straight increase of naturethroid.
The OP is taking NDT, which contains T3. Therefore the last dose should be 12 hours away from the blood draw, not 24, that's for T4. If she leave 24 hours she will get a false low.
So if I’m on just Nature Throid then is it just 12 hours before blood draw GG.
Thanks
Yes. 
I think Greygoose we have disagreed on this before. ...lol.
There is T4 & T3 in her meds, well T1 & T2 for that matter......so for T4 you leave 24 hrs & ure saying its 12hrs for t3. One could argue that 12Hrs will give a false reading for the T4. So frankly you can take your pick as to which way you swing. Ive always been told by a number of specialists over the years dealing with my ndt to leave a 24 hrs gap so its the one I always relay. I can only speak from what Ive been advised, nothing more.
Lol. No endocrinologist can agree. No wonder there is a lot of confusion.
I wish they could really come together and find real solutions for the people verses the pharmaceutical companies. ❤️thank you all for information
I understand your reasoning, but it's far more important to have an accurate reading for the FT3 than for the FT4. It wouldn't really matter if you didn't test the FT4 at all, because, T3 being the active hormone, that's the number you need to know. And, you know the FT4 is going to be low, anyway, when taking T3.
I do understand what your saying Greygoose. However T3 is the one thyroid hormone that naturally fluctuates widely in a 24hrs period whereas T4 is more stable so its actually quite difficult to get consistent readings of a true T3 level. Paul Robinson talks about this in his book Living with T3 only, reporting that he & his GP found that prescribing according to the Ft3 blood test alone did not work as they were constantly adjusting his dose which made him feel awful.
Luckily Angela is on a ndt which actually has a far bigger proportion of T4 in it to T3. To be sucessful with a ndt you do need to be able to convert to some degree so Im sorry I dont agree with you....the ft4 level gives a good & more reliable indicstor of whether you are optimising but not over cooking the thyroid levels. And the Ft3 should reflect that in its level but is not entirely reliable. By doing a blood test after 12 hrs you are not going to get a reliable reading of the ft4 either as that IS against the protocol to test & the ft3 on its own is notoriously difficult to prescribe by.
Of course one would hope that a good doctor would take into account how ones feeling alongside signs & symptoms but we all know this vital part is often just missed off all together. The blood test rules!!!
I dont know about low T4 on a ndt mine has always been in the upper third.....less than that & I feel unwell.
This is only my opinion.....as Im just a meer patient whos been a longtime user on a ndt med. We may just have to agree to disagree. 😊
Well, that makes absolutely no sense to me, so we are going to have to agree to disagree.
If I may jump in on this discussion
I want to know how and why the doctor belief is that T3 is less stable than T4??
The reason I ask is because as I have stated earlier in the thread that was a lie that t3 (armour) was less stable than T4. This was so that big pharma could sell their T4 ( levothyroxine and Synthroid). It was about money.
So I get what your doctor is saying that T3 is less stable. However what fact backs that up.
I do not have any reason to make anyone upset. So please no one take it that way. I just feel like that’s a relevant question. What study proves after say 2004 that States T3 is less stable and can they explain the chemistry behind that.
My first thought was 24 hours because I take it in the morning once every day.
So I would be getting a blood drawn on 24 hour window.
But does anyone know the question I’m asking.
I believe the fact T3 was said to be less stable was how the doctors push Synthroid.
In conclusion I will wait 24 hours but my reasons are different. I want my T3 to remain at a high level.
Why? Because I feel better.
I’m not way out of the ball park. So if it comes down more I’m ok w that. Because I don’t won’t them to change my medicine. I believe my Nature Throid at its current level is working.
I have no symptoms of taking too much T3
No dizziness
No diarrhea
No heart palpitations.
Does that all make sense?
I love this entire site because we can come together to try to solve the mystery that endocrinologist around the globe cannot answer and there is controversy among all doctors on this very subject. I want to know the chemistry and the formula that backs up the statement T3 is less stable than T4. I don’t want to just take someone’s word for it at face value.
Thanks
Sincerely
Angela
Very good question, Angela. We should never just believe everything they tell us, we should ask for proof, and then use our own logic to think things through. I'm not going to argue this point, but everything I've learnt so far points to the fact that T3 is not as unstable as they would have us believe, and that the FT3 result is the most important. And, let's face it, the majority of doctors really do not understand T3.
GG that is so true. My belief is that the last two generations of doctors were TAUGHT T3 is not stable.
The reason they say this is because they were told this in medical school.
No one showed them the formula that proved T 3 was unstable, that’s what they were taught because of the lie and rumors that were spread many years ago to sell levothyroxine.
When you are in medical School there is so much to learn and you just believe some things you are told. You take them as true because they assume their doctor professor is right.
He’s only going on what he was told without asking why.
By the way, not this means anything but my sister is an OB/ GYN (not a specialist in Endocrinology obviously) and my brother has a masters in chemistry
Many discussions as well as debates take place at our Thanksgiving dinner and Christmas dinner. ❤️
I can imagine! It must be very interesting.
Your T4 -do you mean Ft4 ? Was 1.0? Or do you mean 10? Can you pop the range on (numbers in brackets) as you're in the USA your ranges are very different to the UKs. Thanks.
T4 was 1.0 However the Range can go lower. Let me look at the range
T4 normal range is .52-1.21. My thoughts are do I want that number higher lower
Tsh was actually just.01 lower than the lowest on the normal range
Hi
I wanted to repost my numbers.
TSH= .02
( .34-5.66)= Range
Free T4= 1.00
(0.52-1.21)= Range
Free T3 = 5.19
(2.20- 3.80)= Range
Those are the only numbers I have.
Should I have ask for a plain T4?
Is that different from Free t4
Or does that even matter??
Thanks so much
Often on a ndt the tsh becomes supressed. That is nothing to worry about so long as your actual thyroid hormones are in range. Thats whats important. The TSH is simply a signal from the pitutuary telling your thyroid to produce more or less. It is not a thyroid hormone. You need to wait for the next blood test as the last one has given a false reading as it was taken too close to your meds.
Do you feel well on your present dose? Any symptoms?
Yes I am extremely exhausted when I wake up but there maybe two other causes.
I have secondary adrenal insufficiency. This is where my pituitary gland is not telling my adrenal glands to produce cortisol. You must have cortisol as it feeds many organs and keeps blood pressure up. I take hydrocortisone for that (steroids) to keep my blood pressure just high enough to keep from passing out. When I went on steroids and did not feel any better. They did an MRI to rule out tumor putting pressure on the pituitary gland. MRI was normal.
The specialist also set me up to have a sleep apnea study.
So it could be hypothyroidism ( I have been diagnosed as hashimatos) not sure if that goes away on proper medications.
Then Seconday adrenal insufficiency which I take hydrocortisone.
Then possible sleep apnea because I wake up tired.
All 3 things have the same symptoms.
So trying to really get my numbers in line the best I can with thyroid to try to eliminate at least one thing.
Then the exhaustion and fatigue is either secondary adrenal insufficiency or it’s sleep apnea.
I realize this is a lot. Just putting all transparency about medical so if anyone might have ideas.
Thanks for responding
Sincerely
Angela
I haven't heard this before. I knew of a doctor who would never prescribe levothyroxine - only NDT or T3 for his Resistant Patients.
I believe a lot of things that doctors/endos 'think' isn't scientifically proven and are mainly rumours - maybe by Big Pharma who want only levo to be prescribed.
NDT has been in use for over 100 years, safely, with no apparent problems and there were no blood tests then up until the 60's when blood tests were introduced along with levothyroxine (T4). Before the introduction of NDT we just died a horrible death.
So in my view (and am not medically qualified) if we take levo alone which consists of only T4 (which should convert to T3) , they test TSH and T4 mainly and don't often test T3, Free T4, Free T3.
If we take NDT it consists of T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. so blood tests cannot correlate.
Most doctors/endocrinologists don't appear to know much but they do seem to me to be 'old wives' tales i.e. not proven - and they don't understand anything about NDTs or how our body functions in the need for thyroid hormones.
This is from an archived site which might be helpful and there are other topics at the top of the page. Some may not be accessible now.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
If we took too much of any thyroid hormones and our heart went too fast, I think we'd drop our dose without even going to GP. We'd also have other unpleasant symptoms.
This is the first time I have ever heard or read of a doctor saying that elevated T3 is dangerous because you are taking hormones made from pig!
Would she feel differently if your thyroid hormone treatment came from a cow or a sheep?
One thing that isn't clear is whether your test results are for Total T4 and Total T3 or if they are for Free T4 and Free T3.
Free T4 and Free T3 are far more accurate indicators of how well you are being treated than Total T3 and Total T4.
When quoting any blood test results we really need the reference ranges. There is a big difference in the interpretation of the following results - reference ranges are all made up just to make a point :
T4 was 1.0 ; Ref range = 0.5 - 1.5 ; T4 is mid-range
T4 was 1.0 ; Ref range = 0 - 0.75 ; T4 is above range
T4 was 1.0 Ref range = 1.5 - 3.0 ; T4 is below range
I’m sure my result test was free t3
But regular t4
I don’t think they tested free t4.
Do you happen to know what the normal range is?
And once I get that free t4 blood test done. Is it helpful to be at the higher range or lower range.
I get confused
Thanks so much for replying.
You always reply to me and it is so so appreciated.
Thank you
Sincerely
Angela
I can't tell you what the reference range is, sorry. Each lab has their own reference ranges, and you would have to ask the lab that did the test(s) for the appropriate range(s).
In the UK some labs post their reference ranges on the web. I don't know if this is true in the US. It would be worth investigating.
Most people who are hypothyroid feel at their best when TSH is low in range, and Free T4 and Free T3 are in the top third of the range. This isn't a cast iron rule though - there are always exceptions.
A website you might find useful and interesting :
The author works in the US and has a practice based in Pennsylvania.
Another link that you might find useful :
stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...
If you look halfway down the page you can find links to labs that will do testing for patients directly, without insurance or a doctor being required.
Really I didn’t know u could get test done w/o doctors
I will definitely check that out.
Saves money too.
Just pay the lab.
Thanks so much.
I appreciate the information
My free t3 is greater than 5.0
The endocrinologist specialist feels that’s too high
My t4 however is only 1.0
But I think that’s different than free t3
I will check out ranges and labs on those websites
Thank you so much
Sincerely
Angela
T4 is the raw ingredient needed for converting to T3 in different body tissues. T4 contains 4 iodine atoms. T3 is created by removing one of the iodine atoms from T4.
Although the thyroid does produce some T3 directly, the majority of the T3 in the body is produced by conversion from T4 in different body tissues e.g. the liver, the gut, the kidney.
Doctors and endocrinologists get twitchy and upset if Free T3 goes above range by even tiny amounts. Some patients do too.
High Free T3 may cause the heart to speed up, and may cause palpitations.
But some hypothyroid patients need levels of T3 to go over the range in order to feel well.
I have zero symptoms from taking a high amount of Nature Throid
I feel better. I think the blood results were high just because I took thyroid before blood tests.
I didn’t know they were going to draw blood.
Thanks for information
Nature Throid
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