angry letter to GP

I visited a GP that I had not seen before last week. My child had an asthma like cough and I wanted my younger childs hairloss noted as another hypothyroid symptom> he asked me if I thought my child was hypothyroid. I am very overweight so he then started really interigating my kids almost shouting at them asking Does you mum feed you lots of cakes and biscuits? Do you exercise? What do you do? I told him that my younger child swims and does boxing and he started interigating my child about boxing positions as if he wanted proof that I wasnt lying. We dont eat sugar in our house except on a saturday night the boys have popcorn with thier dad watching a film. I explained this too him. He was just rude and belittled me infront my kids.

I have spent the last couple of hours writing the man a letter that I am tempted to send. I am a bit of a nightmare if someone really upsets me and if I am really cross I avoid the proper complaints proceedure. So I have written to him and said that he was rude and that it seemed to me that he assumed that I was too fat, female and stupid to make good life decisions so I have decided to rely on his decsion making in the future. I have explained thatI have not pressed for any of the other doctors to treat my thyroid condition as I am aware of how difficault it can be for doctors to work outside the current guidlines but being as he was so rude I want to make an exception. I have explained to him that thyroid treatment has been recommended for me by a doctor very well respected by thyriod patients and a NHS endo that I saw privatley and that I have seen an NHS endo and lots of GPs who have all had the good sense not to tell me to stop my self treatment with hormones or advise that they are unnessasary in writing or otherwise. I have listed my symptoms and explained that the last time I took a break from my hormones I fell 10 times in 2 weeks and broke my ankle, and became more and more drowsy and confused untill I started them again.

I have told him that itis his job to make decsions about my health so he needs to decide if I stop taking my hormones or if he is going to prescribe me some NDT. I have said that I want his decsion in writing or a print out of his decsion written in my notes. I have told him that if he decides I shuld stop my treatment I will do the stupidist thing I have ever done and take his advice. I have told him that I will keep a video diary to share with all the thyroid forums of my progess with out medication for all long as I am able and if he is confident that he has made a good decsion I would like a small clip of him explaining how much training he has done to treat thyroid issues and why e thinks he has made a good choice. I have pointed out that I beleive that had i not started my thyroid hormones again I would have gone into a coma and that I saught legal advice before sending letter.

I would never stop taking my meds because of that git but am tempted to send the letter to worry him. Do you think it would work?

I am also a bit concerned about falling out with surgery as I was hoping to try to do some GP training at some point but it might get me some free ndt.

he was so full of himself and obviously had no respect for me. I dont like that.

78 Replies

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  • mandyjane - what are you hoping to achieve?

  • Sometimes if we are so furious about our treatment it is good to write down all your issues and complaints but not send it to him.

    They have to follow the guidelines, whether they agree with them or not, otherwise they lose their livelihoods altogether and the BTA and RCoP all state that levo is the best.

    We have to make the decision ourselves of what's best for us. You can tell your doctor what you are doing and that you are improving. as your blood tests will also show a difference which they may not understand. NDT for instance contains all of the hormones, T4, T3, T2, T1 so your blood test results will not be the same as someone taking T4 only.

    They will not prescribed NDT as it is not now permitted at all. A Private Doctor may do so.

  • Thanks shaws. I probably wont sent it and I agree that we probably do have to make decsions about whats best for us but this man quite it quite clear that he thought me incapable of doing so and he is paid to make descions about my health. We also have to rely on doctors often to make decsions for us in emergencys. I for one worry about what on earth would happen if and when I need surgery. It is his problem if he is unable to prescribe me NDT and I would accept an aplogetic letter explaining why he is unable to do so.I am also doing them a favour by prescribing it for myself and should be thanked not spoken too as if I am stupid. I have put up with a lot of the years from doctors, making me worse with poor treatment, putting me on stupid diets, giving me daft advise and being rude about my weight. But this man took rudeness to a whole new level and I felt bullied. People dont get away with bullying me Shaws, especailly infront my kids. This letter I have written is part of the process of me deciding what action I will take and how I will do it.

  • It is how you respond that will help your children to deal with bullying if they ever face it themselves. We know many children get bullied at school.

    We have to rise above it somehow as tit for tat doesn't always smooth the way forward.

    Insensitive doctors or teachers can ruin lives - no doubt abut that - but you have to concentrate on yourself alone at present, get yourself well and your children will have one of the best examples of how to prove to the doctor that he was wrong in his remarks and bullying about weight gain etc.

    :)

  • Thanks Shaws. I agree we have to choose our battles and tit for tat is a bit of a mine feild but I also had found not responding can lead to furthur bullying down the line. You can be seen as weak and a ready victim. I am not going to battle with this man but I needed to express my anger in a safe space before deciding how to respond. It is not a big deal. I will let my usual GP know that I felt disrespected and a bit bullied and I will avoid him in future. I do enjoy a bit of a battle but sometimes you lose more than you gain and it needs to be weighed up. I tend not to start a fight but if someone starts one with me I aim to win the battle but often I have to just rise above it as you say because we have so many battles in life we cannot fight them all and my problems with my childs pediatricain are a priority. How I miss the pals service in Bristol. They have been a godsend in the past for allsorts of issues.

    My mum used to point out that I was a bit of a diva at times and her little mantra with me was 'no need to fuss', you dont need to make a fuss about this'.

  • Just change to a lady doctor in the practice. Another GP may not rub you up the wrong way. At the end of the day the brotherhood of the practise is stronger than

    the patient. There are booklets telling you how to make a complaint. You should ask your practise manager for one.

  • According to my endo the private Dr won't even prescribe the NDT... Hmm

  • I understand you are frustrated, but sending such a letter might not take you anywhere. Write it to get it out of your chest, but don't send it. Keep it, read it, print it and later on burn it.

    Doctors "blacklist" patients and they might hold grudge. They can be unbelievable petty even though patient would be right!

    I am a lot like you and I am short tempered. I have complained about a doctor but did it after rewriting the letter dozen times just to point out the things he did wrong and left out all personal thoughts.

  • You say the appt was for your children's problems so did you actually discuss your treatment ? As the others have said sending that angry letter won't help you in any way.

  • I am prescribed NDT (Armour) by my GP but not sure that it's doing what it should. So you may not be missing out on anything!

  • How have you managed that! Can't get my gp or endo to let me try NDT. You been on it long?

  • I tried it years ago but it made me feel worse. At that time I didn't realise that adrenals had to be optimal. I've been in touch with the Rt3-adrenals yahoo group & been supporting my adrenals with glandular. They suggested trying NDT so after a routine blood test TSH was super high (as usual) doc phoned I asked if I could try it & told him that he could prescribe it on a named patient basis, went in to see him & after some discussion ( not entirely supportive) he prescribed it! He did say that it would have a placebo affect & that he would be treating blood tests & not symptoms. I have blood test on Wednesday so we'll see.

  • I personally would not send the letter , you could arrange to speak to the practise manager if you were offended by anything a doctor said to you , I myself have done this and I got a fair hearing with the offending doctor present and he apologised .I hope that whatever you do it get resolves itself

  • I think you were lucky Lola and I dont know when you did this but attitudes have changed a lot since we lost legal aid. There used to be a financail incentive to resolving complaints as a failure to resolve could lead to legal action which would be costly to defend.

    I think however it is probably best not to go in all guns blasing this time. I will write a letter as I express myself much better in writing but I will address it to my usual GP who is a very thoughful, kind person and very much a gentleman. My usual GP is in charge of complaints. I think as much as I prefer to be a tough cookie, being a maiden in distress might be a better way to deal with this. I will also take the letter in and discuss it with my GP.

  • I never even thought of bringing legal aid into it ..I had a very rude doctor that treated me badly while I was at my lowest ebb both mentally and physically ..I came home sat and cried then decided to call the practise manager to voice my complaint ..this was 2 yrs 7 months ago !

  • I would complain to the practice manager that he bullied your children, but not send that letter as it won't achieve anything.

  • Yes , having been through something like this, that's what I feel too

  • Just a thought, could you have a word with the practice manager? Can you PM me with the name of the private endo that you saw.

  • Don't you feel better, just having written the letter to this tool, without actually sending it? Clearly, he thinks ill of your child rearing efforts but don't you think ill of his medical prowess?

    The kind of letter you're considering is best written when one is cold as ice and in absolute command of one's emotions. For me, that would be rarely :D :P yet I have written many such letters, never sending them, constantly refining them, returning to them at some new slight, trite comment or fresh buffoonery.

    For me, they absolutely served a purpose ( although I haven't started a new one since I left the City, awash with posturing popinjays, more than seven years ago ) These days, I can't be @rsed and if some tw*t pea-brained learned by rote quack wants to have a go...knock yourself out, mister (they are invariably male) but talk to the hand - the face ain't listening.

    Forge on, missus xx

  • Thanks rapunzel.

    You are a woman who understands where I am at. I think I resort to this kind of letter writing stuff especially when I feel people underestimate me, men especailly. I have only acted on such impulses once, it turned into a very one sided 2 week battle. I was very successful against all the odds and often sit a gloat about it to myself. I have taken revenge twice in my life and it has been the best therepy I could possible imagine. But on both those occasions it was an emergency. I was doing it because I had too to protect myself and my child. I can easily protect myself from this man with out making a fuss.and my children certainly wont be exposed to him again.

    I am going to talk to my usual GP and ask for this upset to be resolved. I had a freind when I was a child who used to put a bit of soap in her eyes to make her dad think she had been crying but I dont think I want to suffer for the cause. He used to give her money and punish her brother for hurting her. Men have no idea how superior we all are and do stupid stuff as a result.

  • Bravo.

    Many 'Men have no idea how superior we all are and do stupid stuff as a result.'

    But some are complete pussycats. We marry them. Snog some of the rest and avoid the others, no? :D :P

  • Very well said lady !!😋

  • 😘

  • Whether we like it or not we need to find a way to work together with doctors, you might find one in the surgery you relate to better. It's hard when we're not feeling well but we can change how we communicate with doctors in appointments if it helps. So for example, next time just quietly ask the doctor not to quiz the children as it upsets them and you. You'll be prepared next time. It's sometimes hard to think how to respond in the moment of time but being calmly direct is sometimes best. Or just tell the doctor you don't feel comfortable with their questions. See what happens. Letters stay on your file whereas your conversation is a momentary exchange and you can take it back. You can't take back written items.

  • Thank you. Some people are better at responding in the moment and are able to say the right stuff. I am a slow processer and have to work quite hard to think things through. I am rarely able to say something at the time if I feel I am being badly treated. I often dont even realise whats wrong or why I am upset for a few days. I do tend to write letters but I do a lot of thinking before sending. I am blowing off steam right now and also processing. I have written a letter saying what I would really like to say. Now I need to work out what I am going to say. Your responses have all been very helpful and the steam blowing out of both my ears is now just like puffs of whispy cloud that float away rather than funnels of a steam train.

    I am goingt write a letter to my usual GP with lots of subjective emtional based rather than fact based statements. So I will say that ' I felt that I was being bullied'. ' I didnt like the way he spoke to my children' 'I didnt feel respected' 'I have been unable to sleep for thinking about the things he said' I will remind my GP that I have poor health, two children with learning difficaultys and a very difficault husband and that I need people to be gentle and kind towards me in consultations. That sort of stuff.

  • I think the phrases you quote in your second paragraph above are the right sort of thing to present in a letter to your more sympathetic GP.

    I know what you mean about never having the right phrases to mind when you're dealing with a very difficult person. It's so frustrating, isn't it? I write lots of letters when I'm angry after a consultation, that I don't send in the end. I've also sent a few that perhaps I shouldn't have sent! I tend to become very sarcastic when confronted with idiots, thinking of ever more inventive ways to call their intelligence and integrity into question. It makes me feel better! :-D

  • ys it is very frustrating if you dont have a ready answer. My child freind mother taught her child some come backs to use in the play ground. It seem to give him a lot of confidence and he was one of the most respected children by teachers, other parents and most importantly his peers. Apparently nobody dared insult him. I remmber on of the come backs he was taught to say was if anyone said anything about his appearance derogitory he used to say. ' I think you are confused I am not a mirror'.

    I am far to often left speach less but I do make up for it later.

  • What a weird doctor to shout at children.

    Next time you see a doctor (or any medical professional) and they ask about your children's activities and the children are there, tell them to ask the children themselves as your children aren't mute. Then tell the children to answer the doctor (or nurse or whoever's) questions.

    Just prompt the child if they forget for example they go swimming every Tuesday by saying something like "Who is [name of swimming instructor] and what do they teach you?"

    This will make the appointment take longer but it is part of their job, plus it shows you aren't hiding anything about your children's lifestyle.

  • Thanks Blue bug.

    I think my children felt quite intimidated but I take on board your suggestions. All three of us were struck a bit speech less. He was asking my children but in an abrupt accusatory way. I think we will all wanted to get out as quick as possible. I do record all my younger childs activities as I home school him. I have however had to stop the boxing for a while as it really is too strenuous for him. He dreaded going and was wiped out the next day. We do go for a gentle swim but my child spends a lot of time in his bed reading as he does not have the energy to move much. If my child had told him this he would have had a feild day. I did speak up at the time because I didnt feel he could be trusted with information from my child who is not experianced enough to know the possible consequences of telling him they are in bed all the time or lying on the sofa watching horrible historys. This is nt something I would feel I need to hide from my usual doctors and I have explained the situation to my childs pediatrician. So I am not hiding anything bt would rather not tell a doctor with no comprehension of thyroid issues or children the problems we face.

    It has made me decide to record my childs food and calorie consumption. I asked him to refer my child to a dietician but he refused.

  • Some GPs especially older male ones don't really know what to do when they are asked to record something rather than treat it and/or they don't know what is wrong with a patient.

    So he probably thinks you were wasting his time because he couldn't do any treatment. The idiot doesn't realise what he records can be used years later to diagnose something.

    However there is no reason to shout at children. He has obviously forgotten that while adults are accused of lying or mishearing all the time, more and more children are being believed.

    I guess you are just going to have to get the paediatrician to record every issue explaining that you are only telling him/her because some of the GPs in your practice refuse to examine your children when they are sick.

  • Why in earth would you require legal aid?

  • You dont require legal aid to make a complaint at all but legal action used to be a possiblity if complaints were not resolved. It used to be very easy to get a soliceter involved and that usually meant that the health authority had to employ some legal defence. When I worked in the health service complaints were taken very seriously and there was a lot of work and funding going into resolving issues so that legal action didnt not happen. Attitudes changed overnight when legal aid was stopped. Organisations like Pals lost funding in a lot of areas and making complaints I would imagine for most people has become a waste of time and effort.

    I think I will raise the issues with my usual GP as he is a kind person and in charge of complaints. But all the state services now are effectively unaccountale to us minions. We have no clout and no legal rights. Which sometime means we have to think out of the box. I would have been the first t write to practice manager a few years ago and I would have involved pals first. Now a days I have to think a lot harder.

  • I personally find younger or 40 something female GPs are more approachable with a more caring attitude. Instead of male GPs. He probably has problems at home !

  • I would guess his poor wife has the problems living with him. I agree about young female GPS, I have come across some really good ones and there is a lovely one in the surgery. I think shes the reason the surgery test T3. The nurse who takes my blood has thyroid issues and if T3 is not put on my form she always goes t find this lady doctor to get it put on. I get the feeling she is one of those doctors that would like to treat us properly but does not have the support of her peers.

    The surgery has 2 good GPs that I have found out of about 8 doctors. The others are rubbish.

  • Oh I don't know I've met a number of rude and dismissive young female GPs. Seems to be an issue across the profession. I have however found a wonderful female GP at my practice who I guess is over 40 and she is now the only one I will see.

    I do find it interesting though that I have felt condescended to and dismissed by every male GP at the practice - however my husband's experience has been completely different and every time he goes in they are thorough and helpful!

  • It is common to be very arrogant and rude all round but I have met quite a few nice ones.

    I cant imagine a man would have spoken to another man in the way I was spoken to. My mother whom I quote too often used to say that it was the most powerful people who are oppressed in the world. The problem often is that oppressed people do not realise they are powerful. To sum up men are scared of us. It is a bit like fear aggression in a dog they attack because they feel threatened and they gang upon us, put us down, try to undermine our confidence. What I like to do when people like this doctor threat me badly is first work out where my power is. Hence the letter. Then I decide to be a bit kind a bit less vindictive a bit more reasonable. I like to know that I can make thier lives very difficalt if I want to and then I feel able to negocaite, deal with them from a position of strengh and power rather than as a helpless victim. There is method in my madness.

  • I find that younger male GPs and female GPs regardless of age treat me fine. Older male GPs tend to be a problem.

    Though some younger male GPs are patronising when it comes to menstruation problems, which means I have to stop myself laughing so can't say anything to them. Though if I did speak it would be really rude.

  • mandyjane - practice managers are employed by GP Partners, it's a cosy arrangement where they all cover each other's backs. The profession has zero accountability and don't they know it.

    I sometimes amuse myself by saying in a gushing manner at the end of the appointment "thank you so much for your help, you've been so very kind and helpful". It makes me feel better and if they realise it's sarcasm then win win!

    Respect needs to be earned, you don't get it cos of your job.

  • I agree cinnimon practice managers are most there to protect doctors and I imagine drs dont even get to hear abut the poor treatment or damaging advice they have given.

    I am going to join one of the patient participation groups they run. I like your gushing sarcasm. I have been thinking about writing a little amusing book. I would like to call it 'trust me I am a doctor' and I would like to fill it full of quotes from patients of daft/ stupid/ laughable comments doctors have made. I am going to call chapter one 'phobing off when we dont want to write a refferal or order a test.' I would like to let the surgery know that I am collecting comments for this book and I will say at te end of consultations 'can I quote you on any of this'

    I best this forum could come up with some crackers in terms of daft comments.

  • mandyjane joining the patient participation group would be a smart move and could be really useful.

    I've never considered myself a feminist but have pretty much become one overwhelmingly due to the appalling attitude of NHS doctors. They (male doctors) wouldn't dare speak to male patients in this way and would probably be worried about getting thumped.

    Also reckon that some of these male doctors believe that female, especially middle-aged, patients shouldn't have opinions or question their diagnoses. The last bastion of sexism and misogyny is medicine.

    Definitely make a complaint in writing to the Practice Manager but stick to facts only. Remember, any complaints are bought up at a GP's 5 year revalidation. You could also speak with the Care Quality Commission who're hated by GPs, I've found them to be genuinely concerned and will listen.

    A book is a great idea, light relief for all thyroid patients!

  • I totally agree that you should write a well throughout factual complaint. All complaints have to be recorded for inspection by CQC when they do their inspection. My daughter made a complaint about a female GP who has absolutely no bedside manner at all. I have heard many patients complain about her when leaving the surgery. So I'm sure it wasn't the first. It was resolved to a degree and she got an apology in writing. The only thing that has changed for her is that she won't see that GP again.

    Unless people are prepared to complain these GPs will continue to abuse their power and they must not be allowed to do this. A well though factual complaint sent to the practice manager that point out how he made you and your children feel is the way forward. They can't ignore it and please make sure you keep a copy of it. Good luck x

  • I had an experience in Australia (with small differences the world chauvinism and medical corruption is the same). I was 77 y.o. suffering from bad headaches. They wanted me to have an MRI (I had to pay 800 dollars) In view that after I had my brain tumor removed I did not have the last MRI of five some years before, I asked politely if I could have the MRI free taking into consideration the fact that the Health System 'owed me an MRI' so to speak. The GP, this time a woman, in view of my insistence (polite as it was), called the Manager and I was invited to leave and never come back to see any of the doctors in that practice. Some doctors have their hands tied. They loose their jobs if they do not follow the medical practice guidelines. Some young women doctors can found themselves in that predicament, specially if they are from India, China etc. My GP seems to be managing ok so far; she's young, from India and helpful.

    monsie

  • If you consider that a GP was out of order, abusive in any way, particularly to or in front of children, then I consider you have a right to send a complaint letter to the Practice Manager. I have done that in the past but I was certain I was in the right. They can't throw you out of the practice if your complaint is justified. I have to admit though that doing nothing is better for an easy life and to not rock the boat. He had no right to speak like that. You can read the Hippocratic Oath on Thyroid UK website.... how doctors are meant to behave if they are registered.

  • Thanks Marigold.

    Often abusive people are good social manipulators and if they have a bit of intelligence will abuse in ways that are difficault to prove. I feel that that is what happened. What he said lacked understanding and sensitivity and all I would be able to challange would be that in a complaints proceedure. His bullying behavior was more about him standing over us, bombarding us with questions designed to undermine my intelligence and parenting. Argueing with no basis. It is difficault to prove. I can imagine he would take things furthur if he could of got away with it and I imagine if I made subsequent visits his behavior would escallate. I would not like him to be looking after a relative of mine with something like dementia.Who knows what might go on behind closed doors.I live with similar problems at home and have support from an organisation that supports women wh suffer domestic abuse but I am not in a position to call the police or have him removed as he does not make direct threats or instigate physical violence. he will have to leave but I have to document and provide a lot of imformation.

    I would not use the word abuse in a complaint it is very inflamitory as a word these day. I will write to my usual GP, not to try to prove anything but to raise awareness and I will say that felt bullied. I think from what the receptionist said they maybe aware of issues. I will also say something as a lot of women may not feel able to speak up about him or other might have done but need some back up.I beleive that word are often lke the butterfly wing effect tha causes an earthquake on the otherside of the planet. If I say something in a well thought out way it might just open things up a bit for others. It might mean for example that the GP I talk to about this might listen abit more carefullly to what others say about this man. Like his wife or the receptionists

    I used to go for an easy life and avoid conflict but I found it was a bit like burying my head in the sand while all my issues which were mostly to do with myself but often other people as well mounted up and overwhelmed me and it was my children that sufferred the most at the time. I didnt actually use sand I used the bible and religion. I am having to deal with 30 years of built up problems that I tried to pray away rather than sort out and solve. My life is however more fun, my children are much happier. I am content, clear minded, empowered and have a great sense of purpose. But I do find there are a lot of battles to fight in life butI also believe thats why I am on this planet, living this life and part of this forum.

  • "Often abusive people are good social manipulators and if they have a bit of intelligence will abuse in ways that are difficault to prove."

    I think you've put this very well. It seems you are dealing with abusive behaviour at home as well as in medical consultations. The abusers who are good manipulators most often fall within the spectrum of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, though there are other personality disorders which are relevant here. However, they're not often diagnosed before their behaviour results in a criminal charge. I've dealt with narcissists at close quarters, so I can empathise with your situation.

  • I will look that one up Narcissistic personality. I am fairly sure my husband has something called 'pathological demand avoidence' It is something on autistic specrum where by people find anykind of responsibilty or life demand frigtening and thier response to this is to avoid taking anykind of responsibility and to become very controlling to manage high levels of anxiety and to become very dependant on others. They are often very abusive and thier avoidence of responsibity involves a lot of socail manpulation. Unlike a lot of people with autism, socail skills when you dont live with them can appear very good. Unfortunatley for me my husbands biggest avoidence issue is asking for help with his anxiety. I can see that he is a very frightened man but he is also nasty. My last attempt to leave ended up with my children removed ( thankfully for a very short time) as he convinced socail services I was and would harm them. I was made homeless for months with that silly idoit caring for my kids. I have been taken prisoner by him. I am also a slave to meeting all the needs of the household and I pay for everything. All the bills, all the food, all the childrens needs. If I try to rdress the balance or challange him or do something like go out at times he is extremely horrible. I took myself off for a weekend a couple of years ago and he went into my bedroom, split medication out of my tin ( unfortunatley the lock had broken a few days before and he knew as I had asked him to help fix it) took photos sent them to social services saying I was not keeping my medication safe and it was dangerous for the kids. Thankfully I am a strong person and am learning to social manipulate myself.

  • No wonder you are upset with the men in your life who try to make you submit. Luckily you are clued up to your children's needs in an emergency, and can ring 999 if there is any doubt.

    My grandson has asthma which gets worse if he is distressed.

    That is why that male doctor should be criticised as children get upset if a stranger shouts at them and won't go to the doctors!

  • Gosh Hillwoman I have just read up on this Narcissistic personality disorder and boy it sums up this GP and I am a bit a bit scared. It is also consistant with a psychatrist I was under the care of some years ago. Unfortunalty I was really ill at the time and it was hell on earth. He was refusing me the treatment I needed and trying to force stuff on me that I didnt feel safe with. Infact I felt I could trust anything he suggested. Thankfully as I worked for the mental health service I knew the safe guarding officer who was a really lovely man. I phoned him. He said that he did know of this man and he explained how I could make ot a legal document preventing this doctor from having any more access or influence in my care. I look back now and realise how much I must have challanged him. It was really weird some of the stuff that he was doing. He had a private meeting with my GP at one time. I refused to attend. After the meeting he had when ever I visited the surgery another doctor would come in the room. None of the doctors would see me on thier own. It was really wierd. I had to change surgery and went back to a previous GP who knew me well. He tried to get this psychatrist to prescribe me some medication that I needed and I remmber him saying too me that this shrink had refused and that he was rather loud down the phone. It was frightening. Thankfully after I produced legal document the health service found me a new doctor who was lovely. My response when people upset me tend to be to talk about it with lots of people, so lots of his collogues were hearing about his behavior towards me. I remember one of the nurses saying to me to stop talking about him. The situation just keep escalating and I think the people working with him could see how angry he was getting. I think I need to manage this doctor very carefully. He was very arrogant and I did pick up on some grandiose traits. I was going to suggest to my usual GP that he might be a bit manic becuase of his superior attitude with can come on manic people sometimes but I think your right he has a nasty personality problem. I would imagine medicine attracts these people. I think I will carry on with current plan to speak to GP as I planned but maybe take some other action to protect myself. Thus doctor is not someone I want to do battle with. No way. Unfortunatley Ihave already challanged him. he asked me loads of questions about thyroid care which I gave him a written answer too. He might not have appricated a lesser being making him aware that I know more than him.

  • I think your instincts are correct here. I also think you're right in observing that medicine does seem to attract people with NPD, and a minority may even be psychopathic (sometimes known as Anti-Social P.D.).

    I'm not a trained psychologist, but I do know that you need to remove yourself from the sphere of influence of anyone you may suspect of NPD. They won't change. Also, as someone once put it to me, "a narcissist will cheerfully throw you under a bus, if it suits their agenda".

    It's hard to know whether your husband's problem is the kind of disorder you refer to. There are other people on the forum who know a lot about autism and its effects in adults. Has your husband ever been assessed for this? Has he ever seen a clinical psychologist, for instance? I sympathise with your situation, it sounds intolerable to live with, and I'd really recommend finding support through a local women's group or a domestic abuse support service, if such exists in your area. A lot have had their funding cut in the name of austerity, but I hope you can find something.

  • I have some support from an organisation that support women with domestic abuse instigated by my husbands GP who is lush. My husband will not seek anykind of help or advice. I would love to get him assessed by an autistic service but he will not go. His siblings all hate him as he was so difficault to grow up with and I have since been told by his sister that they were really worried for me when I married him. The problem is he presents to the outside world and did to me for a while as a normal human. I am on the case but I am having to document all his crazy control stuff. Thankfully I have found he responds well to threat. He used to keep waking me up in the night to point out things that needed fixing in the house or stuff that needed cleaning but since I threatened to chuck a bucket of water over him if he ever did it again it has stopped. I have also told him that social services have been informed about his tendancy to make malcious allegations about me to exert control. So that has stopped. Unlike the GP I saw he is anxious and responds well to threat.

    That GP and psychiatrist probably feel so invincable that they would ignore a threat. As if us lesser being could ever hurt them.

  • He's not worth worrying about - let him out of your life or change to another practice.

  • Mandy Jane

    You are right in everything you say and from Australia, I am sending you a big hug. I wish I could talk to you in person. BUT do not send the letter... please. I have had horrible doctors insulting me, I know all about it... I read in one of the replies that you should talk to your doctor and show him your letter. No. Can you look for another GP? And approach him with a lot of humility (it is difficult to deal with the frustrations caused by doctors). I have been sick all my life from hypothyroidism, I suffer from my adrenal glands as well. If you only knew... If you cannot go to another GP, then try to convince him that NDT is the only thyroid replacement you can have as you do not convert T4 to T3. This happens to many people. T4 does not heal hypothyroidism. I am sure you have this problem. I am on NDT and still unwell... they have to find the right dosage, which it seems a difficult task. Do you know about Rt3 problem? Can you work on that? All the things you mentioned in your comment in this forum are common to all of us. The only way to approach it is with calm. I understand how you feel being treated so badly specially in front of your children, but try to talk to him or another doctor calmly. They abuse their power otherwise.

    Kindest regards and the best of luck

    monsie

  • No I have decided not to send the letter. They do abuse power and in my experiance they are particulary unpleasant to soft women. It seems that in this country being anything less than skinny gives a lot of people permission to disrespect. I am going to talk to my usual GP who is my usual GP becuase he is a pleasant kind man and this nasty doctor will be on my blacklist at the surgery. There is another female doctor I wont see and I always enjoy telling the receptionists if she is offerred that I will never see her again.

    I seem to have some kind of thyroid resistance and my child is in the process of getting tested for a genetic condition that causes thyroid resistance. I have improved a little bit and have found the right dose for me. A one point my usual GP phoned me up at home and asked me to come straight in as he was concerned about my blood results. I turned up about an hour later, my usual calm/half asleep self. I had taken some advice from a ore thyroid savy doctor who told me to just keep increasing the dose untill I felt better. My T3 was way over the range as was my T4 and was TSH nolonger existed. I had a slightly raised pulse probably caused by the rush to the doctors. My GP looked puzzed, looked at te bottle of NDT I had been taking and decied not to admit me to hospital as I wanst any iller than usual.

    I have been helped by some homepathic stuff and my resistance has improved. I take about 3 grains now and if I go higher I get a racing pulse. Having read up about this genetic condition we might have thyroid replacement can help a bit but it is not as effective as it is for most people. I have another post about possible genetic conditions if you are interested. The one we might have is called resistance to thyroid alpha.

  • Hi Mandy

    Good, you know a lot of things... Do not raise the amount you are taking, my partner had a bit of a heart problem from taking too much NDT. He had to go to hospital for three days. His pulse is always faster than it should be. I personally prefer to deal with women doctors !!!Yes, I would like to know about the genetic thing you mention in your comment. Let me know. Thanks.

    monsie :-)

  • Dear Monsie,

    The genitic condition that I am concerned both I and my child might have is called resistance to thyroid alpha. It seem to affect people with dyspraxia. Often in children they do not grow as expected (not a problem for myself and my child) but often have delayed loss of milk teeth which I think we have both had. People with it are hypothyroid with normal blood results and a tendancy to have a low T4 but high T3. My child has dyspraxia. All the classic hypothyroid symptoms,a normal TSH and low T4. I have some kind of thyroid resistance. I have put up a post about different thyroid conditions the same time as this post. I dont think it is all of them but there are more than I knew about.

  • Hi Mandy

    Thanks for your information. Nor my partner or myself suffer from dyspraxia. We have a new appointment to see our endocrinologist next week for the problem with too much Rt3, because I think this could be it...! NDT should work after trying so many dosages, but no, we have lots of symptoms and a very low body temperature we do not seem able to rise. Rt3 we dealt with it before but because the blood test is expensive and some doctors do not believe in it they say, we did not finalize the treatment... we needed a final blood test we never had, so we my be having problems with that. I had a doctor who insulted me, lied to me, saying that I was like drug addicts taking treating my thyroid for the sake of it, that goiter (I have had goiter since 2002), is not a sign of hypothyroidism. He ordered me to stop thyroid replacement therapy immediately.... when I told him that in Spain I was diagnosed hypothyroidism , he said "Spain is very far away"....!

    Thanks for your information

    monsie

  • Of course, many Medics can be arrogant and you had a bad time. Some good advice l had recently from similar Org to this is to ask for interview with Practice Manager and GP - they are there to sort out problems. Or send letter to doctor thru PM.

    Also as another suggests good to write down all your complaints and not send it; then after few days review it and do above if necessary

  • I always used to find pals very helpful. But I dont think they exist for primary care any more. I dont know the practice manager. I am planning to join the patient feedback group and will be asking about thyroid awareness training, working as equals with patients and the challanges of working wit patient experts and asking how the practice is going to approach these issues.

    I have decided t take this issue to my usual GP. he is the doctor incharge of complaints.= and he s a good man.

  • PALS still exists under another name, cant recall but that mainly relates to hospital complaints l believe. You dont need 'to know' Practice Mgr to speak or write to him. I asked for meeting 'with him and GP' and listed main complaints. Got a fairly abrupt letter back BUT the attitude is much better; first time after a trainee was with her so she came out beaming! I had said before l cdnt cope at home and she countered wtith her place was untidy, and l had said Dr Mercola (bril on web) book says thyroid test here is no good - so she just said: well better go there (US) then. I gather the Prac Mgr is there to help us. l had always got on fairly well except for this subject, but if she said l looked very well l took great pleasure in saying: just been to the Healer- and she got used to it in the end and said well keep on. Sadly he is gone and is unreplaceable hence the battle. l belong to the Patient Group but dont often make it - in winter anyway.

    Some other advice l did try (tho it grates) is to puff them up with eg: l do need your professional opinion in this matter etc. From guy with GP friends who said they are really pushed at times!

    Another person on here said: they write to GP before appointment - then they are forced to read what you want to say and have to listen so to speak. Good luck with all and dont give up.

  • PS CCG = Clinical Commissioning Group which replaces Area Health Authority do have a Complaints line - that is another possible. They were helpful about Hearing Aid troubles now at local Opticians since they are closing excellent Hospital Audiology departments, without notice.

  • Change GP practice if possuble or just go to another doctor. For me this just example abuse of power.

    Always you could report it doctor to Care Quality Commision even like annymous person

  • I would definitely send it - why are you trying to save his feelings & self esteem when he totally destroyed yours in front of your Sons too!! Where do these Doctors learn their patient skills these days??? Totally DIABOLICAL!!! I would also report him to the GMC & The RCGP ( Royal college of General Practioners) So Angry about how we are all being mistreated!!! Well no more - its gonna stop - we are rising up & fighting - WE CAN DO ITT!!!

  • I think if you report a doctor to the GMC in this country and he is complained about a few times they give them a medal and a new job working for them. I rarely go through the proper channels, it is often a huge effort with a slap in the face at the end. There is a organisation I have been in touch with that support people making health related complaints to the parlimentory ombedsmen and they more or less advise not too, that the system is abusive and currupt. I have my methods. My mother used to say that a well protected exrtrovert could bring down a dictator. I know I could if I went at it for a longtime I could lose that man his job.I think he probably should but I have better things to do and a good relationship other wise with the practice that I want to maintain.

    I am trying to work for a poltical goal that as well as doctors having to reach government targets and follow guidlines a significant amount of funding should depend of patient satifaction ratings. An awful lot of doctors would have to pull thier socks up if that happened. Poor ratings and the practice would lose funding and want rid of them. They would probably have to prove good ratings to get a new job.

  • You want good care for your family so you need a calm environment which does not fire you up. That's why a change in doctor or changing your practice might

    take the unpleasant behaviour you have received away. You must be in a tension state every time you walk through the door.

  • @EveP - from my experience the GMC are not interested in complaints about doctors, instead preferring to act as a mafioso due to doctors compulsorily paying hundreds of pounds each year for "training". It's a protection racket.

  • Wow thanks for the heads up - I'm obviously totally naive about these things! So much corruption, fraud, backhanders etc appears to be going on!! How are we ever to get past that 😠

  • I complained about a GP who I saw for the first time at a new practice. He threatened to withdraw my thyroid medication and access to blood tests because I had seen Dr Skinner. He called him a quack, likewise Dr Myhill who lives close to me. He had me sobbing in the surgery, it was too much to take after waiting 20 years to get diagnosed. I had gone in with excruciating anal fissures. He prescribed me an ointment contraindicated for hypothyroid patients. I was so incensed at this doctor's rant, my partner was there as a witness, I typed a 4 page letter to the practice manager to complain about this doctor. I have refused to see him since.

    6 months down the line, I had an apology from this doctor in writing. He said he didn't know my history and that was I diagnosed by an NHS GP. I had already seen a practice nurse, taken my typed history as I'm quite complicated to say the least, so they had something to go on until my notes arrived. He told me I needed surgery but never wrote a referral, this was 5 years ago. I now have a phobia of this surgery and won't even collect my repeat prescriptions.

    When I had to see another doctor there, she had read my notes and started the conversation with you've been through a lot. Well I have, and the last thing I needed was a rant from an arrogant doctor. Another doctor at this practice prescribed athlete's foot cream for my fissure which put me in orbit. It's a typical country practice, who think they are overworked if there are 4 people in the waiting room!

  • Hey Helcaster how're you doing? What happened to your horns and luscious hair ;)

    It's a typical country practice, who think they are overworked if there are 4 people in the waiting room!

    Wouldn't it be great if every doc was like Doc Martin? I would gladly put up with his Asperger's to have a GP half as smart.

    Another doctor at this practice prescribed athlete's foot cream for my fissure which put me in orbit. FFSakes. Not like it is on the telly, then :(

  • Hi Rapunzel, gosh that Highland cattle picture hasn't been on for ages lol, I'll have to come up with another one ;-)

    I'm doing ok thyroid wise, still the same no energy, but learning to live with it.

    I've had a 3 month episode of anal fissures which is so painful. I'm seeing a doctor on Tuesday to get a referral for surgery, I just can't go on with this. I'm pretty much housebound, so no fun! Unfortunately it's the athlete's foot cream doctor, as my good GP is on holiday, so not holding my breath on anything.

    This practice does make me laugh though, they run around all flustered and keep saying they are so busy, they need to go to an inner city area surgery to see what busy is!!

  • Oh you poor love, an anal fissure is nasty and sore. I am a bit of a letter writer so would write to the surgery and ask for the refferal. I find it is the best way to avoid them and make them hear what you want to say.

    I used to redress a mans wound after surgery for anal fissures. It has been so painful for him that he was on loads of diamorphine before surgery. If the doctor is giving cream is it supposed to numb the area because I swear by clove oil though not ever having had an anal fissure I cant garentee it wont catapult you into outer space either.

    Is this a possible thyroid thing if so I might ask the GP if I can have my ass removed just incase, like some people do with boobs to prevent breast cancer.

    Sounds like they need some valium in the water supply to stop them running around pretending to work.

  • I've had fissures for 5 years now Mandy Jane, this last episode has lasted a solid 3 months and I can't get on top of the pain. I'm taking 2000mg gabapentin a day and it's hardly a dent in it. I'm drinking 3 litres of water, taking granuals for extra slippery fibre, dulcoease, sitting in hottish water several times a day, everything I'm supposed to be doing. I just can't take anymore so I'm going for surgery. I know it will be a bumpy ride after, but nothing can be as bad as this.

    Valium sounds like an excellent idea, for me! A dose of reality is what the practice needs, it really is living in a bubble here, it could be the 1950's. There are people in my village who have never left the valley, I'm not kidding. I lived in Birmingham , and from Wolverhampton, and these people are clueless.

  • I think back when I knew this man surgery was the standard treatment. Valium is actually really good for pain as the usual response to pain is to tense the muscles around the painful area. Valium is a muscle relaxant and once the muscles relax the pain lessens. Morphine does the same but apparently does reduce pain as well but I am not sure having taken it after surgery. I was taught to relax when in pain by my mother and my reflex action when in pain has gone. I had a small bone set without any anestetic on holiday in Turkey once. The surgeon was really reluctant to do it as he thought I would not stay still and that I would make sudden movements to avoid the pain but I was utterly relaxed and it was fine. I think mindfullness teaches similar skill of focusing on the pain and not trying to avoid it which would make sense as my mother was a buddist.

    Most of the problems we have in life are about fear and threat rather than reality. The worst part of any battle is the fear before hand, i thnk experianced soldiers would back me up. It is the same with out bodies the fear of pain is worse than the reality and concurantly the fear and avoidance of pain makes it much worse. Bloody hell I am long winded. Relax your ass lady and valium might help if you can get it.

  • I'll PM you Mandyjane.

  • I don't blame you being angry mandyjane and I would say that you have every right to send some sort of complaint to the doctor if only to release some of that anger that would do you no good to bottle up. I would however suggest that you take a few deep breaths first and write a much simpler and less 'shouty letter. Really just to point out how his attitude to you was so insulting and how upset you feel. Just keep it simple. I find that usually works best. It's possible he was having a bad day and maybe his wife had said that she would leave him if he didn't shape up! Who knows?

  • Thanks Polymnia. I am now written a less shouty letter and will take it to show my usual GP on Tuesday. It is very forgiving of you to say perhaps he was having a bad day but he is well paid, could have gone off sick, could have said sorry I am having a bad day but he chose to take his problems out on me. I suspect his problems are a bad attitude towards women,an over inflated ego and a lack of self disipline. I think he enjoyed that consultation. I think he is a bully.

    What I have said to my GP is that I felt a little bit bullied and that I felt disrespected and that I thought the way he questioned my children lacked sensitivity. I said at the end that I did not want to make an offical complaint but felt better for telling someone and thought the practice needed to be aware there may be issues about the way he speaks to especailly women.

    Bullying is enjoyable, it makes you fell powerful. I had to learn to do it from an early age to protect myself. I was not a school play ground bully but I had to learn to manage some very difficault people as a teenager. I remmeber I was being bullyed and called names by another girl in school when I was about 7 or 8 and my mum arranged with the headmaster that I was allowed to take a pin into school. I was told by my mum that I was to stick the pin in her and tell her it was an injection to stop her calling me names. I was told to only do it once and to not enjoy myself. the headmaster sent the girl over to me to say hello. He stood well back. She said something nasty and out came the pin. Oh the thrill of sticking that pin in and I did it several times before the headmaster got it of me. I think I stuck it in him too to try and stop him taking it. I can see how someone could get addicted to bullying and power especailly if they get away with it and never have to face the consequences.

  • Ha ha. Yes you are quite right it was bullying and that Doctor does really need pulling up over it. I have always found that a simple controlled complaint gets taken more seriously so well done for standing up for yourself!

  • If you feel it's not resolved try writing to your local 'healthwatch' :D

  • Thanks spare ribs. It feels resolved in my heart now I have written a letter to show my usual GP. I will look to see if there is a health watch in Bristol to see if they can help with my child.

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