Episodes of crying.

[lucylocks]

Hi

I posted my recent thyroid blood results a couple of days ago.

I take 1.5 grains W.P. Thyroid one grain am. and half grain early evening.

Bloods taken 12 hours after last NDT dose and fasted.

TSH 1.06 range 0.27 - 4.20

Total T4 47.9 range 59.0 - 154.0

FT4 9.74 range 12.00 - 22.00

FT3 3.58 range 3.10 - 6.80 level was 5.2 range 3.8 - 6.0 in February, 17 hours after NDT,

TPO antibodies 95.77 range 0 - 115.00

TPA antibodies 32.02 range 0 - 34 this has risen from 27.5 in August 2015

Today I keep getting episodes were I just burst into tears for no reason.

I have some more blood tests booked at the Doctors in the morning as I have what I thought was a lingering virus that I cannot shake off, but one member said I may be suffering a hashi's attack.

I am going to wait for the results of these tests before decided what to do about my treatment.

I just don't know why I feel so weepy, is it because my FT3 is low?

[greygoose]

Probably. Being weepy and bursting into tears at nothing, are hypo symptoms. You could probably do with an increase in dose.

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

Thank you greygoose,

not sure what to do about my meds. I don't think NDT. is suiting me.

Not sure whether to go back to levo. plus T3 or T3 only.

[greygoose in reply to lucylocks]

How long have you been taking it?

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

15 months now,

I had a hard time raising it. Every time I tried I had to reduce again, It took 5 months to get to 1.5 grains and I could get above this as I got pals. and high B.P. having said that my T3 was at a good level then 5.2 now it has dropped to 3.58 for some reason.

[greygoose in reply to lucylocks]

How are your vit D etc.? They all need to be optimal for NDT to work properly.

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

Hi

February 2017

Vit D 70 , but I do supplement 3000iu. daily,

B12 is 627 again I supplement.

Folate 12.3 I take a B-Complex

Ferritn 84

I also take Vit C. and a probiotic.

[greygoose in reply to lucylocks]

Do you take vit K2-MK7 and magnesium with the vit D?

Anyway, you could either try going onto T4+T3, or you could try a different NDT. Most people have to try several before they find one that suits them.

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

I have just bought K2-MK7 combined with Vit D, not started them yet, just using up my Vit D spray.

I use a magnesium oil spray sometimes but have just ordered some tablet.

I got the W.P. Thyroid because they have the least fillers so thought they would be best.

[greygoose in reply to lucylocks]

Yes, but we're funny creatures. It's not always the thing we think is going to help us, that does. It's all trial and error.

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

I was O.K. on levo. until my Doctor reduce the dose. I did the 24 urine test through Genova and it showed I was converting reasonably well but I was not taking enough it. Doctor would not increase so this is when I went over to NDT.

With hindsight I wish I had kept on the levo. and added some T3 to it.

[greygoose in reply to lucylocks]

Or just increased the dose yourself. We hear this story so many times! They honestly have no idea what they're doing!

In that case, give it a go. What have you got to lose?

[lucylocks in reply to greygoose]

Thanks,

You are right they have no idea.

[jgelliss in reply to greygoose]

greygoose ,you are so VERY RIGHT . I think most Endo/Dr "DON"T GET IT" . We get it thyroid patients. We have to educate Endo/Dr and public how we want to be treated . Some Dr who think out of the box will respect patients and allow the patient to be involved with their own care . We have to unite together and change the medical way of treating us . ONLY then will be treated the way we need to be treated .

[greygoose in reply to jgelliss]

[LynneG in reply to lucylocks]

Your Ferritin is a good storage level at 84. Mine is shockingly high at 140 - I was thinking of blood donation to bring down. It creeps up following menopause. That is why women when no longer bleed are at the same heart attack risk as men. You could ask your GP for a total iron panel which includes serum iron and Transferrin saturation percentage. My test showed low serum iron (bottom of the range) and shockingly low Transferrin saturation at 18 (another heart attack risk if 20 or below/high not good either google studies completed in Ireland Dec 2016 - ideal should be 30) Just pointing out that stored iron that is ferritin does not always translate to a good level of accessible iron in blood. And ferritin over 100 is creeping up to dangerous. Chris Kresser (functional nutritional clinician advises 65 - 75)

Vit B12, Nutritional Psychiatrist (SPECT scan guy) states that for good functional brain health need to be top of the class, so top of the range. Diff countries diff ranges. Japan min before treatment is 500

range 500 - 1300 (Japanese have low cardiac and Alzheimers)

Vit D - receptors on every cell, crucial it is high if ill. Top of the range to be healthy 125. if have any condition above that 130 - 150. Cancer 170-180 or higher. Best obtained from sun, but with our weather. Mine was last 115 and I supplement 4000iu per day because want to get up to at least 130. Posted you tube video Ivor Cummins on vit D on this post.

Removing Gluten is a good idea re Zonulin and tight junctions of intestinal wall in everyone. So if you think Thyroid /gluten connection re leaky gut removal great, not easy though, I will post again a good site re food list should avoid.

Probiotics - listened last wk to microbiome cutting edge expert interviews. Specific gut bacteria signal re growth of intestinal wall cells, proviso, if you have those paticular beneficial bacteria. Plantarum is one, and other important ones bacillus delbruekl, rhamnosus, , helviticus were mentioned. I checked mine and others mentioned like infantis also included So Bio-kult 14 strain from Red 23 website a good probiotic as well as soil based probiotics (prescript assist) but does not include those mentioned as they are a different type of species.

youtube.com/watch?v=v3pK0dc...(Not working as expected?)

[LynneG in reply to LynneG]

List of food/ ingredients from gluten free society.org

glutenfreesociety.org/guide...

[lucylocks in reply to LynneG]

Many thanks for all the information and the links.

I will watch the Vit D. one this evening and take a good look at gluten free foods.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

[LynneG in reply to lucylocks]

It is a pleasure if any of it helps. I have received so much help from others

[JS33 in reply to lucylocks]

Many people , including me , would not think T3 5.2 was high enough on NDT.

[lucylocks in reply to JS33]

Thank you,

T3 was good at 5,2 but has now dropped to 3.58 but I don't understand why.

[JS33 in reply to lucylocks]

It might be wise to wait till you get up to somewhere near a decent dose before deciding if it suits you, as I don't think your labs suggest you are there yet.

[jgelliss in reply to lucylocks]

I found out the hard way lucylocks that to much T3 is not good . My raising my T4 to optimal levels with small amount of T3 added to the mix was great . Also check out your adrenals they might need some support . I don't know if your on some nutrients like vit. "D", B-12, Iron (please run labs first with full iron panel and Ferritin) Selenium is great for conversion and to help protect from cancer (not more than 200mcg or eat 2-3 brazil nuts .More of a good thing is not necessary better . Trust your gut feelings if something doesn't feel right then it's not . And also one size fits all does not work .

Wishing you success as you proceed .

[lucylocks in reply to jgelliss]

Many thanks jgellis,

I do supplement Vit D B12 B-Complex Vit C, probiotic, magnesium spray.

I shall get some selenium.

Just had more blood tests at Doctors, when I get the results I will reconsider my thyroid meds.

Good to hear you have found the right mix of T4/T3.

Best wishes.

[jgelliss in reply to lucylocks]

Lucy , we are work in progress . Being that I had my thyroids removed it's always trying to keep a balance . But balance is what is needed . Balance for everyone is something else . But over doing T3 might come with a price only to cause more problems and it's not what we need .

[shaws]

Both FT4 and FT3 are low, so that will make you feel not too good. If we don't feel well we are apt to get weepy as we don't quite know what's going on with our health.

You split your dose, so is your stomach empty when you take second dose? The following link will show that this doctor, who was also an Adviser to Thyroiduk.org, prescribed one daily dose.

Go to the date January 30, 2002 on the following link:

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[lucylocks in reply to shaws]

Thanks shaws.

I will read the link.

Can NDT be taken in one dose?

[shaws in reply to lucylocks]

Yes it can be taken in one dose. The benefit is that you don't have to remember when next dose is due or that you're stomach is empty. So, as we have to take it for a lifetime, you don't want to be dependent upon different times during 24 hours of each day.

You have to take it with one full glass of water and wait about an hour before eating. If you split you have to wait 2 or more hours, depending on what you've eaten. We usually have slow digestion as well.

[lucylocks in reply to shaws]

Thank you,

I will try the once a day dose.

I thought of doing that before but thought the T3 in one go maybe too much.

[shaws in reply to lucylocks]

Dr Lowe took 150mcg of T3 once daily (in the middle of the night) so just shows how your body accepts what it needs. If we feel overdosed we reduce back slightly.

[lucylocks in reply to shaws]

Thank you shaws.

[jgelliss in reply to lucylocks]

lucy to get the most and best benefits of T3/NDT the best is to split . So you don't get over energized and then crash later in the day . Plus you run labs 7-8 hours after your last dose or just before your next dose to get the trough (low point) . Some split 2/3/4/x/day . The best that works for you . Taking a large dose of T3/NDT can put a lot of stress on the adrenals and cause other problems .

[lucylocks in reply to jgelliss]

Thank you.

[Stourie in reply to lucylocks]

I take my t3 all at once at bedtime 80mcg and sleep all night. I don't get energised and last till the next night for my next dose. I have started adding 50 of levo and still sleep all night.

Jo xx

[lucylocks in reply to Stourie]

Thank you, good to hear it is working for you.

Do you feel better adding in the levo?

[Stourie in reply to lucylocks]

I really don't know yet. I found an old packet in the cupboard and thought that I'd use them up just to see. I am hoping for a change of some sort. Even if I don't feel any better at least I will know that levo is doing nothing for me. I have only had 3 of them so far.

Jo xx

[lucylocks in reply to Stourie]

Is the T3 working?

[Stourie in reply to lucylocks]

Definately yes. When I started taking them I felt a difference in a couple of days. My head was much clearer and I just felt my whole body was alive, if that makes sense. Just waiting now to see what the t4 is going to do to me.

Jo xx

[wano]

I've been on Armour for 4 days now and I'm having hypothyroid symptoms. They seem to be on and off and perhaps that's due to just starting the new formulation.

I was on levo and then levo and T3 for the past few months. I've just tried raising my iron to 400 per day instead of 200 per day because it was very low.

I'm not sure what combinations work/will work. I guess it's trial and error.

I take 1.5 grains starting dose (equivalent to my levo and T3 the doctor says). I split it 1 grain in the morning and half a grain at 1pm.

I find when I feel dizzy and tired and emotional that keeping to a gluten-free diet helps.

[lucylocks in reply to wano]

Thank you wano,

I think going gluten free is the next thing I need to do.

I was always told I did not have hashi's because my antibodies are in range so did not think I needed to cut out gluten, but the TPA have risen to nearly top of range so will try going gluten free.

How did you feel on levo/T3 combination? I guess it did not work for you if you have now changed Armour.

[wano in reply to lucylocks]

I decided to switch to NDT because of other strange things happening that the doctors couldn't explain. I developed optic nerve damage in one eye without a clear reason (and no family history) and I have swellings in the back of my head (hard to explain) that raise up and then disappear on a mostly daily basis. Levo and Levo/T3 combo didn't take these issues away. Adding T3 did significantly raise my energy levels, but I have read so many responses that synthetic thyroid replacement can cause harm in the long run (re. with the unseen absence of overall support to the thyroid). I'll see how Armour works for me for a few months. As to raising iron levels (I started with levels at 19, with the lowest level of 15 in the range), the doctors always say I'm fine for a woman in her menstruating years. Perhaps my consistent low iron has been a root cause? Or complex allergies early in life? I've no idea. I even went to costly lengths to see herbalist and Ayurvedic specialists hoping they could help me find what started the thyroid issues (which began at age 35).

The thyroid antibody test, I've found, is very difficult to have re-tested. Once the doctors think/know you have Hashimoto's, they don't seem to care to recheck levels. Terrible, as if they were high for me I could at least try some alternative approaches.

Good luck to you.

[cwill]

Just a thought but does your B complex contain biotin? It should be stopped before testing so as not to influence the test. Just reading about it myself as thought that I wasn't on it. Doh!

[lucylocks in reply to cwill]

Hi

yes it does 80ug.

How does it influence the test?

[cwill in reply to lucylocks]

I think from my quick search and look around here this am that it can raise results. We are advised to stop it days before the test. I am certainly no expert but it does seem that there a quite a few ways to scupper the test.

[lucylocks in reply to cwill]

Mine levels have dropped so I don't think the biotin has had any effect.

[jgelliss in reply to cwill]

By the way Iron needs to be stopped 5-7 days prior to labs too .

[lucylocks in reply to jgelliss]

Hi

I wasn't taking iron when I last had ferritin tested in February and it came back at 84.

I now take one chelated iron 27mg. daily.

[lucylocks]

Yes I am going to increase, thank you.

[LynneG]

Just a thought, I am not medicated and have a climbing TSH last at 3.53 so getting symptoms of hypo and cry very easily. Tears fill my eyes when I hear of /think of something emotional. And full blown crying episodes.

To add to comment, I listened to the Thyroid Summit of experts talking. I do not as with all normal ranges, understand why they have the antibodies normal range set at what it is. I heard experts and Isabella Wentz state that there is no need for antibodies to be higher than 1. That 1 is enough for regulating apoptosis /cell death (obviously our cells need to die and be killed off so that we can replace with healthy new ones) So if higher than one, you're antibodies are attacking and killing off your thyroid. Mine are within normal range but a lot higher than 1, and I am looking into what can bring antibodies down. If my memory wasn't so bad with I presume thyroid and B12 deficiencies, I might have been able to quote some strategies - hey ho.

[lucylocks in reply to LynneG]

Sorry to hear you feel bad, it is a horrible feeling.

That is interesting about the antibodies. I know to reduce them it is advise to cut out gluten and also take a selenium supplement, this is now what I am going to do to reduce mine, you could try it to see if it helps you.

I hope you start to feel better soon.

[LynneG in reply to lucylocks]

Thanks, I have symptoms, such as burning mouth, hands feet, noise in my ears, breatless if climbing stairs/hills yet have walked dogs for years, heart thumping when lie down all started Jan this year, have been watching TSH so know I am hypo and B12 an issue too and iron all related. Everything dependant on everything else - why wouldn't it be, we are one body. Just that GP's and Consultants don't see it like that as Consultant's particularly specialize.

Thanks for your help but have been off gluten for 6 years, very careful - would never eat it again

My mum had coeliac - she was gluten free for 20+yrs from age 50, diagnosed eventually (NHS tests so poor) when lying dying of malnutrition in hosp, she recovered and was fine and then for some unknown reason the hosp sent for her and gave her an endoscopy and said there was no trace of damage. (well of course there wasn't - she had healed over the 24 years) The saints in white coats with stethoscopes told her to resume a diet with lots of gluten,look for digestive symptoms for 3 months and then resume a normal diet. Why! Goodness knows, she had been fine on the GF diet. She of course believed every word they uttered. It took many years for the digestive issues to show up. But bad migraines, vertigo became her everyday life and she eventually lost her autonomic sequencing skills in her frontal lobe, then came dementia and pancreatic cancer. All now known to be closely related to Gluten sensitivity if ignored.

I also have a few organic Brazil nuts for selenium every day. and lots of other supplements. I will have to research what else brings down antibodies, I know I have read it somewhere

[lucylocks]

So sorry to hear about your Mum, that is so sad.

May be if you had not been gluten free your antibodies may have been higher.

I hope you find something else to bring them down.

[Gingergirl1948]

Thinking of you. Exhale slowly and be kind to your. Self

[lucylocks in reply to Gingergirl1948]

Thank you.