Porridge with semi-skimmed organic milk. How long should one wait before eating as it contains calcium from milk, when taking levothyroxine.

[Peony88]

I take levothyroxine in the morning and after an hour I have tea with milk and have fruit, bananna or oranges for breakfast. Before I went on levothyroxine I used to have porridge with milk and I miss it. My latest blood serum cholesterol test is highest its ever been at 5.4, serum HDL cholesterol level is 1.6 and Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio is 3.38. Oats assist in lowering cholesterol, including healthy diet and excercise. Doctor not worried said to recheck in 12 months time. Any advice appreciated. Thank you all.

[Clutter]

Peony88,

For maximum absorption Levothyroxine should be taken with water 1 hour before, or 2 hours after, food and drink, 2 hours away from other medication and supplements, and 4 hours away from calcium, iron, vitamin D supplements and oestrogen.

You take tea with milk after Levothyroxine so there's no reason you shouldn't have porridge with milk too.

[Peony88 in reply to Clutter]

Thank you Clutter, I will bear that in mind.

[greygoose]

Well, first of all, your cholesterol level has little to do with what you eat. It's made in the liver. And, it's made in the liver because it's an essential nutrient. Yours is higher than usual because you have low T3 (you're hypo). It will come down as your FT3 level rises. So, why not have full cream milk and enjoy. Your body needs that fat, anyway.

I don't imagine you have lashings of milk on your porridge, do you? So, waiting an hour should be sufficient. Besides, the most important thing is consistency. If you always have the same thing for breakfast, same amount, your dose of levo can be adjusted to compensate.

[Peony88 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you greygoose, I love a creamy porridge, most probably use about 300 mls of milk. Your right enjoy the fat.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

High cholesterol is linked to being hypo, your TSH was too high at last test.

Have you tried taking Levo at bedtime? You need to not eat or drink anything other than water for at least 2 hours before (good excuse to avoid night time snacks)

There is research that suggests Levo may be more effective taken at night. Lots of us prefer it, as more convenient as well as seems to work better, but some try it & find it doesn't suit them

verywell.com/should-i-take-...

[Peony88 in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi SlowDragon, thank you, I did try taking it at night but it kept me awake. I am pleased for you and the people who can take it at night.

[Raventhorpe]

Hi poeny88 I have porridge for breakfast every morning haven't noticed it's made any difference in the amount of levo I take as long as you leave 1 hour before you eat it should be ok.

[Peony88 in reply to Raventhorpe]

Hi Raventhorpe, thank you, I will.

[MollyStark]

Hi Peony88, if you haven't already tried it, I can recommend making porridge with rice milk. It's an excellent alternative to dairy.

[Peony88 in reply to MollyStark]

Hi MollyStark, thank you, I will try that out.

[Mary-intussuception]

Hi Peony88.

I take my Levothyroxine early morning too. I also eat banana and 1 or 2 mugs decaf tea for breakfast, then a while later I'd have 2 Shredded Wheat with semi-skimmed milk.

The first time my cholesterol test was ever taken it was 5.4 which was considered OK back then.

2 years ago I switched from S.Wheat to porridge made with semi-skimmed milk every day.

The previous month in A&E my cholesterol blood test was much higher. I wasn't told. I was discharged to be seen as outpatient but the appointment didn't come through for eleven months. The Medical Consult said he was starting me on statins as my cholesterol test was high - but did a repeat test first. It was now 4, lower than it's ever been since testing. So no statins (thankfully).

That was after 10 months on daily porridge.

I sometimes add a little fine oat bran.

X

[Peony88 in reply to Mary-intussuception]

Hi Mary-Intussuception, thank you for your experience and how wonderful the outcome was and you were able to avoided statins, happy for you. Do you not miss porridge for breakfast?

[Mary-intussuception in reply to Peony88]

Hi Peony88.

Only just seen your reply.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, but I love my porridge! Enjoy it every morning! I also add a little fine oat bran.

It was the porridge (I believe) that brought my cholesterol down.

I've been eating it every morning since February 2015.

Was in A&E in the January 2015 with chest pain. No one told me my Cholesterol was high. In fact the Medical Registrar said my bloods were OK. They were very busy, but that's no excuse. However I was very happy with the treatments the first Dr had given me.

It was only when I saw the Medical Consult in my 1st outpatients appointment in November he told me it was high. After testing again it was down to 4.

I've never taken statins.

So please get back on the porridge!

X

[greygoose in reply to Mary-intussuception]

Even if he prescribes statins, you don't have to take them. In fact, best not to! The cholesterol won't kill you. The statins might.

[helvella Administrator in reply to greygoose]

Please don't get them dispensed - even if they are prescribed.

For a start, that gives profit to the companies which are already pushing them at us. Also, it takes NHS funds to pay for the dispensing process and the medicone, funds which could be better used elsewhere.

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

Yes, that was what I meant. Didn't express myself very well - don't collect them and don't take them!

[helvella Administrator in reply to greygoose]

I knew you meant that but thought it might need emphasis!

[greygoose in reply to helvella]

Indeed.

[Peony88 in reply to helvella]

Thank you helvella. I won't.

[Peony88 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you greygoose. I will not take statins. Like to reduce cholesterol through diet and excercise.

[greygoose in reply to Peony88]

You don't need to reduce it. It's not a problem. Your body needs it. It doesn't cause strokes or heart attacks, that's a load of rubbish. Besides, as l said, it will reduce as your T3 level increases. It has little to do with your diet.

And go easy with the exercise until you are optimal. By which time you will find your cholesterole will be back in range again.

[smwdorset in reply to greygoose]

Hi I am panicking grey goose as I’ve just been put on the maximum dose of statins - 80 mg of atovastatin after my bad cholesterol doubled in six months following starting medication for osteoporosis . This has apparently caused atherosclerosis in my carotid artery discovered when I was given a Ct angiogram following a dreadful headache

Why do you say the statins will kill me

Ps also on Levo following hemithyroidectomy ( for suspected thyroid cancer that turned out to be bowel cancer ) and rivaroxaban for Paroxysmal AF

[greygoose in reply to smwdorset]

I didn't say they would. I said they could. Why? Because they artificially reduce cholesterol to a dangerous level without addressing the root cause.

The root cause is not diet, nor statin-deficiency, it's more than likely low T3 - too low for you as an individual. That in itself can cause a heart attack.

As for the cholesterol, high levels do not cause heart attacks or strokes. Cholesterol is an intrinsic part of the make-up of your body. Your brain is made of it, your cell walls are made of it and your sex hormones are made of it - low cholesterol means low progesterone, testosterone, estrogen, which will also cause problems.

And cholesterol is nature's sticking plaster. When arteries are damaged by inflammation (low T3 can cause inflammation) the cholesterol comes along and covers up the damage like a sticking plaster, until it heals. Once it heals, the cholesterol is absorbed into the cell walls. It's inflammation that causes heart attacks, not cholesterol.

However, when T3 is low, the body cannot process cholesterol correctly and it tends to build up in the arteries. Raise the T3 level and the cholesterol with melt away and go about its business or repairing and regenerating - you can't build new cells without it.

What's more, when they test your 'cholesterol', it's not the cholesterol itself they they measure. It's the protein carriers: HDL and LDL. These carriers that they measure cannot be either good or bad, they just are. 'Good' and 'Bad' cholesterol is a myth perpitrated by Big Pharma to scare people into taking statins. Cholesterol is just cholesterol and it's all good. Your body needs it.

So, have you had your FT3 tested? I would think that that is what needs doing next. And if it's low, tell your doctor where to put his statins and to either give you an increase in levo, or some T3. Because that's what you really need.

[smwdorset in reply to greygoose]

OK I understand your concerns. I am having my T3 tested again by medichecks on Monday . But I have had fairly regular Medichecks tests over the four years since I had half my thyroid removed and was put on 50mcgpd. My GP is v reluctant to increase the dose because I already have AF and arrythmia.

All medichecks tests done first thing am fasting and pre Levo

May 2019- 4.7 T3, 17 T4 and 4.9 TSH ( noone gave me levo after the op but ( started getting symptoms so insisted on being treated and felt fine for the next 4 years or so))

june 22 - 4.1 (18.5 T4)(1.6 TSH)

nov 22 - 4.3 (19.4, 1.73)

Nov 23 3.6 (20.7,1.4)

Latest NHS test Feb 2024 - TSH2.11 . T4 22.9 - I was concerned about increase in TSH even though T4 looks OK hence booked the medichecks test

Between these earlier medichecks tests I had NHS T4 and TSH which all show similar levels.

My vitamin D dropped v low Nov 2023 and I was put on a 3000 unit pd dose reducing to 1000 after 3 months

My B vitamins have been fine until recently then I was asked to take B12 supplements for a short time.

Been put on calcium supplements by osteoporosis consultant - which could explain increase in TSH as wasnt told to separate them from Levo for 4 hours - so was taking them with breakfast just an hour after Levo. Also was put on PPIs in the morning 30 mins after Levo which might also be interfering with the Levo.

I'll post my medichecks results when I get them

[greygoose in reply to smwdorset]

Just because your T4 is 'fine' doesn't mean your T3 is. You could be a poor converter. And a rising TSH suggests that you are.

PPIs most definitely will mess with your levo. And the question is: do you even need them. Most hypos have low stomach acid anyway, and PPIs will make that worse. You need to raise your stomach acid, not lower it even further.

In all the Medichecks results you've given above, the FT3 is much too low, you need it at least over mid-range and probably a lot higher.

My GP is v reluctant to increase the dose because I already have AF and arrythmia.

Your GP doesn't know a whole lot about how this works, does he. Increasing your dose can only do your heart good. No-one is suggesting that he raises it enough to take the FT3 over the top of the range - but as he doesn't test the FT3 he wouldn't even know about that, would he. However hearts need an awful lot of T3, so your heart problems are more than likely also due to your low T3.

Been put on calcium supplements by osteoporosis consultant

Do you have osteoporosis? Calcium is neither a treatment, preventative nor a cure for osteoporosis. In fact, it could make things worse by making bones brittle. And calcium supplements are a very bad thing to take because they are badly absorbed and tend to build up in the arteries. So, your heart problems could also be partly due to calcium supplements. Have you had your calcium tested and found it low?

My vitamin D dropped v low Nov 2023 and I was put on a 3000 unit pd dose reducing to 1000 after 3 months

If that's low that will have a negative effect on your bones. And, taking vit D and magnesium will increase your absorption of calcium from food - which is much more easily absorbed. But, to make sure the extra calcium goes into the teeth and bones you need to take vit K2-MD7.

But taking vit D without magnesium won't do anything for you. They work together so need to be taken together.

Vit D and magnesium are far more important for bone health than calcium. Especially once you're an adult.

My B vitamins have been fine until recently then I was asked to take B12 supplements for a short time.

Just taking one B vit in isolation won't do anything for you, either. The Bs all work togther and need to be balanced. So, if you're taking B12 - and it should be sublingual methylcobalamin, not cyanocobalamin - you should also be taking a B complex.

Taking it for a short time is unlikely to do you any good because the level will just drop again - especially when taking PPIs. Even if you stop the B12 itself, you should continue with the B complex as a maintenance dose.

In short, doctors know nothing about nutrients. Always, always check on here when told to take anything, to make sure it's the right thing to take, and how to take it.

[smwdorset in reply to greygoose]

Thats really interesting - I am afraid GPs aren't specialists are they? But medichecks said my results were fine and well within normal range . Where does it say T3 should be well above mid range? I would need some evidence to persuade the GP to increase the dose . Is there a NICE guideline or equivalent I could show him?

And re calcium I am on specialist osteoporosis medication (Evenity) which ironically leaches calcium from the bones and yes my levels dropped to below normal so the osteoporosis consultant put me on both the calcium and the vitamin D .

And my heart arythmmia specialist put me on rivaroxaban and the PPIs. The problem is that the specialists dont talk to each other and each leaves the GP to try to sort out the resulting mess?

I don't actually have a thyroid consultant - do they exist? I wasn't referred to one when I had suspected thyroid cancer - only to a surgeon and noone saw me post op about taking supplements. I got a medicheck test and insisted on getting a prescription because I felt so tired all the time but as I say my GP wont increase it.. Maybe I should go to see a thyroid specialist who could take a holistic view of everything and tell my GP and other specialists what I need from a thyroid perspective? Is there a list of these anywhere. I know you cant make recommendations on the public forum but does Thyroid UK have a list ?

I didnt know about vitamin K2-MD7 - what is the recommended dose of that or does it vary by individual? Do you need that even to absorb calcium from food?

And what is a B complex? I am happy to take a maintenance dose - is it called B complex and what is the dose? I didn't know about different types of B12 - noone told me that. And should I be on magnesium too - there's loads of different types in my pharmacy. How on earth is one supposed to know what to take in combination?

Thanks you so much for your help. I am really grateful.

If you can point me to evidence about what my TF results should be and any other info about all these vitamins and where I can find a thyroid consultant that would be great. (I am prepared to pay to see someone privately for a consultation

[greygoose in reply to smwdorset]

I'm afraid I don't have time to answer in detail right now, gotta run! But I'll try and get back to you later. If I don't, give me another shout! lol

[greygoose in reply to smwdorset]

I am afraid GPs aren't specialists are they?

No, they aren't. But neither are endos. It's very, very difficult to find anyone who specialises in thyroid.

But medichecks said my results were fine and well within normal range .

Medichecks aren't specialists either. The doctors making the comments are only common or garden GPs with the usual GP lack of thyroid knowledge. Really not worth have those comments.

Where does it say T3 should be well above mid range?

I'm not sure I know of anywhere it might be written. But we do know that euthyroid - i.e. without any thyroid problems - is an FT3 around mid-range. There's a graph around somewhere but I don't have a link for it off hand. And, from years of reading other people's blood test results, and reading about their symptoms etc. it becomes clear that just getting people back to euthyroid levels is not sufficient. Hypos need higher FT3, sometimes higher FT4, and therefore lower TSH. I think doctor Toft says something like that in his writings. Have a google and see if you can find him.

Is there a NICE guideline or equivalent I could show him?

NICE guidelines do talk about suppressed TSH and how it is the doctor's responsibility to use his judgement about some people needing it low.

The first paragraph in the NICE (NHS) Thyroid Disease,

Assessment and Management guidelines says :

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng145

"Your responsibility

The recommendations in this guideline represent the view of NICE, arrived at after careful consideration of the evidence available. When exercising their judgement, professionals and practitioners are expected to take this guideline fully into account, alongside the individual needs, preferences and values of their patients or the people using their service. It is not mandatory to apply the recommendations, and the guideline does not override the responsibility to make decisions appropriate to the circumstances of the individual, in consultation with them and their families and carers or guardian. "

Don't know if that's any help.

osteoporosis consultant put me on both the calcium and the vitamin D .

Well, that's a bit belt and braces. But I do hope he is testing your calcium regularly to make sure you're not over-dosing. Especially as you will have difficulty absorbing it at a cellular level.

The problem is that the specialists dont talk to each other and each leaves the GP to try to sort out the resulting mess?

Something he's really ill-equipped to do! But it's not just that they don't talk to each other. They don't seem to have any understanding of how the other bits of the body work and how everything is connected. We are not a collection of spare parts, like a car or a washing machine. And we shouldn't be treated as such. Trouble is, so-called Holistic doctors don't seem to have much clue, either! One really has to wonder what they actually do learn in med school!

I don't actually have a thyroid consultant - do they exist?

I only know of two: one in France and one in Belgium. Where are you?

I got a medicheck test and insisted on getting a prescription because I felt so tired all the time but as I say my GP wont increase it..

Typical! Not a clue how it all works. I suppose he believes that a suppressed TSH causes heart attacks! 🤣 Which is a bit like believing in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy. Well, you could buy your own and increase it yourself.

Is there a list of these anywhere. I know you cant make recommendations on the public forum but does Thyroid UK have a list ?

Are you in the UK? I don't know anybody in the UK, I live in France. UK has a list of possibly T3 friendly doctors, recommended by members - not TUK themselves. But, one think I've observed over the years is that just because one person gets on well with a doctor and finds him/her helpful, doesn't mean that the next person is going to get the same reaction from that doctor. The only two doctors I've ever got along with and been able to work with, other people have loathed! lol I think it's very much a question of personalities or chemistry, call it what you will. But, the list is worth a try.

Send an email to this address:

[e-mail]

To ask for it.

To be continued...

[greygoose in reply to smwdorset]

Didn't want to get cut off in mid flow...

I didnt know about vitamin K2-MD7 - what is the recommended dose of that or does it vary by individual? Do you need that even to absorb calcium from food?

It's vit K2-MK7. It doesn't vary by individual, it varies with your dose of vit D. And I'm sorry, but I can't remember the details, but you can by vit D supplements with the K2 added.

Normal amounts of calcium no, but taking vit D increases the amount you get from food.

Oh! I just thought, are you on blood thinners? Because if you are, it might not be a good idea to take K2 - I know you mustn't take K1, but there doesn't seem to be an clear-cut advice on K2. Might be a good idea to do your own research on that.

And what is a B complex?

It's one little pill with all 9 B vits in it. Thorne do a good one called Basic B. Also Igennus and Pink Tribe. It will tell you on the bottle how much to take.

And should I be on magnesium too - there's loads of different types in my pharmacy.

You most certainly should, yes, especially as your taking vit D. They work together and taking vit D without the magnesium will deplete your magnesium. Which one you take depends on what you want it to do:

Magnesium citrate: mild laxative, best for constipation.

Magnesium taurate: best for cardiovascular health.

Magnesium malate: best for fatigue – helps make ATP energy.

Magnesium glycinate: most bioavailable and absorbable form, non-laxative.

Magnesium chloride: for detoxing the cells and tissues, aids kidney function and can boost a sluggish metabolism.

Magnesium carbonate: good for people suffering with indigestion and acid reflux as it contains antacid properties.

Worst forms of magnesium: oxide, sulphate, glutamate and aspartate.

And now, I'm going to have my dinner!