My mum is very depressed and has body spasms all over her body, very hot or very cold.

[kirstiehurley]

My Mums is suffering so much, She was Diagnosed with Hypothyroidism over 40 years ago, she is now 72, after being put on antidepresents firstly sigh.. and almost slipping into a coma. she has been taking 100mg Thyroxin for all this time and about 7 years ago was very unwell, couldnt eat, again GP would not do anything said her levels were normal. After a bit of a fight was then diagnosed with pernicious anemia and now has an injection every 3 months, felt better instantly. Then all has been fine until 3 years ago she felt well but lost lots of weight. From size 14 to size 8, she wont say how much actual weight she has lost. Now she is very depressed, constipated has terrible body spasms all over her body and pretty much sat in a chair with hardly anything to say, says she's given up. she seems to be going down hill every day, has no good days now, normaly very bubbly chearful mum. The gp says her TSH 5. something, she cant remember what the Doctor said to her, is normal range. She is taking 100mg Thyroxin. They have put her on antidepresents for 3 weeks now. No improvement in her mood what so ever. I suggested going to a private Endocrynologist and I was so dissapointed. He just looked at TSH level and said all looked ok to him. When she asked about her depresion and body spasms he said nothing to do with her thyroid he thinks. He suggested a calcium test and thats it. She is waiting for her GP to arange this. Im so upset for her and desperate to help. I keep asking her to get a printout of her results and she keeps forgetting.or doesnt want to demand anything im not sure. Im going to go with her on her next GP visit and not sure what to ask them to do. Im sure this has something to do with her Thyroid Any advice for a very worried Daughter. Thank you

[Ruthi]

TSH of 5 (if it is 5 and not .05) is not consistent with weight loss or muscle spasms although almost anything is possible with thyroid disease.

Ask for a printout of her actual results (she may need to make the request, herself) then my advice is to sit on their doorstep till they do something. Sudden unintentional weight loss is a red flag symptom. Don't let them fob you/her off. If you can see a different doctor then do that too.

[Barrister]

Depression is a symptom of an underactive thyroid and the fact that your Mother's TSH is 5 or higher is certainly a sign that she is very undermedicated. The majority of people feel better with a TSH of 1 or below. Your Mother needs to have TSH, Free T4, Free T3, just to start with. Someone will be along soon, I'm sure, who will tell you what other blood tests she will need. To enable our bodies to utilise thyroid hormones, we need to have good levels of vitamins and minerals. Also she needs vitamin D testing as the majority of people need to supplement this in the UK in wi tear as we don't get enough sun.

Just a thought, is your Mum's weight loss connected to a loss of appetite or is she eating normally?

Clemmie

[greygoose]

It makes me weep to read things like this. Her doctor wants taking out and shooting! I think the most important thing to do is ask for a print-out of her results. Remind her negligent doctor that it's her legal right to have a copy, under the 1998 Data Protection Act. You need to know exactly what was tested, and exactly what the results were.

He's probably only tested the TSH. And, to be honest, it's doubtful if you'll ever get any satisfaction out of him. He probably thinks he's onto a good thing, pushing antidepressants on an old lady! (I shall be 72 in March, and it's not natural to be sitting in a chair, giving up! She needs help.)

So, if it's at all possible, it would be a good idea to get private labs done, so that you can see exactly what's going on with her FT4 and FT3 - although, with a TSH of over 5, they're bound to be low. Is she on any thyroid hormone replacement? Because if her TSH is consistently over 5, then she is hypo.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your next visit. I suppose it is just possible that her doctor might pull his socks up a bit, knowing that you're sitting there, knowing more than he does! x

[shaws Administrator]

Request a print-out from the surgery of the results of her last blood test with the ranges. Tell them you are your mother's carer and look after her welfare if they don't give you it. What her doctor should have done FIRST is to check both her Free T4 and Free T3 levels.

Anti-depressants can interfere with the uptake of thyroid hormones and if she is 'depressed' ask GP for liothryonine instead of anti-d's. He probably wont as they've been told not to prescribe it anymore which I think that is a dire decision for those patients who depend on it as it makes them feel much better or even get rid of symptoms altogether.

Doctors appear to be the least knowledge about how to relieve clinical symptoms. I should think we might get better treated by a Veterinary surgeon as at least they know signs/symptoms the animal displays.

This is a link:

restartmed.com/t3-thyroid-h...

In actual fact a TSH is FAR to high if being treated. The aim is a TSH of 1 or lower.

Doctor probably wont test FT4 and FT3 but if you can afford it you can get a postal finger-prick from a recommended lab.

It's disgraceful that people suffer unnecessarily due to the inept guidelines.

Sometimes anti-depressants can give unpleasant side effects, especially if not need when she needs thyroid hormones.

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

kirstiehurley As well as what has already been advised, the B12/Pernicious Anaemia thing jumps to mind. I'm not a B12 expert but this is what I'm thinking:

Your mum is having B12 injections every 3 months. What is her current level (maybe an active B12 test is needed for that).

Do the B12 injections give her a boost then she gradually goes down again?

Does she also supplement with B12 between injections?

Does she take a B Complex to balance the B vits as she's having B12.

Have a look here and watch the first film b12deficiency.info/films/

Is anything familiar? Maybe your mum isn't getting enough B12. I thought (but not 100% sure) that injections should be done every few days (??) until symptoms disappear. I think I've read that for most people every 3 months isn't enough.

Maybe pop over to the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum here on Health Unlocked for further advice healthunlocked.com/pasoc

Also, a private fingerprick test for all thyroid and vitamin and mineral levels would be a good idea of the GP won't do them all bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/T...

[humanbean]

Muscle spasms, cramps, and permanent muscle tension could be several things.

Magnesium is low in practically everyone. There isn't a good blood test for it. I would suggest supplementing.

Read the following links, decide what would suit best, and buy a supplement. Get your mother to supplement 300mg - 400mg magnesium per day.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

globalhealingcenter.com/nat...

metabolics.com/blog/the-def...

Since your mother has constipation you might start off by trying magnesium citrate. This is the one I take, and it has a mild laxative effect. It should be taken in the evening because it can make some people feel a little bit sleepy.

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Another thing to consider is potassium. Potassium can be depleted by high dose vitamin B12. It is something people have to be cautious in supplementing, I take 200mg - 400mg per day only when I have muscle spasm and twitching.

You could also suggest your mother eats more potassium-rich foods. But if she is very depressed this may not be possible to begin with. There are loads of links on the subject of potassium-rich foods.

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Low iron will cause severe cramp and restless legs. It isn't a good thing to supplement before testing. Taking iron unnecessarily is potentially poisonous, so testing first is essential. Ask for yout mother's iron levels to be tested.

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I would definitely suggest getting private testing you arrange yourself. To see a doctor privately, then have it turn out to be a complete waste of money is absolutely soul-destroying. (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)

The cheapest way of making absolutely certain the the necessary testing is done is by paying for it yourself. You could then post the results and ranges on here and ask for feedback. We can also tell you about the kind of supplements that are required to fix deficiencies.

The easiest form of testing for most of us is finger-prick testing. This is often referred to (by Blue Horizon) as microtainer testing. Getting a full sample from a vein in the arm is required for some tests though, and this is referred to as vacutainer testing.

Some links on the subject of testing :

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/T...

bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/W...

bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/e...

medichecks.com/find-a-test/...

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I don't know if you know this but it is possible to buy thyroid medication online. There are also other forms of treatment besides levothyroxine. Your mother may simply be under-medicated and require more levothyroxine. Alternatively she may need another form of thyroid medication altogether. But all these things are available. You need to know what to buy and where to buy it from. But get the testing out of the way first.