Doctors this morning....

[MrsSAcky]

So following doc visit this morning, these are my levels as follows and treatment changes to go with.

B12 Serum 179ng/L (200.00-900.0 range) - Below range still after B12 in tablet form, now prescribed 5 no. injections and review in 4 months, blood test for pernicious anemia at that time to be done also

B12 Folate - 2.81ug/L (3.89-26.8 range) - Below low reference limit, prescribed Folic Acid for 2 months

Vitamin D serum - 72nmol/L - says Adequate, no range given

Cholesterol - 6.5mmol/L - this is 0.2 down on last blood test (my paternal Grandmother naturally has high Chlosterol and has been on meds for over 30yrs)

Thyroid Serum TSH 4.76mlU/L (0.3-4.5 range) this is higher than the 3.7mIU/L in my blood test 5 months ago, my levothyroxine had been upped to 75mcg from 50mcg, and now Doctor has upped it to 100mcg a day

Serum Free T4 is still a steady 14.4pmol/L (10.00-22.0 range)

and my FBC is just below level....

Im tired all the time, got brain fog, breathing is tough sometimes but have blue and brown inhalers for this as have adult onset asthma.

Im hoping having B12 lifted to top end of range might give me the will to go out and exercise, as all i want to do is sleep, my diet is good but i just cant be bothered... you know what i mean?

[Clutter]

Sjep13,

B12 and folate deficiency is probably causing most of your symptoms but low thyroid will be responsible for some of it.

VitD 72 is just shy of replete 75 -200 nmol/L. It's very unlikely you will have any symptoms of low vitD at that level but you could see whether 1,000iu D3 until April improves energy. Ultraviolet light should be high enough in April to stimulate natural vitamin D. Take vitD 4 hours away from Levothyroxine.

[MrsSAcky in reply to Clutter]

Doctor wouldnt give me the D3 again, i had it last year and felt amazing lol, i used to take it at bed time, so not to interfere with my levo meds.

thanks

[Marz in reply to MrsSAcky]

It is VERY inexpensive to buy yourself

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

ive never looked tbh...

[humanbean in reply to MrsSAcky]

You can buy vitamin D3 in all sorts of different doses on Amazon, from 200 iU up to10,000 iU.

[Clutter in reply to MrsSAcky]

Sjep13,

You can buy it without prescription at any pharmacy.

[Marz]

I do not think you should wait 4 months for the PA testing - why ?

You could do with a FT3 result to see if you are converting the Levo ....

Do not worry about the cholesterol - that is something we DO need for good hormone function and for our brains !

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

Doctor advised 4 month repeat from last blood test, FT3 is a paid test, i'll double check, i've pushed for him to listen to me as feel dreadful, he said about my brain to thyroid may not be converting it hence the increase, i'll push him for the T3 test before i go in April, i know they'll do it via an endo at the hospital.

[Marz in reply to MrsSAcky]

Well you will only know if the FT3 is tested. Not sure I understood your post - did you mean you will have to wait 4 months for the PA Testing ?

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

4months till i have a repeat blood test for all items, to see for any changes

[greygoose in reply to MrsSAcky]

You should be tested for hypo six weeks after an increase! 4 months is much too long.

[bluebug in reply to MrsSAcky]

He can do the thyroid hormones separately in 6-8 weeks NOT 4 months.

All he had to do is give you the completed form for it and tell you when you go to the hospital/clinic to get the test.

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Marz]

Yes, for older people (like your gran) the higher the cholesterol the longer the life expectancy.

[Marz in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Think this is for another thread ....😊

[msglutenfreeuk in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Hi there

Do you have any More info on this? High chol for older people?

My 82 yr father in law was prescribed statins for cholesterol of 7, despite having NO other risk factors. Thankfully he stopped taking them quite soon as he kept falling asleep - no doubt the coenzyme q10. But I like to give him as much info as poss as he does listen but is of the generation who thinks doctors know everything - they are currently wanting to do a consultation for Dementia whilst he waits 2 weeks (!) for a b12 deficiency test which is a Moreno likely cause given his symptoms

Many thanks

Sam

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to msglutenfreeuk]

You'll find the reference to the study somewhere on Dr Malcolm Kendrick's blog. Here's one report o it from elsewhere: healthimpactnews.com/2013/s...

and news-medical.net/news/20160...

US measurements need to be converted to UK, though

and PPIs are implicated in dementia, so if he is taking those ... remember the GP wants him to have dementia because it's cost effective for the GP practice.

[msglutenfreeuk in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Sorry , another question, why is it cost effective for gps? Do they get extra funding if dementia diagnosed? Thanks

[humanbean in reply to msglutenfreeuk]

In the West Midlands they get £155 for every patient they diagnose with dementia.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[LynneG in reply to msglutenfreeuk]

Statins affect the same pathway as Coq10 and Squalene and also B12. So if on statins needs B12 supplementation and obv CoQ10 and get off the statins. Read Dr Kendrick's book - The Great Cholesterol Con also Doctoring Data or google for his blog The real reason for heart disease.

Also Dr Tom O'Bryan the man for Gluten info thedr.com. I listened to an interview where he staate the reason e got into gluten issues is because his father died far too early of a heart attack - postmortem - no justfiable cause. Persisted to find cause - was B12 deficiency causing some sort of vasilation (I better check, I wrote it down) which caused a heart attack. His comment was his father died because of a simple vit deficiency wich cost pennies to rectify! His father was not absorbing B12 because of intestinal villi damage from gluten/grains

So treating with a drug to prevent heart disease with something that causes a B12 deficiency is crazy! and also Squalene and CoQ10 which are heart protective.

And proven and agree with Angel of the North. The elderly need higher cholesterol.

[msglutenfreeuk in reply to LynneG]

Thanks, he came off the statins already which is good. I knew about Coq10 but not b12. Doing metabolism this weekend at college so no doubt it will come up!

[MrsSAcky in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Really! never knew that, her mother my Great Grandmother lived till 101....

[MrsSAcky]

All blood tests are done at the docs and usually back in 2-4 days, I've pushed for sooner before to no avail.

I'm having 2 injections of B12 next week and 2 the week at the surgery so might push then for retest after the 5th injection in 5 weeks time

Thanks tho 🙂

[Marz in reply to MrsSAcky]

Re-testing the B12 after injections will skew the results. You also run the risk of the GP saying you do not need anymore. I have read of this scenario often .....

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

mmmm.... my B12 showed lower this time after taking B12 tablets for 2 months..... but i agree with what your saying too

[Marz in reply to MrsSAcky]

Which ones were you taking and how much ?

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

I was taking cyanocobalamin,50mcg one a day, I had 50 from beginning September, my doc agrees those don't work, and I'm presuming there cheaper to prescribe than the injection

[Marz in reply to MrsSAcky]

Maybe try the lozenges you dissolve under the tongue so they go into your system avoiding the gut. Jarrow Methycobalamin B12 5000mcg may do the trick - from Amazon I use them in between my injections which is Hydroxocobalamin. Injections are NOT expensive - I buy 3 in a box and the syringes for under 5 euro here in Crete.

[MrsSAcky in reply to Marz]

Having same injections, but here as I'm hypothyroid I don't pay for my prescriptions as it's medication for life, well still pay my national insurance etc thro working lol... I'll look at Amazon tho, once seeing how I feel with the jabs too.

Thank you marz

[helvella in reply to MrsSAcky]

Cost differences can be difficult to establish. We often don't have full information available about medicine costs, and we are even less liekly to have proper costings of appointment + time to deliver the injection. Having said that, the price of injections might be lower!

In medicine cost alone:

One a day (90 tablets) of 50 microgram cyanobobalaimn would cost £7.99.

One injection would cost £2.41.

Cyanocobalamin (Non-proprietary) Less suitable for prescribing

Tablets, cyanocobalamin 50 micrograms. Net price 50-tab pack = £8.99

evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/b...

Hydroxocobalamin (Non-proprietary) Prescription only medicine

Injection, hydroxocobalamin 1 mg/mL. Net price 1-mL amp = £2.41

evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/b...

For comparison (and not a recommendation - just the first hit! There are very many others.):

Veganicity Vitamin B12 500µg Sublingual (Methylcobalamin) : Vitamin B12 Supplement : 90 Tablets = £6.45

amazon.co.uk/Veganicity-Vit...

[MrsSAcky in reply to helvella]

I really hope I didn't offend, in the england hypothyroid is classed as life limiting as medication is for life, hence I don't pay for my prescriptions, but in reality I do pay as I work and pay tax & ni. If only the cost let's were black and white persay, we could all make a decision to suit.

My doctor said he didn't like tablets as the never seemed to work, and myself took the tablets and my B12 still decreased whilst on them.

Apologies if I offended

[helvella in reply to MrsSAcky]

I think you'd find that the basis for hypothyroidism qualifying for "free" prescriptions in England is arbitrary. Someone, at some point, might have tried to make a sensible assessment but reality has overtaken that. There are many medicines which are so very important for those who need them, and may well be required for life, but do not qualify.

The use of oral B12 for those with absorption probelms requires high dose (at least 500 micrograms, preferably more) in order to exploit diffusion. That only occurs when a nice big dose hits the gut. 50 micrograms would be laughably small and incapable to providing the circumstances in which diffusion could occur - if anything to do with B12 deficiency were at all amusing.

[puncturedbicycle in reply to MrsSAcky]

Omg, my (private) doc told me I should be taking 5000-7000mcg oral b12 per day. 50 is like a drop in the ocean and that is why oral b12 'isn't working' according to that doc.

Low b12 is fairly easy to remedy (unlike say d) so if your levels were *decreasing* that is beyond the pale. This is like when they prescribe 5mcg t3 and then throw their hands up and say 'See, I told you it wouldn't help.'