Welcome to Scandinavia. This how we great and brave people treat thyroid issues

thyroidchange.org/our-blog/...

Was so depressing to read.

That Danish "expert" is a moron.

Swedish, oh well they just think they are so much better than the rest of the world.

Finnish? I hate to say but our doctors rather bitch about other doctors than treat patients. Maybe our doctors don't have enough work. It is so easy to prescribe statins and send the patient back home.

Norwegians, as much I love the beauty of their country these rich obnoxious people just are as lame as rest of Scandinavia.

I knew it is hard over here in Finland but had no idea how hard it seems to be in other parts of Scandinavia. In Norway it seems to be the best but for poor people it is not a choice.

Seriously ,what has to happen before treatment is updated and upgraded?

It seems to be useless to talk to authorities.

If patients know how much it can take to recover and studies back this up why doctors keep insisting it is the most easiest illness to cure?

Where are those doctors lurking who treat themselves with combination therapy and/or NDT?

We hear about human rights every day, we hear about equality every day. We hear so many empty words every day.

How many people suffer and how many people end up taking their lives just because some uptight morons want to make more money?

Old fashioned proper journalism has died. Over here they only publish outdated rubbish. Low fat milk and margarine keeps you healthy. Or they rather keep up with Kardashians. Charlie Sheen's HIV is bigger news. Those who have the nerve to search information and publish it are fired. It seems to be unwritten rule not to criticise doctors and/or health care. Freedom of speech? Is that something to eat?

Doctors are blaming us patients for googling diagnosis. Well as long as they are not doing their job properly we patients must do it for them. Doctors don't like patients to have balls big enough to demand better treatment. Are they blind or just some other way disabled ? They have access to same data we do and much more , but I guess doctors are not taught to read. Waste of time! With that fat pay check who cares.

Let me get back to my original question. What has to happen?

I am just so bored. Bored because we finns brag about how honest and good people we are. How we managed to defend our country against mighty Russia. Blah blah blah. Really ? And our doctors are cowards, bullying each other. What a wonderful country and people.

Don't ever bother to come to Finland. This is a country of morons.

Ugh.

87 Replies

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  • Justiina, if countries are judged on the quality of thyroid care given/received, I think they'll all be found wanting. Our NHS has always been excellent for acute and emergency illness but most of us admit it sucks when it comes to managing chronic illnesses.

    I had a marvellous time in Finland. Never thought I could enjoy the snow but I was snug as bug in the thermal ski suit onesies we hired and made snow angels. Even ate reindeer and was told off for telling my niece it was Rudolph :-D

  • Yes we finns are hated especially during the Xmas as we eat reindeer :D

    How about norwegians, they hunt reindeer!!

    To be honest Finland is very beautiful and we could be so much better in many ways. I live next to ski resort which is my second home and it is killing me to see it dying slowly because of rules and regulations.

    Before EU tourism was thriving.

    Health care in general is a battlefield as many illnesses are denied and head of endos told on TV that T3 is doping and affects like coffee. These kind of people are chosen to lead. Sigh.

    Yet any doctor could treat patients with combination therapy no rules against that. We don't have proper care rules about how to treat thyroid issues. So basically anyone can get the treatment BUT nobody wants to as someone will notify the authorities and the doctor ends up under investigation. Endos are losing patients to functional practices and that is why they are upset. That's when the bullying started and been on ever since. Now everyone thinks it is illegal to prescribe combination and/or NDT.

    So to us it is doctors fighting each other. And that is not just stupid. I am really ashamed.

    Of course there are doctors who have prescribed too much T3 as they have no idea about it. Patients have ended up in ER.

    But hey. How about those antibiotics that destroyed patients achilles and caused mental illness type of symptoms. Those antibiotics are considered the last resort but they are prescribed to normal urinary tract infections. Nobody blames the doctor. They blame the patient being mental ill and broken joints before antibiotics.

    Happened to my dad. He fortunately only broke his achilles but it took 4 months to recover from the surgery. They blamed his psoriasis. Psoriasis they could not diagnose even though my dad falls into that 2% whose psoriasis is super bad covering most of his body. Took him 10 years the get diagnosis as again it was about doctors fighting each other. He could not get referral to specialist until it was my mom's gynecologist who managed to push it through when my dad ended up bedridden being so ill cuz of psoriasis.

    This all sickens me as we finns are considered hard working, loyal, honest and tough people. It is all just words.

  • Reindeer is good! Yum!

  • Until the government serves the people and not the other way around, nothing will change. When everything is run by bean counters, bottom liners and bureaucrats, we will be ill-served. The first two are only concerned with containing costs, not maximizing quality of life and the latter is only concerned with protecting their jobs (some just a little inflated with their own self-importance and with what little power they may wield).

  • I agree!

    In the long run it would be cheaper to treat patients IMO.

    Now of course it is ridiculously expensive making patients running around and developing new illness while being untreated or mistreated.

    Makes you wonder are these people smart at all if they cannot see the pattern :D

    Over here in Finland the patients remaining untreated is relatively small group. We cannot make much noise. Same with all Scandinavia as we are small countries.

    Scandinavian have tried to gang up but still we are so small group. And then we have that Danish expert who considers thyroid patients being bitter for having lifelong illness and popping a pill every day has made us crazy.

    And he calls himself specialist. Pfffft.

  • I have said this for a while, the amount of tests, drugs and appointments wasted over 6 years when I had my thyroid removed seemed obvious to me!!

    Once I started self treating I didn't need all the other tablets, just the right one and the right test, I am now in trouble with my GP and endo for self medicating!! NHS gone mad

  • I've broached the subject of T3 several times with my GP as I think it would help with my oedema (which has "burst" again, requiring yet another course of dressings). But there are so many hassles, even over repeat prescriptions not being fulfilled because of not being quite near enough the date when I should've finished the last lot. The paternalism that Dr Malcolm Kendrick talks about. It's got to the stage that I'm refusing additional drugs and increased doses which would worsen the oedema, but wary of the knowledge that my GP refused treatment to someone who then had to make a regular 60 mile round trip by bicycle and buses to get his leg ulcers dressed.

  • your name gave me a real blast from the 80's a record by Suzanne vega, funny how the mind works x

  • That's great, because I chose the track on hospital radio back in the '80s when I was in for about three weeks. The staff, including the DJ (who didn't realise how funny she was), were very important for keeping our spirits up.

  • binkie doc, what did youtake?

  • I was taking thiroid (NDT) and was doing well, until my blood test showed a high T3 result and endo went bonkers, mainly because I was self medicating and she ranted about NDT, I now have to stick to 50mcg levo only for 4 weeks to appease my dr for next blood test dec 7th its ridiculous, I feel really ill and all my pain and fatigue back, muscles so weak and I have to do NHS talk today, they are really going to get it!

  • binki- this is interesting- im bombarding yu now, sorry-- what were you taking ndt? armour, or something else, and did you feel and have you just switched to levo cos gp said to and are you

    goingback to ndt after blood test....... and NHS talk, do you work for nhs and what is your talk ...is it a meeting on nhs stuff or you going in to rant? and does any one else find that there words appear here slowly , mine do, I have already typed but the words are printingout slowly after I have finished typing .

  • i was taking 4 grains of NDT (thiroid) and feeling good but i had taken my ndt the morning of test as i wasnt told tests being done, had tests 2 weeks earlier. My T3 was 10.9 and endo went berserk, even tho she knew i was on NDT and taken my dose that morning so obviously it would be high! i did not feel over medicated at all. I am confused by dose by how you feel not by tests, i was feeling good but look over medicated on test!

  • biinki I was taking75 levocrap and 20t3 and 7 drops of iodine and my t4 was 19. 5 highest it has ever been and t3 10.9 too my endo asked why but I felt ok too,backdownto my normal and I am very hypo now and ffeel ill

  • sorry my brain otally muddled, was that your T3 19.5?

  • binki i have corrected it now my t4 was 19.5 and t3 was 10.9 on t4and t3and iodine drops

  • Thank you blue petal, I wasn't sure. Well that's both of us feeling poop! x

  • binkie, why didn't you just refuse the test? Sometimes, we just have to say no.

  • I will know in future to refuse but it was such an awful appointment really confrontational, that tbh I was shell shocked and as she knew I was taking NDT I thought to refuse would make things worse :(

  • Yes, I know what you mean about the shell shock. They just Knock the breath out of you sometimes, with their stupidity. Bet the test was too late in the day, too, so that would have skewed the TSH! But they Don't seem to know that. :(

  • Blue petals, my talks are paid by nhs and 2 universities but i do not work for nhs. I talk to groups of final year med students and tell them my experience of poor/no diagnosis of being hypothyroid and how in 6 years after having most my thyroid removed it has ruined my life. I went from fit, sporty healthy girl to a house bound fatigued, bed bound, chronic pain massive weight gain near suicidal person.

    I am starting to get better now but it has been a nightmare tbh xx i consider it payback that my drs are being mocked by the jnr's xx

    i did a talk yesterday x

  • Yes, BP, that happens on here when the thread gets long. I've often noticed it, and it is extremely annoying!!!! Especially as I type rather fast, that then forget what i'm saying, and have to sit and wait for the writing on the screen to catch up with my brain! lol

  • no different in any country with hormone probs endocrine probs because they all get a fat cheque a good life ad they do not have to get the treatment right, because hormones once buggered up it takes forever to unbugger so they get away with it, fob off, next patient please........

  • "many thyroid patients, especially women, seem bitter, simply because they have to take a pill every day due to their having a chronic illness"

    No, that's not why they're bitter. They're bitter because their doctors are morons.

    You're right, it makes very depressing reading. Do you have any idea what thyroid treatment is like in Russia? Just curious.

    I think I signed the Finnish petition. But I'm not sure... lol

  • I knew you would find that statement as irritating as I did :D

    Not sure about Russians, should ask around as I am curious too. They probably deny thyroid gland even exist and if it does voting for Putin cures all people.

    No offense if any Russian reads this. Russians I have met have been really nice people, polite and smart.

  • lol Ditto for the Russians! And they are so smart I was wonering if they're smart enough to see through the hypo hype, and treat their thyroid patients reasonably.

  • Could be as they seem to do the opposite than western world :D

  • True.

    I remember when I was 8 months pregnant, I went to Bulgaria. And the beach was wall-to-wall Russian doctors! lol And the were so kind, and concerned about my 'delicate condition'. I thought it must be nice to have a Russian doctor - the doctors I saw throughout my pregnacy in London were basic brutes! No TLC there!!!

  • Well at least they do not deny thyroid gland existing :D

    rbth.com/science_and_tech/2...

    3dprint.com/54159/3d-printe...

    realnatural.org/russian-her...

    endonorm.ru/en/thyreotropic...

    healthneedscare.com/heal-th... (vodka seems to be important part of healing) :D

    But I assume getting T3 is not an issue in Russia as it seems to be sold easily for body builders.

    This is all I googled, have not talked with anyone. I do know one Russian guy who works over here, so next time i could ask him.

  • Thank you for sharing your research. I shall read it later.

    I'm not much of a vodka fan. Do you think gin would work as well? lol Or Tequila... I quite like Tequila...

  • Dunno, but their Garlic seems to work quite well.

  • Russian garlic? Where would you get that? I can only get the French variety.

  • Well, I've often wondered about that but Garlic is known as "Russian antibiotic". Maybe they import it.

  • Oh, is it? I've never heard that before. But I'm pretty sure any other nationality would work as well. If you like garlic! I'm not terribly keen...

  • You got me thinking, so I Googled "russian antibiotic garlic" and got some fascinating results, including this:

    Nature’s antibiotic:

    Fresh crushed garlic:

    Garlic has a *potent* history (heh).

    From Roman antiquity through World War I, garlic poultices were used to prevent wound infections. The famous microbiologist Louis Pasteur performed some of the original work showing that garlic could kill bacteria. In 1916, the British government issued a general plea for the public to supply it with garlic in order to meet wartime needs. Garlic was called Russian penicillin during World War II because, after running out of antibiotics, the Russian government turned to this ancient treatment for its soldiers.

    Fresh crushed garlic is the star of nature’s antibiotic, and the “fresh” part here is very important. Minced garlic in a jar will not do. When fresh garlic is crushed, a chemical reaction that causes sulfenic acid is set off. But sulfenic acid is unstable and breaks down steadily into another unstable compound called allicin, which has a strong antibiotic property. Let the fresh minced or crushed garlic sit for about 15 minutes before using it in order to build up a greater amount of allicin (which is what we want here).

  • That is fascinating.

    I have always known garlic is natural antibiotic but never actually read about it.

    When i was a kid my grandmother made me drink garlic milk when I was ill. Was awful :D

  • Yes, Russians love their garlic, but onions are also very important. Somebody told about how placing raw onions cut in half in your bedroom would help when you have a cold. Cleans the air or smth :D Have not tried it yet. Raw onions tend to give me a head ache. In UK there should be Russian shops in bigger cities, I'd look there for this special "russian" garlic. One thing I have noticed is that the one imported from China is not very strong.

    When I have a cold I mix fresh minced garlic and ginger with honey and lemon juice and eat a spoonful every hour. It's pretty nice and helps when you're congested. Usually the next day is much better.

  • I thought some of you would be interested to know that Garlic and Onions belong to the same genus, that of "Allium" (together with Leeks, Scallions,Chives, Shallots - and many others).

    Wild garlic grows all over the world and has a very interesting structure: Everything about it has a 3 or 6 fold symmetry, it has 6 petals, 6 stamens and it's stalk is triangular (which is very rare).

  • Raw onion is also recommended to put into socks and then socks on when going to sleep to help with coughing/flu.

    I guess these believes comes from Russia as Finland was a part of Russia and we have so long history.

    But all together now all books I read about hashimoto or anything related recommends garlic to kill bad bacteria in your gut.

    Basil is really strong herb too. I read that from basil oil you can make do powerful cleanser that it can kill Noro virus from surfaces.

    One can sanitize their hands just rubbing a leaf in their hands.

    Honey I have always used to sore throat, works perfect :)

  • I tried the onions in the socks thing. It didn't do anything for me.

    But I wish I'd known about the basil before! Thanks for the tip.

  • i was told by canadian friend to rub vick on my feet and put socks on before bed, it gets rid of coughs, i thought he was joshing with me but it works, i tell everyone. It is apparently very well known cough cure but i had never heard it xx

  • Did nothing for my cough.

  • I mix vick with hot water and inhale the steam. That works for me. I also rub vick on my chest, back and under my nose.

    I think not even everything works for all types of coughing.

    To me the steam works always the best. I often get really swollen sinuses up to my forehead. Inhaling steam helps to remove the stuff and it helps the ache around the eyebrows.

    But also avoiding dairy when having a flu and/or coughing as the casein in dairy is glue like stuff and it makes the mucus super sticky. Also avoiding too much protein seems to do good.

    For coughing chocolate/ hot chocolate is bad too. It irritates the lungs.

    So I figured there are plenty of things that work for different people. One just have to try which works for them.

  • this why when you use onions you should never leave a cut open onion out , throw it away or use it all because cut open onions draw all the germs towards it.

  • That's really interesting, LAHs. I didn't realise you could use the garlic externally, I thought you had to eat it. I shall remember that. Thank you.

  • in france we were told to use garlic poultice on insect bites and wasp stings, it works for me but not my hubby x

  • Baking soda works for me for insect bites :D

  • what is interesting about the Russians is from what I can remember, and I think it was my liberal thinkinh nhs homeopath that told me was that when we went down the pharm drug route they went

    downthe natural route to treat diseases. remember it was the Russians who had the very first man in space and he had to be mega healthy! and idont know if it still does this but Russia had a floatingship that operated on eyes because they are ACE in the eye field.

  • can we capture him a nd share his knowledge x

  • they seem to be a hardy nation that's for sure

  • Russia I think I quite good in medical stuff - if yu go by their eye treatments.

  • This gives an insight into Ukraine: topdocumentaryfilms.com/the...

    I'd heard of work on antibiotics derived from soil, but that appears to be based on earlier work of a Russian immigrant to the USA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma...

  • yes I think the russians are far more advanced than what they are given credit for- you only have to look at Vlads warfare! AND he doesn't fuff about, he may be little but he himself is a strongman. totally diversing from the russians and their health capabilities here but hey ho!

  • I'm waiting for delivery of a replacement PC so can't retrieve old emails at the moment, but I have a Polish pen-friend with a "Chernobyll Necklace" (thyroidectomy following the nuclear power plant meltdown), so will add those experiences to the pot, when possible.

  • I agree. I think in Russia they do so much proper research and good work in many areas, we just never learn about it as unfortunately in many cases Russians are considered as frauds. Which is sad!

  • Justiina,

    I have even quoted a Russian paper on several occasions!

    healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

    Wish that the Russian papers were more accessible - many do not seem to make it into PubMed, and many do not appear to be available in English, often not even an abstract.

  • Thanks!

    I wish that too as I know they have so much acknowledge. In a country that big , of course they have many excellent scientists and doctors.

    I know some doctors come to Finland to study for a year as we seem to have the best biochemistry education over here. Best in the world I mean. That was a surprise to me. It is said that if we finns had more money and resources we could do amazing work as the knowledge and equipment are the best.

    Those doctors who come to Finland are the best of the best so it is not about Russian medical school being shady shack in the backyard. This is why I don't understand why we don't appreciate their work more. They are properly educated and motivated. They seem to work really hard!

    But in Russia there might be less rules about proper care which makes it easier to try different treatments. Unfortunately that might lure some of those rotten apples to give their patients rat poison or whatever but it also means that doctors can be a bit more creative and search for options how to give better treatment.

    It is Russian politics ruining it for them. I think there so much intelligence and wisdom we never learn because of politics.

  • There was a documentary on phage therapy on UK television, quite a number of years ago now. Fascinating - and almost totally based in the then-USSR.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage...

  • i have pm'd you ref french diagnosis are their guidelines same as ours in UK. I have read they consider hypo if TSH over 2.5 but i dont know if the units measured are different, is french 2.5 same as our 2.5 which is considered normal xx

  • I'm in Denmark and yes, it's bad here. My labs are borderline, I feel like rubbish and need to sleep for at least 9 hours a day. Not to mention brain fog (and I am on a very healthy diet, for years now). Honestly, I feel like I'm demented when it comes to solving tasks, my studies are suffering.

    I have another chronic condition and the docs kept telling me it's in my head - literally the doc gave a lecture about EQ and other bs, as if that has anything to do with heavy periods... One doc yelled at me. I have never met more obnoxious people in my life than Danish doctors. And they are so proud of their free health care :D Funny thing is you better not dare to complain because everything is so amazing and I think most people believe it too - well, until they have problems and can't get help.

    I know many Danes who go abroad for labs and treatments. I'll be doing the same.

    For Finns I'd recommend going to Estonia, they've got clinics and labs there where you just walk in, pay a fraction of what it costs in Finland and get your tests done. Way easier. I cannot afford to go private in Denmark and there are no labs that you can just go and have tests done - all goes through system. Interestingly they consider themselves modern when it comes to healtcare and other areas. Yet, inside information has proved the opposite.

  • I can't afford to go to Estonia. If I could I don't have energy. I am half housebound and bedridden. I live far up north so travelling would take me a lot.

    I was shocked to find out how awful the situation in Denmark is. I know some danes but they rarely talk about issues over there.

    Maybe that is part of the myth of the happiest nation in the world. Some danes I know are obnoxiously positive and you can't talk about anything serious. They deny it all.

    Otherwise I like danes but as a melancholic and pessimistic finn it is hard to communicate with ridiculously happy danes :D

    I hope things change for all of us. Denmark should start by getting rid of that specialist calling thyroid patients bitter :D

  • It's sad that it all comes down to money and I understand the frustration so well. Ridiculous situation really - you can't get help in a country that is considered a dream place for many - the Scandinavian welfare paradise. I've been to Suomi several times and know that it's expensive to both live there and get around. Although the state provides a certain level of care it does not necessarily mean you have happyness in life.

    When it comes to Denmark and Danes then of course they are proud of their country and deny that there are problems. And as I see it, it is a paradise for many people - they live in their nice little bubble believing everything is 'fantastisk'. They don't want to or need to look outside, because when you have it all nice and comfy then there's no need to be curious about the outside world. Unfortunately, living in this bubble has made them naive and in my opinion, very narrowminded. Which I consider dangerous - they trust the system and don't question anything.

    I could bitch for days about what is rotten in DK. There are also nice things here but I am in no state to notice that so much. It's nice when you come as a (well off) tourist and don't stay too long.

    But I feel I must ruin this facade of happy Danes. It's a lie, a big myth indeed. It's real gloomy here - there's no winter, just rain and fog and cold hearted people.

    Trust me, they are not more happy than Finns. And I know Finns, they are very quiet and reserved, well, until they down a couple of drinks :) Then you may discover a whole new (friendly and talkative) person inside. Or not, some Finns seem to become more melancholic and quiet when they drink. Anyways, you have snow there and it helps against gloom, trust me, you'd prefer that to Danish howling winds and daily rainfall any time.

    There's something that I and other foreigners have noticed and that is how rude Danes are. They call it honesty and being straightforward but naah... It's just lack of empathy which sometimes makes me think they're robots.

    Now, this is an outsiders view and so I must say that they are not very friendly towards foreign people. I've lived here for almos 3 years yet I have made zero Danish friends. Many foreigners have that problem so they make friends among other expats. Talk about integration then - it goes both ways... And that's another long story :)

  • Oh dear:(

    I hope I don't sound patronising when I say it must be disheartening to be in foreign country and not making friends with them.

    I mean you might be tough and be ok about it but I would feel bad. I am talkative and social and it would hurt if local people would ignore me when I would want to know more and learn more.

    Tough.

    I guess Danish weather would depress me. I love winter and snow. At the moment we have quite a lot of snow and it is -2 c. It is so nice to go for a walk and enjoy the beauty of the nature. I would not change this even though during the winter I am freezing all the time :D

  • I just read my mile long rant about Denmark and it's awful! I must sound so bitter (like a woman who needs to take a pill every morning).

    I can't say I'm sad about not having Danish friends because other foreigners here are very nice and we have a lot more in common - culture shock, similar experiences and perception... So it's easier to bond.

    Maybe, if I could speak fluent Danish they would be nicer but it's hard to reach an acceptable level so they would actually speak to you in Danish. It's a real tough language to speak.

    I guess in many countries people are more or less cold towards foreign people, sort of defensive behaviour...

    I miss snow so much

  • Well I did not read it like you would be bitter as some of the things I have understood by reading things about Denmark.

    Danish language is so freaking weird :D as a person who knows some swedish and norwegian I can read danish but can't get a word when they speak. Hot potato in the throat :D

    You don't have to or cannot study Danish?

  • I am studying and I can write and read pretty well. Speaking and understanding is problematic - when I try to talk then 9 out of 10 are looking at me like I'm a moron and say "what???" because I didn't pronounce it right (aka perfectly). Anything less than perfect pronounciation is met with a scowl and refusal to continue the convo in Danish.

    Now, understanding is interesting. Regionally I'm probably in the worst place because I understand TV news and such, but not locals... They might have more than one små kartoffel in their mouth.

    Language school is kinda useless because it's all foreigners practicing with each other and we understand each other. I'm actually not convinced that Danes do not understand when we try to speak, I'm getting a feeling there something more and less nice behind it.

    Now, this is weird. Here's a link to an essay written few years ago by a British expat (and I just found it!), so imagine my surprise when I saw my thoughts and same choice of words in his writing.

    rense.com/general79/brave.htm

    P.S.: This essay can shed some light why things are the way they are (in health care and other areas). Just thought it's interesting.

  • After reading that essay I saw the light :D

    Now I started to understand not just you but why some of danes I know are what they are.

    There was this guy I used to talk a lot on skype. I could talk about something I heard on the news like swine flu, as it was the time for the first outbreak.

    He could say "oh why you worry, you should be happy, you are so young" or something like that. Complete nonsense.

    We never had a proper conversation and I was always wondering if he is stupid or something. But now I know why!

    This same guy called me some time ago just out of the blue, he was in Finland for a work trip. He said that it is so nice to walk around in the town when people look at you and they smile, they are so friendly.

    He also commented about the food he had eaten, said it is so good. Later on I noticed he had updated his facebook and told about his trip to Finland, no one commented :D

    We finnish people are so shy and worried about to speak English, we worry about screwing up. But foreign tourists always tells us not to worry, they think our english is pretty good and as long as you try everybody is happy! Same goes with people who try to speak finnish. Maybe there are some who would expect perfect finnish, but thats not most of us. We never judge people practicing finnish or pretend we don't understand.

    Btw I have always criticized the happiest nation thing as I have heard so many times from the news that a big % of under 30 year old danes have to retire every year because of mental problems. I have always figured it is because of living in denial. In my mind happy people do not ignore what is going around in the world, that is false. So I have always thought that the so called happiness is being just about denying the truth and pretending everything is so amazing. I could not live like that.

    That is one of the reasons I keep some distance to danes I know. I am a finn, I am sometimes cranky and pessimistic and I am not going to hide it, sometimes it is necessary to feel that way to get rid of the feeling. But around them you cannot be that way. If you cannot be yourself, then the friendships will die.

  • Danish conversation consists of a lot of uncomfortable silence unless you are long time friends. The silence is for thinking real hard about what to say next and when they don't really care, they have to think for a long time :D Or say something completely irrelevant.

    I've noticed that people here are very lonely, especially the old ones. They have been moved into elderly homes and you'd think that they would bond with other elderly living there, yet they walk around all alone. When I pass the houses I see them just sitting alone in their rooms and looking so utterly sad that it breaks my heart.

    I guess that despite the traditions of getting together for Christmas parties, baptisms and weddings, they don't engage much.

    There's not much spontaneity - every family has a big cork board and a calendar and all things are planned at least 6 months in advance.

    Most of my husbands friends have met their other halves online and when I look at some of these couples I wonder what keeps them together. They don't seem to have emotions. Maybe it's just mutually beneficial cohabitation so that they can breed in order to repay the debt to the society and produce new taxpayers.

    Divorce rate is high.

    I agree that denial brings misery and when they give in they start behaving in a way that will result in more misery - withdrawal from gatherings, drinking excessively, eating a very unhealthy diet, lacking of physical exercise... When I'm out shopping I often see miserable people filling their baskets with complete garbage food - candy, white bread, soda and beers. And it's really sad because when they have such poor diets they lack of many nutrients that are important for healthy brain chemistry.

    I have experienced it myself how sugar addiction made me so depressed and withdrawal was very hard.

    I've seen moms put soda in kids sippy cups and dipping pacifiers into cola. Or feeding their toddler a 100 gr pack of Haribo while out for a stroll. Every Friday people rush into candy stores to get their snolder (treat). It's normal to have cola with lunch or supper.

    One more thing... I've stumbled upon many blogs where expats have used a word 'dansplanation' - when a Danish person uses a combination of patriotism and limited knowledge of the non-danish world to explain Danish society to a foreigner. I must say I've had a lot of fun with it.

    Maybe it'll help to understand the viking people a little better :)

  • Norwegians eat sandwich for lunch which they call danish, at least those norwegians I know. One of them criticized that it is ridiculous for a grown up tall man to have couple of sandwiches for lunch. So I wonder if that is common with Norway, Denmark and Sweden too.

    Over here in Finland it has always been normal to eat 3 warm meals, proper food, no sandwiches and sodas.

    Unfortunately kids these days skip the free lunch at school and rather eat a sandwich with soda. And eat a lot of sugar too anyways. They seem to be miserable as I just heard from news, like it was a good news, that more kids in Finland are prescribed antidepressants. Sigh.

    My Norwegian friend is always like :O when I tell him about what I eat, but he is also envying our habits a bit and wishes it was more traditional in Norway too. When he told me how he eats and it seems to be quite normal for many Norwegians to eat that way I was like :O. Sounds so very poor diet. No proper breakfast, sandwiches for lunch and then one big meal in the evening.

    White bread over here in Finland has been so last season for years, but that is probably because we like dark bread made of rye more. Sometimes it was nice to toast some white bread, but most people rather choose "proper" bread for a snack if not able to have proper food.

    When I was at elementary school 86-96 we rarely had white bread. Cannot even remember white bread been offered often at business school either. I always ate a proper lunch at school as it is free.

    oh lol a lot of rambling about white bread :D

    Sort of fun to read your postings about danes. From you I am getting more realistic picture of how things are, because I am so tired of asking it from them! Only one dane I know is brutally honest, but he has aspergers so he cannot even lie :D

  • I cannot find th e English link to sign?

  • There isn't one! That's why I'm not sure I did it right. lol

  • Did you follow the directions? Was there in English :P

  • Scroll down and there is translation and directions.

  • Yeah, the article is in English, but the directions are still in Swedish :

    Etunimi

    Sukunimi

    Paikkakunta

    Maa

    What does all that mean? lol

  • :D wasn't there explanation in English?

    Etunimi = first name

    Sukunimi = last name

    Paikkakunta = city

    Maa = country

    Sähköpostiosoite = email

    Then you can tick kyllä = yes or ei = no whether you want your email address to be shown to all.

  • OK! So, I guessed them all right except the city, couldn't think what that might be - stupid, I know, but brain fog! Anyway, done it correctly, now. :)

    But, no, there was no English.

  • That is not Swedish! It is Finnish.

  • Well, excuse me! We didn't do Scandinavian languages at school.

  • idid Justina but I couldn't find it nor could grey goose

  • Justina, I am so glad you brought up this topic. I was just wondering how other countries handle this problem, it is just awful. It makes my fights with my endo about up a 1/4 grain or down a 1/4 grain pale in comparison.

    I was under the impression that it was only the UK and US who had it wrong. They do, but there does seem to be a bit of light at the end of the tunnel here if you know which direction to look.

    Anyway, great enlightening topic, many thanks.

  • Was not sure if I would post it at first but then I figured that do we really know what is going on in other countries.

    It might not help us as individuals but it might raise awareness. We share the same illness which does not care about nationality.

    Collecting data from all over the world takes time and it is hard but generally I am really interested how this is treated all over the world. Maybe it also helps to get better treatment.

    Finland will follow the rest of the world so I hope world changes soon. But more than anything I hope we finns would have the courage to make brave movements without kissing anyone's ass.

  • its a global thyroid prob so collecting other countries data is vital

  • Is it because of free health care - state controlled - that it is so bad? Doctors worry about following rules and regulations in order not to be investigated / struck off rather than getting patients well. If you were dependent on getting patients, you should have to get them well in order to make money. As it is now, you get patients and income regardless. In Norway you do pay, however, to your GP, less than £ 20.00 per visit.

  • Justina,

    Being Swedish myself, I can only confirm everything you say!

    I moved to Belgium 18 years ago, and I have to say that, even though a lot of things are better in Sweden than in Belgium, the Belgian health care system is superior to the Swedish one. All those Hertoghe doctors in Belgium (and other countries), who test all hormones, and work with NDT and other natural hormones...unheard of in Sweden, where there is strict adherence to the TSH, and only FT4 levels are considered important. I know several people in Sweden with thyroid disease, and they have never had their FT3 levels tested; most of them don't even know what T3 is....many doctors even seem to believe that, once you are on T4 drugs, and considered stable, only the TSH needs to be measured...:-(

    NB, I am criticizing the way thyroid disease, more particularly hypothyroidism,, is usually diagnosed and treated in Sweden. Cancer patients, stroke patients, people with hypertension and multiple sclerosis etc get excellent - and practically free - health care.

  • Same over here in Finland, health care can be quick and effective in some areas.

    Your posting made me wonder is the way thyroid issues are treated regional and if so, why.

    Would be interesting to have a map with different colours showing where it is T4 mono and where more open about to different treatments.

    So ,very interesting to know in Belgium for different treatments. Thanks :)

  • Same in Denmark. You only get TSH and rarely also T4 tested. Hell, when I had high cholesterol, very low vit-D and iron they said "all is normal". So imagine my surprise when I asked for a print out of my labs and saw it really was not that rosy after all.

    The docs here are really pushing anti-depressants no matter what you complain. I guess they think most people are not really ill, just miserable, without realising that in many cases depression is a symptom.

    And when it comes to cancer then unfortunately Denmark is the worst.

    I know of many families here where kids are growing up without a mom, because the doctor just ignored the womans complaints and late diagnosis usually is fatal when it comes to cancer.

  • I live in Phoenix Arizona located in the USA. I dont know anything about other countrys other then my own. Mexico and America but i must say ignorance is everywhere not just within the Doctors where your saying.

    Some doctors just forget the meaning of saving a life. Its hard enough living with Thyroid problems and to make it worst theirs plenty of us who dont get the proper care we should by our Doctors and that happens all the time everywhere, everyday.

    Just stay calm do alot more research then seek a better Doctor untill you find one that you really truly feel that can help fix you. I mean thats happen to me before.

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