Thyroid results incl RT3 - are they good?

[Krissin21]

Hi can someone tell me if my thyroid results are good. Dr says they are but I've felt for a while now there might be something going on with it. They are within range but I know some ranges can be harsher than others so just need to check.

Results are:

RT3 408 pmol/L (ref range 150-540)

TSH 1.03 (ref 0.40-3.5 mlU/l)

FT4 14.6 (ref pmol/l 9.0-19.0)

FT3 4.0 (ref pmol/l 2.6-6.0)

I have Type 1 Diabetes (for 23yrs) Pernicious Anemia (autoimmune B12 deficiency diagnosed this year), low vit d, low magnesium, low zinc, manganese was undetectable, low iron and low trace minerals

My hair has thinned out, quite badly 2 years ago but has recovered a little, my fatigue is ridiculous, I have had tinnitus for a few years and other things that align with thyroid symptoms...

So can anyone tell me if the thyroid tests are as good as they say and that I simply feel so crappy because of other reasons? Does rt3 need to be at the top end of the range or low end?

Thanks

[galathea]

I put the figures into this calculator....stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

And came up with zero. When you are looking for more than 20. Are you sure that they are both pmol/l. ?

Based on the above figure it could mean that t4 doesnt get converted into anything useful so you are getting no benefit...

Xx g

[humanbean in reply to galathea]

Divide the RT3 by 1000 to change the units from pmol/L into pmol/ml and you get a ratio of 9.8.

It seems to be the pmol/L in the RT3 figure which causes the problem - the calculator has a bug.

Since the FT3 is in the lower half of the range and the RT3 is in the upper half of the range it isn't terribly surprising that the ratio is too low.

My first guess is that fixing all the low nutrients would help enormously. And all the low nutrients may well be causing inflammation. The fact that PA has been diagnosed would certainly suggest gut inflammation is very likely.

In answer to your question, Krissin21, RT3 is almost certainly best in the lower half of the range, and FT3 needs to be approximately in the upper third, although some people are fine with it being anywhere in the upper half of the range. But I don't know how low the RT3 should go. As galathea said above the ratio is supposed to be above 20 to feel at your best.

[Krissin21]

Thank you, yes definitely pmol/L except the TSH which is measured in mlU/l) so if they are too low and rt3 is "high" what does that mean? Is that suggesting hashimotos? And why do doctors think it's ok?

[humanbean in reply to Krissin21]

This is a brief introduction to the subject :

stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

[Heloise]

I'm going to have two responses. This one is in regard to your reverse T3.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/r...

[Heloise]

Often, when people have low metabolism, the digestion doesn't work properly and when stomach acid is low you do not process nutrients very well. This is especially with minerals as they need acid to demineralize calcium, magnesium iron, selenium. Your thyroid needs selenium and iodine. If you start taking Betaine with your meals and possibly enzymes to extract more from your food, you could improve.

What sort of B12 are you taking. A sublingual or injections I hope, of methylcobalamin or some of the newer formulas.

All of your thyroid numbers could be better. Maybe an increase of your levo or NDT would be in order. How much do you take now?

[Krissin21 in reply to Heloise]

I don't take any thyroid meds as I have been told my thyroid is fine, I just have this nagging feeling that my thyroid function needs some help.

I take methylcobalamin injections, was dx in March this year and hydroxo did nothing for me except cause hideous and painful acne...I started on methyl in July after seeing an integrative Doctor.

So as my thyroid numbers stand now, do they look like there is an issue? Hypo or hyper?

[Heloise in reply to Krissin21]

Oh, ok, I would say your thyroid is flagging but not because of your thyroid which is trying to produce but your pituitary puts out the TSH and it should be higher since you need more T4 and T3. The reason it slows down may be due to your adrenal glands slowing it down. Your adrenal gland determines if you are able to handle a higher metabolism. One deterrent could be high cortisol using up all your energy or it may be due to your low iron which also stresses the adrenals. If you have time to watch this video, it's a good holistic view of the thyroid and adrenals. youtube.com/watch?v=T_Re4ja...(Not working as expected?)

Many doctors decide to treat the adrenals

[Marz in reply to Krissin21]

Hi Krissin21 - painful acne can be caused by excess Homocysteine leaving the body I have read on the PAS forum. Perhaps taking a good B complex to keep all the B's in balance would be good too. Higher Nature do a product containing all the B's and something else that helps with the lowering of Homocysteine.

Homocysteine is often high when B12 is low

[Krissin21 in reply to Marz]

Thanks Marz but as I have Pernicious Anemia, I am unable to absorb b12 thru the stomach as my immune system has destroyed the parietal cells in the stomach lining so I need to inject methyl b12. I do also take a compound script of vitamins which do include the other b vitamins. My vitamin b levels are all very good now

[Marz in reply to Krissin21]

.....yes I inject weekly too - don't have a Terminal Ileum - was only mentioning about the Homocysteine. Glad all your B's are good

[faith63 in reply to Marz]

my sons and my acne are caused by not having enough beneficial gut bacteria.

[faith63 in reply to Krissin21]

with autoimmune disease, like you have, you need to be looking at your Gut health. I am trying a functional medicine approach. Mark Hymans info on calming your immune system will send you in the right direction, or at least a new direction. You are getting no where with mainstream medicine and i wasn't either.

[humanbean in reply to Marz]

Thanks Marz, I didn't know that about B12, homocysteine leaving the body, and acne. When I started taking 5000mcg methylcobalamin tablets I got loads of painful spots. They did eventually go, but I can't remember how long it took.

Once the spots went I actually ended up with a clearer complexion than I can ever remember having.

[Hidden]

Hello Krissin,

Your reverse T3 is high.

This is the virtually inactive form of T3 and high levels are not good as will bind to T3 receptors blocking the action of T3.

Approximately 85% of circulating T3 is produced by monodeiodnation of T4 and the small amounts converted and unused is usually eliminated quickly by the body.

When too much RT3 is produced, it becomes a vicious circle as the RT3 competes with T3 as a substrate for the 5-deiodinase enzyme and will inhibit the conversion of T4 - T3.

You say ... {... low vit d, low magnesium, low zinc, manganese was undetectable, low iron and low trace minerals... } ... these deficiencies can all inhibit thyroid hormone conversion.

I know you have no parietal cells in the stomach lining but if this were me I would concentrate on attaining better nutrient levels.

If you have high thyroid antibody levels, these will inhibit conversion as well.

High RT3 levels can cause hypothyroid symptoms even when T4 & T3 show good results.

Flower

Supplements helping thyroid hormone conversion.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/treatm...

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Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.

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[Krissin21 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you Flower, that makes a little more sense. So if my other nutrients increase can this reduce the rt3 and therefore the symptoms also?

I think my thyroid antibodies are ok...tested in March the TG says <20 and TPO <10

So in saying all that, it's my deficiencies that are likely to be causing the RT3?

[Hidden in reply to Krissin21]

krissin,

I am no expert but if this were me, this is the path I would be looking at.

Good thyroid synthesis relies heavily on optimal nutrient levels (amongst many other things) and you have very low levels in a lot of nutrients that it relies on.

I don't know a lot about PA as don't suffer with this myself but if this were me I would be looking at ways to heal the gut ... (is this even possible with no parietal cells in the stomach lining... I don't know.! ! ..).

The gut needs gastric acid as well as B12 to absorb nutrients.

You may need to ask people who suffer with PA if it is possible to take Betaine HCI, digestive enzymes and biliary support that will help with absorption issues. Maybe post a new question aimed at PA sufferers about how they improve absorption issues or go on the PA forum. There must be lots of knowledgable people out there suffering as you do.

Betaine HCI is supposed to eventually encourage our own bodies to start secreting gastric acid itself but this will only happen when conditions are favourable in the gut. I am on a high dose and recently tried to reduce but all symptoms came straight back so I presume its long journey.

Also check you don't suffer any gut bacterial infections such as candida as this again will inhibit any progress.

You might also needs probiotics.

Good luck.

Flower

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

[LAHs]

I can only comment on the rT3 result and I agree completely with Flower's assessment. rT3 will occupy receptor sites on your cells and if rT3 is sitting there then your T3 cannot get to your cells - and you will feel crappy (excuse the medical term). Your rT3 is high but everything else seems to be pretty good. It is not simple to lower rT3. My rT3 was maxed out on Levo but dropped dramatically after I had been on amour NDT for 8 weeks.

Regarding the discussion about ratios and the STTM site, your two pieces of input have to be in the same units - doesn't matter which units, they just have to be the same. Then your ratios will come out right. FT3/rT3 should be >20