Hi all, hope you're having a good weekend. I have taking Armour Thyroid 30mg for a week now and I can feel a huge difference, the constant ache in my neck is gone, most pains in my back have dissapeared, am sleeping better and even my metabolism seems to have improved. The doctor also asked me to take Kelp tablets 3 times a day and an enzyme called Tyrosine 2 times a day. I also started taking Selenium, first in the form of Brazil nuts but now want to start a Selenium in Supplement form. I take my Armour grain first thing in the morning before breakfast, my question is, can I then take Selenium and Iodine with my breakfast or do they interfere with my Armour? Also can I take Iodine and Selenium at the same time? Thank you for taking the time to answer my query.
Best time to take Armour Thyroid and Supplements - Thyroid UK
Best time to take Armour Thyroid and Supplements
Fabulous that you are getting results. Did your dr - GP? or endo? - test your iodine levels before telling you to take kelp? Or did s/he ask about your existing diet? You have a most unusual doctor. Is s/he available for cloning?
Sorry that I can't answer your questions with any expert knowledge, but I would personally take the supplements separately from each other and away from the Armour just in case.
Not aware of the time difference needed for the taking of iodine & selenium so can't help up you there am afraid.
However I thought that taking Kelp in hypothyroidism was contra indicated.....anyone out there?
Well, I am interested in this too. It seems an unresolved question. Iodine deficiency is a major cause of hypo. Up till recently it was thought that iodine deficiency was not a factor in the UK, but that was just because no one had tested to see if we were deficient. (Hah! Typical.) Two studies now have found fairly widespread iodine deficiency, one in young girls, one in pregnant women. No study to my knowledge has yet bothered to test UK hypos at diagnosis for iodine status. My guess is that it will turn out to be widespread amongst us.
The main researcher in the UK on this is Martin van der pump of the Royal Free. If anyone inherits a fortune in the next few months, please pass him some so he can carry out this study. If you search his name and hypothyroidism and iodine in Pubmed his studies come up.
Iodine is of course essential for thyroid function.
Now the complex part. Some research has suggested that giving iodine in Hashimoto's can make it worse - "like pouring petrol on a bonfire" or something like that. I have looked at some of the research, but there is no firm conclusion to be drawn. Does it raise antibodies? In some studies, not others. In areas where there is iodine deficiency giving iodine supplements sometimes results in cases of Hashi's suddenly being identified - is that because it is causing it? Or is it unmasking it? That is, is it possible that giving iodine to someone starved of iodine with antibodies raises the TSH - but they already had all the symptoms? We don't know, because researchers rarely ask participants the "unscientific" question, "How do you feel, what are your symptoms?"
Could this even be the answer to the mystery of low TSH with obvious hypo symptoms - iodine deficiency? That's a wild surmise of mine, but you couldn't rule it out I think on the research as it stands.
Some doctors suggest that giving iodine is OK so long as you have selenium as well, that it is having the two minerals out of balance that is the problem. I think that's probably a surmise rather than proven too.
Meanwhile, back in the real world as patients, I think it is worth thinking about diet. The main source of iodine in the UK is milk. Fish is also a good source. I know I would have probably been iodine deficient from the age of about five, in that case.
Those with unidentified intolerances to casein and lactose, and celiacs - I wonder how much iodine they absorb, however much milk they drink?
Maybe we should all club together and crowdfund Vanderpump.
Thanks for a great post, you're right, there's alot to think about. Hope Vanderpump gets that research funding, sounds like he's study could reveal quite alot.
Do you mind my asking what foods you weren't eating? Why you were iodine short?
And also, when you next see Dr Dreamy, please could you ask him what percentage of the hypo patients he tests are iodine deficient?
Having been a big dairy eater all my life then I must have had a good source of iodine.
Good it's being researched though. Not sure how keen I'm on Martin van dear Pump -isn't he ante NDT?
Yes, your intake of iodine from milk must have been good - I wonder whether absorption problems might still keep iodine levels down for some people.
Again, I don't think the research has been done.
No. Not according to the latest guidelines (May 2015 I think) to which he puts his name.
They point out the lack of research on T3. But they do agree that in a minority of patients T3 may be useful.
"Is there a place for combination therapy with L-T4 and L-T3 in patients who have persistent symptoms despite serum TSH values within the reference range?
ETAConsider L-T4 and L-T3 as an experimental approach in compliant L-T4-treated hypothyroid patients who have persistent complaints despite serum TSH values within the reference range, provided they have previously been given support to deal with the chronic nature of their disease and associated autoimmune diseases have been ruled out."
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
Is the full current mainline NHS thinking of which Vanderpump is part.
He/they don't think it should be done "routinely" where T4 doesn't work because of insufficient evidence. I would think some of his patients are getting it though. Anyone out there?
But in any case, his research on iodine is separate and valuable. If only he would apply it to us.
And see this:
Data suggest that 5–10% of L-T4-treated hypothyroid patients with normal serum TSH have persistent symptoms which can be related to the disease and L-T4 therapy(evidence base rating: 2/+00)
Is there a biological rationale for persistent complaints in L-T4-treated hypothyroid patients?ETASuggested explanations for persistent symptoms in L-T4-treated hypothyroid patients despite normalization of serum TSH, include awareness of a chronic disease, presence of associated autoimmune diseases, thyroid autoimmunity per se (independent of thyroid function), AND (my capitals) inadequacy of L-T4 treatment to restore physiological T4 and T3 concentrations in serum and tissues(evidence base: 2/+00
What approach should be taken in patients treated for hypothyroidism who have normal serum TSH values but still have unresolved symptoms?
ATAA minority of patients with hypothyroidism, but normal serum TSH values, may perceive a suboptimal health status of unclear aetiology. Acknowledgement of the patients’ symptoms and evaluation for alternative causes is recommended in such cases. Future research into whether there are subgroups of the population being treated for hypothyroidism who might benefit from combination therapy should be encouraged(Evidence base rating) 2/+
Sorry, will stop posting soon. Gripped by this document.
Here is their current thinking, including V d P on iodine supps "Particularly caution against the use of pharmacologic doses of iodine because of the risk of thyrotoxicosis and hypothyroidism in those with intact thyroid glands susceptible to becoming further dysregulated because of underlying thyroid pathology"
No guidance on testing for iodine def that I can see though... nothing on whether iodine deficiency should be treated in hypo.
Yet you are feeling better, not worse Julia. Please, please keep us updated on your progress.
OK, so I am becoming OCD on this. Forgive me. It's because I'm taking iodine, so I want to know what's true.
This is vanderpump on iodine in hypo, from the British Thyroid Assoc site, if it is not treacherous to quote it.
"For people with a properly functioning thyroid iodine is essential as it is required for the production of thyroxine. It is particularly important in women who are pregnant as it is needed to ensure the development of a baby's brain during pregnancy and early life. People who are taking replacement thyroxine (levothyroxine) however do not have a functioning thyroid to absorb iodine and therefore iodine is not required. For patients being treated for hyperthyroidism, taking an iodine supplement is unnecessary and can worsen the condition.'
IT is not phrased v clearly. Iodine must be absolutely essential in pregnancy even when hypo. He also does not appear to say here that iodine worsens hypo, only hyper. Also, iodine must surely have other functions in the body than in the thyroid - if there is a deficiency, surely it is needed.
Tyrosine is not an enzyme - if you were told that, you were told wrong.
Wiki is quite good on this:
You know all this nonsense re research needed makes me feel so cross re NDTs. Funny how they are now regarded as experimental when they were the standard recognised treatment for decades with great effect!! Is he trying to say that in it was mass treating without outcomes up into the 1970's??? Really????
This issue of combination therapy has only come into play since the mass introduction of synthetic Levothyroxine mono therapy. I just feel my frustration rise as he doesn't question why it is a problem but flips it back to NDTs. Does not make sense and as a result I have no faith in this man. Am tired of bodies making ridiculous statements like this and frankly it seems to me to show the inverse of what he is saying -they don't have the mass research to say T3 is ineffective therapy -therefore they shouldn't argue against it!! On top of which the evidence is there -there are decades of effective treatment using NDTs until the pharma got their hands on a patent for synthetic therapy....boom...all the research is headed their way to substantiate and back their profits. Since which the arguments put forward become ever increasingly illogical. Then the TSH argument comes into play -despite their being research to shoe that TSH as an indicator in its own for thyroid intervention is a poor indicator.....
Re iodine it has been long been known to naturopaths that care should
always be taken over iodine consumption -however he doesn't explain Derbyshire neck -which was something that occurred due to lack of iodine -Derbyshire being as far from the sea as is possible in the UK -therefore less in the air.
So sorry -can't stand the man!! In my opinion he uses his 'authorities position' to peddle dangerous mythology as fact!
Apologies for the rant!
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