Vitamin B12 deficiency has been reported in patients with Autoimmune thyroid disorders. However there is limited data on exact prevalence of low B12 and its correlation with anti-thyroperoxidase antibody (anti-TPO) levels in these patients. The aim of our study was to estimate serum vitamin B12 levels in autoimmune thyroid disorders and to correlate B12 levels with anti-TPO. 350 patients were selected by convenient sampling. Vitamin B12 levels and thyroid parameters were estimated using fully automated chemiluminescence method on Access 2. Results of our study shows that using the manufacturer's cut-off of 145 pg/mL, the prevalence of low serum vitamin B12 was found to be 45.50 %. Higher prevalence (55 %) was seen based on the published cut-off of 200 pg/mL The study however did not demonstrate any significant correlation between vitamin B12 levels and anti-TPO (r = -0.11 and p value of 0.30).
Martyn Hooper did say at the conference - check that B12, symptoms overlap.
I've seen studies reporting 25 to 40% of Thyroidies suffer low B12 (or even PA).
Thyroid slows down with age as does stomach acid production, not sure which is the egg & which the chicken - I suspect VitD fowl play. It's too late tonight to elaborate.
Seems a lot of folk are on PPIs for GERD/Hiatus hernia/Gallbladder/IBS etc... makes me wonder....
low stomach acid (& protective mucous) > HPylori has a field day > gluten/gliadin crosses over into blood > body reacts to invaders > autoimmune response.
There's only a bit of the gut that can absorb B12 (if the right lactobaccillus are grazing there - I think one sort are reuterii?)
There has been a monumental shift Yes perhaps that is why many of us are on the PAS forum too....eventually we will all be doing dot-to-dot exercises !
In the past there was a person posting here with great knowledge - sadly she left - however it was her view that everyone here had B12 issues.....
Wow Marz! that is a big shift and I'm glad the knowledge is out there!
We welcome anyone coming over for a looksie, ask questions & share info (lots of HU members with PA/fibro/RA/diabetes etc. are here already (GP said my symptoms were CFS). I do believe autoimmune diseases are linked & often have the same trigger (how often do GPs say virus?) or caused by a basic lack of something - can't knock Hypocrates 'all disease begins in the gut'. Eliminating the 'something' - even one by one deficiencies/low minerals is empowering and gives us hope to achieve better health.
It was Hampster who was very knowledgeable on B12, I do miss her
When HU 'merged' the forum search - I thought it was annoying - however I think it makes you realise a lot of us actually have the same problems (some just labelled differently!) J
Me too ! Yes I miss Hampster too - she had great knowledge and was able to present in a succinct manner. I learnt loads from her. Of course everything is connected - how many times do we say that on this forum - hence Functional Medicine will be the future.
Hippocrates - let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food - or some such wisdom. Have to say Greeks are still very traditional about the way they eat.....
Illness/conditions - same thing different label - a rose by any other name would smell as sweet
I think most of Europe are traditional about their eating habits - eating mostly local produce like their grandparents before them - and a lot more fish
I'm off to Denmark soon - pork, butter, cream, pastries, licorice & loads of fisk in various disguise everywhere - (possibly a few Vikings too?)
It all went wrong after the war, food was scarce they looked to alternatives like the dreaded plastic marg, mostly since the 70s (IMHO) when we adopted everyone else's cuisine - actually it wasn't just that - it was also the 'diet culture' & being made to feel guilty for eating at all! oops rant over... J
Wow - I went to Denmark in 1969. Ate wonderful fish straight from the boat belonging to our hosts. When cooked the bones went blue - some sort of sea pike I think. I loved it....
yes I'm so lucky my best mate lives there now, she's Danish but used to live here in Shropshire when our kids were growing up. We will just continue where we left off last year!
The funny thing is I usually lose about half a stone from eating more (she's a wonderful cook) - or it could be the giggling....
I too have wondered more than once whether the thyroid and PA site should be linked Helvella.
Having investigated both diseases, the symptoms are so often interlinked and there are many connections between the two autoimmune problems, e.g. the gut, especially low stomach acid causing malabsorption of nutrients such as B12, iron, etc., and the endocrine system as these two links highlight:
"How hypothyroidism negatively affects your stomach acid levels:"
"Just as hypothyroidism can result in the drying out of your skin and hair, it also seems to lower the levels of stomach acid in many thyroid patients, possibly by lowering your amount of parietel cells or lowering their ability to produce gastric acid. The result? The absorption of important nutrients is reduced, and you can find yourself with non-optimal or low levels of iron, B12, Vitamin D and more. And you won’t have the protection you once had against bad forms of bacteria, causing their over-growth (dysbyosis).Symptoms can include delayed excessive gas as that bacteria enters your intestine. (Long term antibiotic use can also cause the same overgrowth.) "
In my very early days of involvement with thyroid, one regular poster used to point out the similarities between diabetes mellitus and thyroid. Noting that, apart from the insulin issues (which are rather an important part of DM!), there was uncanny similarity.
Someone once told me that Hypothyroidism mimics B12 deficiency, I then went through all the symptoms of both Hypo and B12 deficiency one by one and found the only difference I could see at that time was in B12 deficiency there was not a symptom of feeling cold or shivery (having lower temperatures.) as there is with Hypothyroidism.
I think the thyroid is affected by most deficiencies/illness & acts to put the body into 'limp mode' - orange light - 30 miles an hour only - take the crawler lane until problem fixed....
unfortunately if the initial problem isn't fixed it gets much, much worse
How weird is that? Just went today and had a blood test for TPO antibodies and I am receiving treatment with B12. Having just been diagnosed hypothyroid, plus only discovering yesterday that my partial IgA deficiency is an autoimmune condition, then I feel strongly, for me at least, that the two things are definitely connected. And I doubt I am alone. Maybe a third 'club' is needed - the B12/Thyroid Club, for all of us who have 'crossed over'!
Reading all the above got me thinking. My B12 levels were low when I first learned how important they were, around 350 mark. Last year i went gluten and lacto free because of raised TPO antibodies and this year after supplementing with Jarrows and being gluten and lacto free my B12 was 1100 and my TPO 13 (range 0-60 is negative)!
Just to throw a spanner in the works (or maybe not, just another autoimmune condition) My Dad had Crohn's diagnosed 3 years ago and had to have an op and then had to have B12 injections. My hypo comes from his family, two thirds of his siblings and my cousins suffer with it. One of my sisters recently diagnosed hypo and looks like another going that way! Holisitic medicine,/taking a family history- does anyone in NHS understand what it means and its importance!!?
Crimple, when I was a child I was very allergic to gnat bites and invariably had to attend A&E during camping trips for something to reduce the swelling. My skinny child's foot and leg wouldn't fit into a man's wellie boot. My GP prescribed something which I could take to prevent the reaction when I got bitten. A couple of years later she wouldn't prescribe it as 'cure, not prevention' was the new mantra. Back to A&E until I grew out of the allergy.
Clutter, how interesting, I have always had a very bad reaction to insect bites and can't tolerate anti histamines!. So how did the GP go about Curing you? Oh sorry I see you had to grow out of it!
Back to curing, surely that no longer is top of the list now. Excuse my severe sarcasm but the "cure" now seems to be make it very difficult to get to see a doc, maybe the problem will have resolved or morphed into something much more serious after a 3 week wait and when you do get to the surgery limit the time you have with the doc, so you can only discuss one or at most two symptoms with them. Anything more is just sheer greed, it is after all a national health service that we are proud of?!
What was that about our cancer detection rates being worse than most of the rest of Europe?
I must desist from further sarcasm. Feeling rather tetchy as i fear i will have to demand to see a doc tomorrow, not a thyroid issue and even worse I will want to see a female but the only appointments ever showing as available are with the male GP's.!!
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