Vit B12 Question

[angelharley]

Hi All,

I just rang up to ask if my blood tests are back, I had FBC, Vit B12 and Thyroid.

The receptionist said "Yes all Normal"!!!

I then ask what was my B12, she said 184....5 mths ago, it was 250, I have been very poorly, so many symptoms, palms of hands red at times, last week the roof of my mouth had red patches and I was giving Oral steroids.

So I said to her, thats hardly normal....the nice GP that I see has now gone on holiday for 2 weeks and the one that I don't seem to agree with, has marked all tests as normal.

I also tested positive 5 mths ago for Gastric Paricetal Abs but noone is taking a blind bit of notice, how poorly I've been feeling.

I'm going down the surgery now to get a print out....Wonder what else in it is gonna show...."Normal"!!

Please can anyone help on where to go or what to say fron now on?

Thanks as always

Ok....I've got the print out!!

As I said above

Serum B12 184 ng/l (120.00-625.00)

Also this is below range

MCHC 316 (320.00-360.00g/l)

Lymphocytes 3.61 (150-3.50) above range

Large unstained cells 0.14 (0.00 0.1610)#

Thyroid Blood tests

Serum TSH 0.79 (0.34-5.60)

Serum free T4 12.4 (7.9-20.0)

Serum Free T3 4.3 (3.80-6.00)

Any comments would be appreciated

Natalie

[Hidden]

Hi Nat, is the bottom of the B12 range really 120? I've never seen one go that low before. Also, did they test MCV , folate and ferritin?

I would say wait for the nice doctor to come back, and go in loaded with questions. Don't waste your time on this one. I think low MCHC can indicate iron anaemia - if you have low iron alongside low B12/folate your MCV can appear falsely normal.

Your T4 and T3 aren't brilliant either, are they?

I'm going to respond to you over on the PAS forum on the B12 side.

H x

[angelharley in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Chris....I couldn't believe the ranges of the Lab. When I had B12 done privately in April 2013, the lower range was 180.

I've just had a reply from Pat on the PAS site and given her my result of MCHC that she asked for. Head is so messed up hun, can't think straight at all.

Also did the test on the PAS site and was 47, my vision has been getting worse as in blurry as the days go by.

I'm gonna wait for the nice doc to come back from his hols cos I know I'll end up argueing with the other. Oh yea...my mood is alwful too, is not like me but I get so angry and irritable. Also only 2 periods this year and 5 last year but have had the tests and I'm not at all pre-menopausal.

See u over on the other site

Nat x

ps

Should my T4 T3 be up in the higher range hun?

[Hidden in reply to angelharley]

I would say most definitely on the T4 and T3 front, should be much higher, your TSH looks pretty good. I think it was CarolynB that said before on this forum that low B12 can interfere with the signalling between pituitary and thyroid, so you can have a nice low TSH but not so great T4 and T3. If you're out there CarolynB, do you have a link that explains this? Thx

[twinks in reply to Hidden]

Thanks hampster

[twinks in reply to Hidden]

What is pas site thanks

[Hidden in reply to twinks]

Pernicious anaemia Society, forum here:

pernicious-anaemia-society....

[lila2]

Hi, mine was 209 dr refused to treat as he said was in range,I took jarrows sublingual 5000 and next blood test showed 800 , feel so much better, no sore mouth, no tingling in feet, however I am careful not to over do it as too much stops me sleeping, you need also to take vit b complex with vit b12 as they work together.i also now eat more red meat. By your results you may have pernicious anaemia so may be. Better to discuss with dr before supplementing. Also have you had your vit d checked. I feel that optimising my vist was of more help that the thyroxine. Regards

[angelharley in reply to lila2]

Hi Lila,

I did wonder back in April whether I may have PA and now after todays result, its made it even stronger.

i haven't had any iron folate or ferriton tests done or vitD but hopefully GP will test these sometime soon.

All I know is I have a lot of symptoms of B12 Difficiency.

I did order online 1000mg vit B12 tablets and have taken them for 4 days now.

I eat red meat daily, as my diet is mainly meat so not sure why its so low.

Natalie

[Hidden in reply to angelharley]

Nat, just bear in mind that supplementing now will have an effect on any further tests you have done...

[angelharley in reply to Hidden]

Ok Chris will stop as from tomorrow, I did take a 1000mg tab the day before the test and it was Carolyn that told me not to take anymore but have felt really bad and I thought maybe it would make me feel better. I understand what u are saying thou.

Maybe I will have to hit rock bottom before Doctors do anything but all the time my health is deterioting hun

I will probably have to colapse in a heap before the NHS see's it as difficient.

Thanks again

Nat

[Hidden in reply to angelharley]

If you've only taken 4 it won't take that long to leave your system, if you wait for your nice doctor you could ask him to retest you, explain that you had taken a supplement the day before. In fact, he might agree to treat you if you explain that that result was with supplementation, if you see what I mean? It's so low, and you have so many symptoms. It's hideous that docs wait for levels to reach critical levels before doing anything, criminal really. x

[angelharley in reply to Hidden]

Good idea Chris, I'll take the supplements and show him what I'd taken before the test. I ust feel I need a conclusion to all of this, I'm not asking a lot am I ?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Sorry to hijack your post hampster, but I have difficulty working out B12 serum levels.

I understand crudely that with PA, the B12 which enters the stomach via food, and is not used up by the body because of missing intrinsic factor/parietal cells, so does the serum B12 go down as a result or can it remain falsely high or in range. I know there is an active B12 test which is more accurate but I don't quite get why serum B12 can show normal, does the body not get rid of unused B12 in the gut. Sorry to sound so thick. x

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Getting B12 from food into our bodies is an extremely complex process, and there are lots of points along the way that that process can go wrong. Aside from classic PA or atrophic gastritis, you can have transport protein defects, or methylation cycle defects, that stop the body doing anything with the B12 even though it's absorbed OK in the stomach.

You should read this, The Enterohepatic Circulation by Kevin Byrne:

pernicious-anaemia-society....

In terms of genetic abnormalities, it's a huge and complicated subject, I certainly haven't got my head around it all. I mean have a look at this:

heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrige...

This is complex biochemistry we're taking about, our poor GPs don't stand a chance!!!

[angelharley in reply to Hidden]

Hi Chris, My main diet is meat lol I crave for it. I eat red meat all the time and ould never be a Veggie lol So it does seem I'm not absorbing it!!

Martin spoke to me this morning from PA and couldn't believe that I wasn't on inections, will post more info on PA site.

x

[Hidden in reply to angelharley]

Totally agree with Martin, you need injections! And I never get used to the ignorance level about this in the medical profession. x

[angelharley in reply to Hidden]

Hi Hun,

this morning whist having a cuppa with a friend, I got a sudden sharp zap in my head (right side above ear) and then this was on aoff for a couple of hrs at least, it left my face feeling numb on that side. I can still feel little electric waves going off now. It feels a bit like a local anesthetic. Have u experienced anything like this before?

I've asked the GP to call me

Nat x

[Hidden in reply to angelharley]

No idea, probably best to discuss with the doc. x

[sewfossy]

If your GP won't give you B12 then by some Jarrows sublingual (I get them from Amazon). My B12 was 328 but increased on Jarrows. I stopped taking them for a while when I ran out and numbness came back in my hands/carpal tunnel symptoms reappeared.

[angelharley in reply to sewfossy]

the only problem is I don't wanna mask any further blood tests and want a proper diagnosis. I know its not dietry cos my main diet is red meat, eggs and milk.

[sewfossy in reply to angelharley]

Totally understand that but if you get nowhere with your GP sublingual B12 is a good option to consider in the future & some say as good as having the jabs. My GP said I could be referred for physio for carpel tunnel syndrome or maybe have an operation on my wrist which may or may not work. Even on enough Thyroid replacement the problem didn't go away, but when I added B12 it made all the difference for me, with the bonus of increased energy. Go back to your GP with as much information as you can find (and maybe take someone along for support & so you don't feel fobbed off) good luck xx

[sewfossy in reply to sewfossy]

I also used to get weird numb feelings down my cheekbones & thats gone too

[tegz]

B12 takes a long while to build up. We only need about 5mcg a day and the body keeps years of stores when healthy. The errors of having low B12 like yours are well known.

500 is the minimum in Japan for the elderly- and people with other problems could well join that club for benefits..

Can't believe the shoddy response you got on your earlier tests.

Don't fret- B12 is rarely overdone [polyps are prone to thrive on it- if you have them] but the lack is serious. No wonder you hanker after big steaks...

I'm sure ,with the help of this site, you will get in the habit of digging deeper into your health anomalies -and chase out some better treatment.

[angelharley in reply to tegz]

What are Polps Tegz?

Off to the GP this afternoon, need some sort of treatment sometime soon x

[tegz in reply to angelharley]

Polyps are those little devils [growths on a stalk] that grow in the gut,nasal passages and elsewhere, that can turn nasty. They're common enough- and the B12 encourages newly dividing cells- something you don't want right then!

[mstp in reply to tegz]

Tegz, what do you mean when you say 'polyps are prone to thrive on it'? I was told I have some polyps and have been taking B12 raising it from 259 to 600 now. Will the B12 be making my polyps grow? Should I be worried?

[tegz in reply to mstp]

Just about the only downside I've found to B12 supps. I've come across in mt web trawls.

If you have polyps, then it's something to keep an eye on.

If your B12 has come up then that should see you through for a while. It shouldn't go down quickly -as I think the daily usage is quite low, but it's so important to the body that we keep years of ready supplies in store..

[JohnJones]

Normal b12 should be above 500pcgm/ml, not 180. The European and Japanese normal limits are set three times higher (about 550) than the UK and USA.

YOu have B12 deficiency. I had the same problem. You must insist on treatment.

[angelharley in reply to JohnJones]

Thank you for your comment. I'm off to see my Endo this morning regarding a Short Synacthen test I had done a couple of weeks ago. He's recalled me, so I'm taking this as an abnormal result. I wasn't due to see him till June 12th. While I'm there I'm going to ask him for B12 treatment, as I have nerve pain in my right leg, painful and numb foot and at night time while I'm trying to sleep, I get a lot of pins and needles in it it. I'm also going to ask him for some Folic acid as my Folate is very low too, last test was 4.1 < 3. I know it's in the normal range again but it's near deficientcy.

Nat

[Marylyn]

You need to read my lifesaving "book Could it be B12"?Available on fishpond.then google Vitamin B12 deficiency treatment protocol download print copy take to Gp to educate.good luck