The power of Vinegar

[SpongeJim]

I have had mild IBSD for about 10 years. I saw a nutritionist last year who recommended taking a supplement of stomach acid on the basis that people lose stomach acid production after the age of 40, and that some individuals never produce enough acid. I'm a fit 63 year old male. I started taking pepsin and betaine (stomach enzyme and acid combination capsule). This seemed to really help.

A couple of months ago I listened to a podcast from The Glucose Goddess (on Diary of a CEO). One of her digestion "hacks" was to take a table spoonful of any vinegar, dissolved in water 10 minutes before the main meal. It doesn't have to be apple cider. I gave it a go and it seems to be working great. I wondered if anyone else had tried? I use this instead of the supplement at main meal time.

PS- If you decide to try it, make sure to suck through a straw as it could have an effect on tooth enamel.

[Hidden]

tried apple cider vinegar, it tightens up the stomach but the taste is rank, you can add a little lemon juice to it, try a port & brandy equal parts, it’s a common “cure” in Ireland for a iffy tummy but it will tighten the stomach.

[Luisa22 in reply to Hidden]

I tried apple cider vinegar too. A very good one with the "mother" in it. (Bragg's I think it was.) a couple of years ago when I was getting some reflux (which passed and hasn't come back since). I never liked the smell or taste of vinegar but tried it anyway. It really messed up my taste buds. I was tasting it all day long and it altered the flavours of what I ate. I am not kidding, it was a good 2 days before I stopped tasting vinegar and could taste my food again.

I gave the bottle almost full to my friend, who loves it and takes it daily.

I would definitely rather have a port and brandy! lol Yes, that was often recommended for an upset tummy. I remember that from childhood. If I had a "dicky tum" I would be given a teaspoonful of it. Yum!

[BabsyWabsy in reply to Luisa22]

I very occasionally have a glass of dry white wine for an 'iffy tummy'. Suggested to me by a senior nurse. It seems to work. Never tried port and brandy, yet...

[xjrs]

Even a small amount of apple cider vinegar gave me acid reflux and pepsin and betaine (stomach enzyme and acid combination capsule) put me in a lot of pain.

[Bracondale in reply to xjrs]

I'm sorry to read this xjrs. You're so well read that I'm sure you've already considered this, but the first thing that sprung to (my) mind was H Pylori....then bile reflux 🤔

[xjrs in reply to Bracondale]

refluxuk.com/diagnosis/lary...

There are some authors that blame reflux on low stomach acid and suggest taking additional acid as a treatment. However, there is currenly no scientific evidence to support this theory.

[Bracondale in reply to xjrs]

No I was thinking bile reflux into the pyloric antrum and canal (not bile reaching as far proximally/up as the oesophagus). With similar responses to you, addressing H Pylori infection and overproduction of bile (various reasons), totally stopped the problem.

[xjrs in reply to Bracondale]

All of this was many years ago. At the time I was given H pylori treatment in case. Currently I'm managing with my current regime and accepting I have remaining food intolerances. Though I do try to push the boundaries now and again by retesting foods and sometimes I'm able to add more foods back into my diet. It would be great if doctors could put us in a scanning machine or take some blood and be able to 100% tell us what the root cause of what our individual issues are and how to fix them. Until then there is much theorising plus trial and error.

[Bracondale in reply to xjrs]

And then of course, treatment for H Pylori, if the 'Triple Therapy', doesn't do any favours to the microbiome. I've often said to my husband 'if only if we could have an emissions test just like cars...just plug us in and get a readout!' The closest to this that is available, seems to be an OAT (organic acids tests), though at about £200 are not cheap. Were these to be used by the NHS (in UK) it's my strong conviction that many issues could be treated much earlier/nipped in the bud by addressing nutritional/functional issues. Prevention is much better than cure!

[xjrs in reply to Bracondale]

I had those tests done. They cost a fortune and it was a complete waste of time and money. The people who interpret the results are not scientists and the scientific toolkit to fix IBS issues are not there yet. None of this should be done under commercial operations as is done presently. People are making money out of half baked science. We don't know enough about all the markers that have an influence over IBS.

Regulated IBS research centres where individuals are studied closely by proper scientists to get to the root cause of issues and come up with strategies to treat them are badly needed. This is alongside doing retrospective analysis about everything that we have found out about IBS so far scientifically to feed into those investigations. As more and more people pass through, more and more common threads will arise allowing people to be put into various categories for which solutions will need to be found.

[Bracondale in reply to xjrs]

Agree, these tests seem expensive (at least for those used to using the 'free' NHS). Of course it is important for them to be interpreted by a practitioner with expertise in human biochemistry/physiology, and then there is gold to be had! They have been absolutely pivotal in my progress. The pathways underlying IBS will of course be multifactorial and complex...it is 'functional' in nature, so it'd be naive to think otherwise. But with a willingness to think laterally and join the dots, progress can be made. There are already multiple markers on the OAT that will give clues about the root causes of IBS. Dr Gail Clayton is an absolute master of OAT interpretation. Far from being half baked science, it is actually way ahead of the blinkered thinking still pervading conventional medicine ie lets just throw a few pharmaceutical preparations at the problem and not really consider what is happening re biochemistry/physiology. That Gail Clayton is an ex-pharmacist speaks volumes!

[xjrs in reply to Bracondale]

What tests did you have done? Who interpreted them? What was the result? What were the treatments that were 'pivotal in [your] progress'?

[Bracondale in reply to xjrs]

Organic Acid tests (Great Plains and Genova). Functional Medicine Practitioners conversant in such tests. One of several issues very helpfully detected ...... Transketolase test (thiamine/vitamin B1) was normal. Symptoms suggested low thiamine despite taking generous amounts of supplemental B1 (ie higher than the RDI) and being on a ketogenic diet (which requires much less B1 than a carbohydrate-based diet). An OAT confirmed that I was 'functionally' low in B1 (ie needed a much higher dose than would be expected). As thiamine is vital for energy production at the cellular/mitochondrial level throughout the body (connected with feeding of substrates into Kreb's Cycle) and all the downstream ramifications of that, increasing B1 intake improved issues with vagus nerve functioning and so digestion, gut motility, gut inflammation, immune system (mainly in gut), dysbiosis and tolerance of carbohydrates, to name but a few.

[Luisa22 in reply to xjrs]

I suppose the only "good thing" to be taken from that is that you almost definitely don't have a low stomach acid problem. Vinegar did me no good either, and I won't repeat the experiment. I also tried lemon juice in warm water in the morning, but that gave me a feeling of indigestion for a few hours. I had to have a Rennie by late morning. That one won't be repeated either.

It was worth giving it a try though, I suppose.

[Bracondale]

I've used both successfully, but apple cider vinegar specifically can be high in histamine (for those who have issues with histamine), but it can have beneficial probiotics in it too, especially if it still has the 'mother' with it. Not sure about ordinary vinegar 🤔re histamine. You make a good point about using a straw with vinegar. The same applies if you use lemon juice before a meal. Out of interest, I have also used apple cider vinegar capsules (sent as a free sample with another product) which avoids the potential dental concern.

[grumpyold]

I used apple cider vinegar with the mother for years. Gave it up and switched to the gummies which are much kinder to my tooth enamel and still have the same beneficial effect on my gut.

I was sceptical about the gummies but they have been great. Much easier to take away on holiday too!

[Starfush]

you say your a fit man for your age. Do you regular exercise with intensity. If you are your probably depleting magnesium among other essential minerals.

[SpongeJim in reply to Starfush]

Ah ok. Thank you for this. I'll give it some thought about how to replenish