Betaine and Pepsin- does it work? No response to treatment

[Catatvet05]

Hello All,

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas Day. I managed to eat a little of what I normally can’t eat. I paid for it 😂

I wanted to ask if anyone has tried Betaine and Pepsin and what was the result? Did anyone’s reflux and any other symptoms such as cramps, stomach pains, etc eased or disappeared completely? And how long until see any difference?

I’ve been taking Betaine supplements since Tuesday just or during meals (there are different options of how take it). Unfortunately I’m still experiencing all symptoms- no changed.

I wondered if it’s because I don’t have low stomach acid (ph test a year ago concluded my acid level was normal but have all the symptoms of low stomach acid 🤨). I wanted to give it a go since I’ve tried ALOT of treatments/products, etc.

Do I carry on and give it a week or so or discontinue and possibly try digestive enzymes instead?

I had tried digestive enzymes earlier in the year: a digestive product that was mixed other remedies combined but it worsened my acid reflux. However, I could possibly try an original version that contains just the digestive aids? Since my symptoms could not be related to low stomach acid and just hormonal imbalance?

I’m also trying homeopathy (no luck either and don’t really want to continue it).

Has anyone had good results from drinking Holy Basil tea? I’ve been drinking the Pukka version since Monday and nothing has changed. I’ve heard it can ease reflux if you have problems with hormonal imbalance?

It’s costing me a fortune so far and just disappointed that nothing has worked? 🥲

Take care A

[Hidden]

Hi Catavet, I've not tried either. I had nausea over Christmas, it went yesterday afternoon fortunately but I know that was because I had homemade vanilla cheesecake which isn't a low fodmap recipe.

Have you had all the tests for IBS and any other conditions apart from low stomach acid? Just a thought because if it's IBS then fortunately you could try the low fodmap diet which works in 75% of people, it worked for me and I now keep a food diary all the time.

I hope that someone is able to help re the Betain and Pepsin.

Take care 🤗

[Catatvet05 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks.

Other tests like an endoscopy, stool, etc. I was diagnosed with h pylori in August and had Candidas back in 2018. This all started from a traumatic event back in 2016-2017.

I’ve tried the FODMAP diet - it’s okay but most foods upset my stomach, which is why I’ve turned to Betaine.

I just need advice from others who have tried a Betaine supplement, and what was their results?

[Hidden in reply to Catatvet05]

Thank you for letting me know the tests you've had.

Sorry I can't answer your question and I hope someone can.

Good luck

Alicia

[xjrs]

I've tried both betaine and enzymes and both made my symptoms worse.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Sounds as if you didn’t need it. Could be that your ph level is fine? Mine hasn’ just no change which could mean the same? How long were you using it for? I guess results can be quite instant if you have a sensitive stomach and that is normally the case for me. Thanks

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

The betain gave me intestinal pain, which was one of my dominant symptoms at the time. I was probably using it for a few days to a couple of weeks and gave up. Even tiny amounts of enzymes also give me pain. I understand that enzyme deficiency is rare. My gastro said that since I am prone to reflux, this means my stomach is producing acid. Also any blood work reports on fecal elastase, which I understand to show undigested protein. Stomach acid is required to help break down proteins. Logically if fecal elastase is OK, you have acid to break down proteins. You've also had a PH test to say that this was normal - that test would be the definitive.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Yes what you are saying makes logical sense. I’m able go to go to the loo. However, I don’t believe my food is digesting well since I am always suffering some form of reflux or IBS symptoms: my stools shows that my food is not digesting.

The doctors can’t explain why my reflux symptoms are constantly affecting me at every meal and when I’m asleep, and sitting up. The only way to describe my acid reflux symptoms is like a tap that is constantly leaking- the acid coming up.

People who suffer with reflux issues can be a result of low stomach acid: the cause of h pylori, pains in stomach, bloating, acid reflux, brittle nails, food that is not digested in stools, etc - these are some of signs and it matches mine.

Maybe it would be best to focus on enzymes or Zinc-L-Carnosine? That seems to help heal stomach from h pylori and gastric issues?

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

I made a note in my Symptom Tracker of what happened when I took Zinc Carnosine:

I took 1 capsule Drs Best Pepzin GI Zinc Carnosine on an empty stomach and immediately started breakfast - had trapped gas, belching and slightly elevated heart rate all day (76-80 bpm)

.

I then found this information:

fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bu...

... gas almost immediately, then queasiness

Ans: people with histamine intolerance issues may react negatively to the carnosine component in zinc carnosine being L-histidine.

On this basis I stopped taking it. However, everyone's makeup is different.

In relation to reflux, have you been diagnosed with hiatal hernia? Are PPIs helpful?

Unfortunately I don't have experience of h pylori.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Thank you for your response.

I was just about to make an order for the Dr.Best product.

I’m sensitive to most supplements especially ppi- none which have worked, and just worsened my symptoms. It’s strange because after 20 days that’s when it worsened my reflux and before that no difference.

I had an endoscopy and showed no sign of hernia.

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

Very vexing. We've probably been here before (apols if that's the case), but have you tried Alflorex probiotic for at least a couple of months? Also the fodmap elimination & reintroduction diet?

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Ha, no worries 😉 After 20 days my reflux symptoms started to worsen 💁🏻‍♀️

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

Also how long did you try PPIs for and which ones did you take? I couldn't tolerate the first lot they gave me and I got on better with Nexium (otherwise known as esomeprazole and not to be confused with omeprazole).

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Over a month and tried them.

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

They normally recommend up to 3 months for PPIs. Your Gastro can't leave you with untreated reflux due to potential long term complications. They need to work with you to come up with a solution. If all the usual remedies fail including PPIs, probiotics, dietary measures, raising the head of your bed by 20cm etc etc, there can be the option of physical intervention to tighten the lower oesophageal sphincter valve (LES) which sits between your stomach and your throat. There are different methods of achieving this. All of this needs to be discussed with your gastro, but I wouldn't let them leave you to yourself until they come up with a resolution.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

Yes this is what I’ve said. The gastric specialist said it’s functional heartburn and put me as I’ve mentioned before on Amitriptyline which did nothing. All meds take around 1-3 months to take affect and was on them for a year - on and off. Ppi is not the solution and that’s the problem with doctors.

Doctors say nothing else they can do, worst possible treatment! I’ve been referred back to the gastric but my gp seems to think nothing else they can do!

What worry’s me is the amount of acid that I can taste when I burp or with silence reflux.

My ph was normal so they seem to think that everything is fine! That’s another problem! Gastric throbs me off when I mentioned about my teeth and says many other things can errod my teeth.

Ridiculous treatment!

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

Ah, yes. I believe we've had this discussion before. So with functional heartburn you have a normal level of acid and your brain picks this up as pain. However, if you can physically taste acid, that doesn't sound like a normal level of acid in your throat. PH will show that you have acid, which your stomach needs. Potentially you have a weak LES which is allowing acid to flow back. Probiotics & dietary measures etc. help gas to reduce in some people which puts less pressure on the valve. PPIs will reduce acid so there is less to flow back. I'd defo continue with your gastro and say you won't be discharged until sorted. Did you have a gastroscopy to check for Barretts?

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

I had an endoscopy that’s it.

I was trying to explain this to my doctor that the ph test cannot be accurate since I can taste a lot of acid and have GERD symptoms: the bloating, gas, reflux burping, etc

I thought the ph test or the endoscopy would see if my valve was loose?

I can’t understand why no medication or even a diet can lower stomach acid? I’ve tried countless diets and an very under weight because of it.

I still follow FODMAP and do not eat bad sugars or anything acidic to an extent. It’s not been easy.

Doctors just say it’s me being an anxious person. They won’t run anymore tests and say they have done it all, which I personally think is limited to what actually can be done. Now she has referred me. Don’t know how long it will take?

I’ve also for several weeks religiously did breathing (mindfulness) excises in hope that it would help tighten the valve or at least calm by nerves to help with the reflux since it’s supposed to be functional heartburn but this was before I was diagnosed with HP. For all I know and even the doctor admitted I could have been unlucky that the HP wasn’t detected earlier?

When h pylori is involved normally means there is something wrong with the stomach: the lining is weak, and as a result can lower stomach acid and that can cause fermentation and loosen of the valve. It can take years for stomach and any symptoms to recover back to normal.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

I was discharged a year ago

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

I just read a link here from a nhs paper that a ph test definitely detects if your valve is working well. I thought as much because I was worried before and this confirmed it.

uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/Pi...

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

And technically it’s not reflux that I have it’s functional heartburn that’s why nothing is being done

[xjrs in reply to Catatvet05]

If it is truly functional heartburn, then the amitriptyline should have helped unless you weren't on a high enough dose. Very useful link about the PH test checking your valve. How annoying. I know, good that it is working, but not helping with your diagnosis. I think you need to be referred to a sympathetic gastro who is up for the challenge and perhaps laying everything out on a time line for them, so they can see what has been tried, for how long and get them to come up with suggestions. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[Catatvet05 in reply to xjrs]

My previous gastric saw my lists of medications that hadn’t work and just put it down to it . I agree Amitriptyline should have worked, however if I was to go beyond 30mg I seriously would not have been able to tolerate it- 30mg was unbearable, and I think I had the HP at the time.

Thank you you for your excellent responses.

[Hidden]

I could not live without Betaine. But it is not for everyone. How does your doctor know you have enough acid? Oesophageal manometry, if you have had one, I’d not a test for stomach acid. It is only dine through stomach aspiration and for research purposes in the U.K.

The symptoms of low stomach acid are the same as high stomach acid so it is difficult to tell the cause. I say this as a pernicious anaemia sufferer as we have low or no stomach acid and yet can suffer reflux which is often attributed to high acid levels.

Also havdd Ed you had your fecal elastase tested? This is NOT. a blood test as the name suggests. It tests pancreatic function and assesses how well your pancreas is producing digestive enzymes. I have EPI and so my pancreas does not produce enough enzymes to digest food so I have to take medical grade enzymes. I wouldn’t take enzymes until I had a fecal elastase test. Please also note that even if your pancreas is working properly you can still have low stomach acid as tens of thousands of PA sufferers will tell you.

In summary if you are not noticing a difference with HCL I would not take it. I would not take enzymes if your pancreas is working properly. A simple fecal elastase test will confirm this.

Once you understand these results then I would have further testing such as endoscopy, colonoscopy, calprotectin score and a pill endoscopy of the small intestine. Your GP may also want to do a upper GI ultrasound and CT scan.

I am not a doctor but have both PA and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency and have had all of the tests mentioned and do understand a bit better how it feels to have poor digestion. And by the way I still suffer from it but it is better!

I hope this helps in some small way.

[Catatvet05 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for your response.

I’ve had a ph test which came back normal; I also had an endoscopy but not the pill, a stool test was completed a few times over the years and in August 2020 was diagnosed with h Pylori. This could be the problem? I’ve had these reflux symptoms for over 3 years now and it’s ruined my teeth, and god knows what it’s doing to my throat and stomach lining?

Doctor won’t run any more tests because my ph test was normal and they can’t understand why I’ve got both reflux and teeth erosion issues! Back in 2017 I suffered a traumatic event, and it could be down to just hormonal imbalance issues.

The gastric specialist had confirmed that my reflux is not true with gastric reflux and is of functional heartburn (associated with anxiety)

I’m just desperate to get rid of it - it’s not normal.

I’m strongly considering trying Zinc-L-Carnosine and that could heal any problems with my stomach lining and gastric issues?

[Hidden]

The pH test you had looking at your oesophagus doesn’t test the acidity of the stomach. As I say there’s no NHS test for that. What symptoms do you get with Betaine? I hope debut and it works well and no reflux. If it burns your stomach then you probably have enough acid so it won’t help. I don’t know enough about zinc to be honest. I’m sorry I can’t give you any more suggestions. Did you have the eradication therapy for HPylori? If so have you been retested? It is not unusual for the first set of drugs not to work.

[Catatvet05 in reply to Hidden]

Nhs Ph test that I had measured the amount and severity of acidic stomach contents.

uhb.nhs.uk/Downloads/pdf/Pi...

I was retested twice for HP over 2/3 months and no sign of HP. Treatment can help remove bacteria but symptoms can take up to a year to recover, unfortunately.

I’ve stopped taking Betaine- was using for 5 days and no change in my reflux symptoms. I didn’t have any burning or anything though I felt bloated about - just didn’t see any help.

However, I’m trying ashwagandha powder and holy basil tea and that is good to settle nerves, etc.

Thanks