The problem with Buprenorphine, BTBD9... - Restless Legs Syn...

Restless Legs Syndrome

22,313 members16,370 posts

The problem with Buprenorphine, BTBD9 and serotonin syndrome

Typicallygaslit profile image
31 Replies

This is for those of you who are really struggling with the remedies for RLS. Apologies for not referencing all my research but I’ve been completely wiped out for weeks now. However I wanted to share some insights I’ve had recently and hope it inspires thoughts and research.

Adenosine is a chemical that normally builds up in the blood during the day and causes sleep pressure in the brain in the evening. We basically sleep it off. Being active during the day is helpful for the build up of adenosine, and this is obviously bad news for those of us who suffer from chronic fatigue and immobility. This process is known by researchers to be problematic in people with RLS. Adenosine regulates dopamine and glutamate and as we know, these excitatory neurotransmitters are also at the heart of RLS.

The problem with Buprenorphine is that it acts very much like coffee. Coffee is a well known inhibitor of adenosine receptors, but tea and chocolate have this effect as well. In other words, when you take Buprenorphine (or any other opioid), you are very likely to feel awake. (I already have this problem at midnight and Buprenorphine exacerbates it). Another problem with Buprenorphine and other opioids is that they mess with the sleep quality. Also - the more of such stimulating substances you use, the more adenosine receptors are being created, it seems. This could explain surplus tiredness. (I’m aware that some people find some coffee helpful and so it’s possible that a small amount of either stimulates the dopamine needed to sleep, but I won’t go into that here).

Researchers are suggesting that Zopiclone can reverse the adenosine blockage. This is also my experience. Here is an article:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

(Warning: contains graphic descriptions of animal trials).

I have personally struggled with Buprenorphine for a host of reasons. That’s despite the fact that it’s a whole lot better than any other opioid I’ve tried! After a year of usage, it has become clear that I must try and keep the dosage as low as humanly possible, otherwise I will be up all night doing all those things I should be doing during the day (suddenly cleaning the bathroom seems like a great idea, and so does spending money on shopping for things online! This is all dopamine induced behaviour). It’s also clear that the Buprenorphine dosage is relative to the amount of Zopiclone I’m allowed to take (max 2 x 7.5 mg/night). Because of Buprenorphine, I also experience severe daytime depression and severe sweats both day and night. These opioid induced hot flashes often wake me up so I have a fan running through the night.

There is nothing much I can tolerate as a counter remedy other than good old Zopiclone. I also use some Diazepam and tiny amounts of Quetiapine. The latter also counteracts some of the excitatory events that promote insomnia although it has a negative effect on the RLS. For instance, opioids stimulate mast cells, and this increases histamine release. Quetiapine is, amongst other things, antihistaminic and anticholinergic. It also lowers serotonin so would theoretically have a positive effect on melatonin induced RLS since melatonin is made from serotonin, but unfortunately as we all know, sedating antihistamines trip us up. (I’ve been stuck with it all these years because there’s a cap on the amount of Zopiclone I’m allowed to use).

I get some stomach acidity from Buprenorphine and often use Rennies as all other acid controlling substances increase RLS (note that one of the inactive ingredients in Gaviscon is aspartame, and it’s made from phenylalanine, which in turn is the precursor to dopamine). Dry mouth is also a problem, especially if you snore. My GP found one remedy that didn’t contain the dreaded sorbitol like all the others: Galen Salivix spray.

All this is very tricky. I have tried every remedy under the sun and there is almost nothing left that I tolerate in one way or another. Whatever is supposed to put people to sleep, seems to trip me up. The sleepier I feel, the more likely I am to wake up from RLS. I don’t tolerate most supplements including iron and magnesium. I tried THC which is said to increase adenosine, but I didn’t tolerate it over time. I have even quit drinking green tea (one of few pleasures I have left) as I suspected it was blocking adenosine build up during the day. This seems to have helped a little bit. Food wise I just continue with a healthy diet, but I avoid fortified products. I found for instance that some smoothies are packed with vitamin B’s that, in my case, trip up the RLS. I need a sensible snack before bed because otherwise I’ll wake up from severe hunger pangs (one reason could be that adenosine stimulates ghrelin, which regulates the appetite).

My sleep quality is very poor and I tend to have the best sleep in the afternoon. Of course, some RLS researchers suggest doing just that i.e. sleep in the afternoon, but for obvious practical reasons, I can’t continue like this. I’ve been trying to establish some kind of routine and effective timing so that break through RLS is dealt with early in the evening with a small dose of Buprenorphine, and then a little later I take some more. If I take too little, I keep waking up with restlessness, and if I take too much, I’m awake all night and sleep all day. Driving can be down right dangerous as Buprenorphine and a short night can cause the experience of sleep debt (I’m guessing it’s the adenosine acting out in the day time instead of the night because of having been stimulated, but not consumed).

I keep experimenting and I’m writing a diary to keep track of the fluctuations. I’m now totalling at about 350 mcg per night, but as I said, I’ve been enormously tired during the day, and sometimes I’ve slept some crazy amount of hours that then obviously keeps me up the next night. 400 mcg would be more ideal if it didn’t keep me awake and cause day time tiredness. And so on - it’s chaotic beyond belief. Thankfully I have an understanding GP (not sure he understands much but he’s quite accepting).

I have also discovered that I have the genetic variant for RLS. The gene concerned is BTBD9. It’s known to contribute to RLS and it does have something to do with poor iron metabolism and adenosine build up. Nothing much one can do about that! In addition, it’s clear to me that I suffer from serotonin toxicity which is a mild form of serotonin syndrome. Symptoms include nightmares, tachycardia, frequent need to pee, agitation, diarrhoea, vomiting and more (i.e. it’s all very similar to problems I also experience when RLS is high). You can read more here, for example: academic.oup.com/painmedici... .

The article elucidates the problem some of us have with both serotonin and dopamine agonists. I don’t know if this equals RLS or if it’s a deeper issue that encompasses the RLS, or what..?. This problem is known to occur in individuals with connective tissue disorders, and this interesting to me since I have hEDS - but little else is known. There are black lists online of medication that can cause serotonin syndrome and I have found that I have problem with a huge number of them (i.e. all the ones I’ve tried). The lists contain all the drugs that are problematic for RLS but there are also drugs that many people with RLS do tolerate (e.g. dopamine agonists) that I don’t tolerate for (what seems to be) this very reason. It leaves me with a very small pool of options. For instance, I do use Tramadol (a serotonin inducing opioid) occasionally because it has a calming effect when I’m really out of my wits, but it quickly builds up in my system and starts causing severe problems, so I can’t take it regularly. Even paracetamol, which acts on pain by engaging serotonin receptors, will have a negative effect on the RLS. I still take small amounts for pain relief and sedation but have to weigh it carefully against the Buprenorphine. RLS is such a paradoxical problem because it sits at the opposite end of the popular idea that more melatonin will produce better sleep - melatonin, which is made from serotonin, seems to be the culprit in our case.

I hope this is helpful. Sorry if it’s an overwhelming amount of information. I wanted to share this, not look for any of the usual responses along the lines of ‘have you tried this’ :). Feel free to fact check.

Written by
Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
31 Replies
Joolsg profile image
Joolsg

Really helpful and interesting. Many people experience the wakefulness you mention and, hopefully, zoplicone will help them as well.Thanks for sharing your research.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toJoolsg

Thanks Jools, I’m glad you think so! :)

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toJoolsg

Oh and interestingly, I’ve used Zopiclone since 1999 and doctors don’t want to believe that it’s still working for me! 🙄

BocaMom profile image
BocaMom in reply toTypicallygaslit

I believe you - have used a very small dose of zolpidem (another “Z” drug) and I’ve never needed to up my dose.

Floordefleur profile image
Floordefleur

thank you so much for your effort to write this🙌🏼

Shir_11 profile image
Shir_11

I have been on Buprenophine for the last 3 years and it hasn’t affected my sleep pattern or any of the other symptom you mentioned.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toShir_11

No, not everyone has these deeper problems.

Marlayna67 profile image
Marlayna67 in reply toShir_11

I’m jealous you don’t get the sweats! 😀

RLSLearner profile image
RLSLearner

Thanks for that. Such a great analysis of what is going on! One of the most frustrating things in RLS is that something that works wonders for some people can be terrible for others. Generally I would have thought of opiates as sedating. Thanks for the references, will look them up.

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply toRLSLearner

They are for many people. I'm one of them.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toJoolsg

This could have something to do with the idea that a dopamine kick kicks sleep into action. We do need excitatory neurotransmitters to sleep, as well. But do you find that the effect reverses if you take a larger dose?

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply toTypicallygaslit

I started off on 0.8mg Buprenorphine but was overcome with nausea & vomiting in the day, even though I slept 8 hours for the first time in decades. So I dropped to 0.4mg.I've never had to increase the dose.

I cannot therefore answer.

However, I know several people on larger doses who also find opioids sedate them.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toJoolsg

I also tried a bigger dose but couldn’t handle the side effects. In the summer I had foot surgery so the dose went up again. I’m awake all night but then I sleep like a log later in the day and I really hope to change this. We are certainly all presenting with very different background conditions that affect our responses. Raised histamine for instance could perhaps help some people because histamine is also needed for the process of falling asleep. Who knows.

Simkin profile image
Simkin

Interesting reading.Buprenorphine is the only thing that works for me.

I wake twice in the night as bright as a button so do my emailing etc.

Is that the opiod or just habit after years of RLS?

I am dopey during the day. Ok if I keep going but as soon as I sit down I want to sleep.

I just have to sleep for an hour between 3 & 4, if at all possible.

When I wake at night my mouth is SO dry so have to drink gallons of water or have a cup of rooibos tea.

Is that opioid or age? In my 70s.

Sadly zopiclone sends my legs into overdrive. But I haven't tried it with buprenorphine?

Does it keep you asleep at night?

I have not slept through the night for about 30 years so I think night time waking is habit rather than buprenorphine???

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toSimkin

That sounds a lot like how it is for me, too. I don’t believe in simple ‘habit’, I believe there is always a physiological reason. Could be RLS or PLMS waking you up. Or overheating if you get that? This is definitely getting harder as we age - also the side effects. I worry about the future, that’s for sure.

Zopiclone helps but it’s not perfect. I have now tried spreading it out over the night and that seems to help keeping me asleep. As long as I don’t need more Buprenorphine because it will then override the benzos. I also have some Diazepam I can add but it doesn’t always help if I’m very wakeful and maybe adrenaline pumped. How much Buprenorphine do you use?

I’m trying to think of safe drinks to drink apart from water! Thanks for reminding me of rooibos, I will check it out.

Simkin profile image
Simkin in reply toTypicallygaslit

I take one 200 microgram sublingual buprenorphine tablet at 10pm every night.I think that is quite a low dose.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toSimkin

Maybe that’s not high enough and that’s why you’re waking up.

DicCarlson profile image
DicCarlson

Well, just from reading Wikipedia, Zoplicone is problematic for elderly users - lots of falls reported with hip fractures, etc. Also this "...Cognitive behavioral therapy has been found to be superior to zopiclone in the treatment of insomnia and has been found to have lasting effects on sleep quality for at least a year after therapy."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopic...

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toDicCarlson

Yeah well I don’t have much choice and luckily have good balance so hopefully it won’t be a problem. Lots of elderly people have been given it indiscriminately. I would also argue that there is a confusion between causation and correlation. CBT doesn’t work for serious sleep disorders and the theory that you need more melatonin doesn’t work for RLS as it’s actually the opposite problem. I don’t ever want to hear about it again as it’s always been stuffed down my throat by prats who think they know best.

vikkitennis profile image
vikkitennis

Thank you for a very insightful research on the Buprenorphine and RLS. I began the Butrans transdermal seven-day release patch a few weeks ago, upon recommendation from the neurologist. I had to end it after day 6 for many of the reasons you cited: constant sleep problems with intermittent wake-up during the night; severe agitation in the legs, preventing me from one hour of quality sleep. I returned to the 7.5 mg methadone thereafter, which works best for me. I do find diet is important, as I eat little sugar, and have mostly a vegetarian diet. however, age is a factor, and as we age, and what I have read from this forum, RLS is worse. All we can do is report here to this site for either trial-and-error methods until the medical society finally recognizes this is truly a problem for many of us.

dancer2 profile image
dancer2

As I have previously shared: After trying dopamine agonists for several years, Gabapentin without relief, several opioids, I have been taking Belbuca buccal films (a form of buprenorphine) for 3 plus years. Initially it worked great. However, the past few months, my RLS has increased. I take 150mcg twice a day. Recently I have tried a few times to increase the amount to 300mcg at bedtime. It has had some affect on the RLS, but leaves me so very tired the entire next day. I have also tried to take the Belbuca as prescribed but add 1/2 to 1 tablet of Klonopin. One half tablet doesn't seem to work. However, 1 tablet works but again leaves me tired the next day. (By the way, I have had an iron infusion in the past.). I have an appointment scheduled with my doctor next week. I was going to suggest increasing my Belbuca. After reading the message fromTypicallygaslit, I don't know what to do. I'm afraid I have run out of options.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply todancer2

I’m sorry to hear this. Have you considered supplements and foods that may be aggravating the RLS? I do find it fluctuates a lot and it’s hard to figure out the reasons. How did you respond to the iron infusion? Given that iron supplementation makes me worse, I don’t see that an infusion would help me. I’m trying to simplify my life as much as possible. Day time tiredness is horrible as it completely defeats the purpose of living amongst other living beings.

dancer2 profile image
dancer2 in reply toTypicallygaslit

My RLS was a bit better after the iron infusion but not alot. I am very careful about supplements and do not take any other meds that could increase my RLS. I was going to ask my doctor about increasing the Belbuca but in light of your information, I am hesitant. I really don't know what to do. Thanks.

Eryl profile image
Eryl

They're not remedies for RLS. just suppresants for the symptoms.

The only remedy I've found is to drive down systemic inflammation.

sigurdur profile image
sigurdur in reply toEryl

Yes, this is what I am working on now. Using this info rlcure.com/

Eryl profile image
Eryl in reply tosigurdur

The principal way to reduce inflammation is to avoid processed food including anything containing refined sugar and starch, even bread and other flour based foods, also avoid fruit juices and refined seed oils. Stick to cold pressed olive oil, animal fats or coconut oil.

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toEryl

You obviously don’t belong on this thread so could you please take your discussion elsewhere? I specifically asked not to hear ‘have you tried this’.

Palamino profile image
Palamino

Well u sound very similar to me I'm awake alot of the night end up eating or doing house stuff or buying stuff online !! Dry mouth and wringing water body . Drives me nuts . I work nights when I do work so sleep pattern a bit mixed up anyway but I tend ro be so tired in the day I can't get out of bed have lots of broken sleep then obviously can't sleep at nite. I'm on Bupromorphine 0.8 take 2 in morn amd 1 at nite . Plus zapain pain killers and knee in a blue moon take clonazepam but still rarely sleep .. RLS messes with your life and emotions so much and were all different so what works for one doesn't for another . Good job we have this group to support each other

Typicallygaslit profile image
Typicallygaslit in reply toPalamino

Ugh ;(. Perhaps it still helps a little bit that you have a reason to sleep in the day time if you work night shifts..? Not that I understand how anyone can manage it to be honest.

RLSLearner profile image
RLSLearner in reply toPalamino

Palamino, obviously ideally you take Bupe once a day and get 8 hrs of glorious sleep. It has a long half life and should only need to be taken once daily. So if you need a top up and a second Bupe makes you too sleepy would a short acting opiod be better? Maybe not ideal mixing opioids but none of this is ideal.

Palamino profile image
Palamino in reply toRLSLearner

Hi its prescribed as twice a day if I only took it once my legs would start again after . It works for my legs it doesn't make me sleepy at all I seem to have built up a resistance to pain killers amd some sleeping pills it takes alot to knock me out I'm afraid

Not what you're looking for?

You may also like...

Trialling Buprenorphine and Dipyramidole - experience

Hello everyone! I’ve been around for a little while but I’ve been waiting for something definite to...

CBD oil with Buprenorphine

Hello friends :) I have an appointment this week with a private clinic to enquire about the...
smilingjane profile image

Morphine not working on RLS? Any experience?

Does anyone have any experience of morphine in the treatment of RLS? I have had to come off...

Buprenorphine.....I slept through the night.

Last night I commenced Buprenorphine 200 micrograms (As hydrochloride) In Western Australia it is...
Jules1953 profile image

Buprenorphine and TMS

I have been taking Buprenorphine. 5mg for about 3 months with good control about 30 minutes after...
teakabeagle profile image

Moderation team

Kaarina profile image
KaarinaAdministrator

Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.

Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.