Controversial query re causality of PLMD

[wantokporo]

Most of you are RLS sufferers, but my question is more about PLMD, which is treated with similar medications in Western medicine protocols but is not the same condition (Eastern medicines treats them differently). Anyway, to the degree anyone knows, it is obvious that PLMD can cause depression and anxiety, but my question is can depression and/or anxiety express themselves symptomatically as PLMD? (Years ago I went to my second cognitive behavioral therapy sleep group and the doctor who led it made that claim and dismissed my raising PLMD as an obstacle).

[SueJohnson]

No

[ChrisColumbus]

Depression/anxiety is not recognised as causing PLMD. (Tricyclic antidepressants, neuroleptics, anti-nausea drugs, anti-histamines, and lithium are believed to contribute to/influence PLMD).

[ziggypiggy]

I don't think science really knows if the brain manifests anxiety or depression when we are asleep. Alot of us anxiety sufferers stim while awake as a way to cope with it. I constantly move my feet when awake or shake my leg. Who knows. Maybe the brain continues body movements when we are asleep as a continuation. During my sleep study my PLMS were about once a minute. And my dreams are often filled with anxiety. I have to replace my sheets to dang often as i rub holes into them wear my feet are, even with full relief from RLS with my opiods. Most PLMS when asleep are not necessarily big jerks but minute spasms that are just enough to keep us out of restorative sleep but not enough to wake us.

Sorry for the rambling thoughts.

Best of luck.

[Edengirl58]

Hi, you may be interested to read about Mind And Body syndromes on website unlearnyourpain.com. This is about the ability of the brain to create/exacerbate/wind up real (horribly real as we know) physical symptoms and provides strategies to ‘unlearn’ or ‘retrain’ the brain circuits. It bridges the divide between conventional western treatments which address either physical or mental health and treats them separately, and can be used for all chronic conditions where there is no clear physical cause, and where symptoms vary or are worse at some times than others. It is used for anxiety and depression too. I hope this helps you.

[CsiguZ]

IMHO the root cause of anxiety, depression as well as PLMD might be related to the health of your gut. In the recent years most of the neurological disorders were associated with gut disorders especially the condition of the microbiome.

In addition to my RLS I have severe PLMD/PLMS as well. And it seems in my case really my gut health is the root cause of my symptoms. At the moment I’m trying to fix my gut again using herbal antimicrobials and my RLS symptoms are milder now and starts later than usual and my PLMD is completely gone. I had the similar experience in the past, but as soon as I stopped the antimicrobials, my symptoms were back in few days. Unfortunately based on my microbiome test I have a superbug in my gut called Pseudomonas Aeruginosa, which is a highly antibiotic resistant bacteria and nearly impossible to eradicate. But I won’t give up and will find the way how to get rid of it entirely.

[thorp in reply to CsiguZ]

Like you I have severe RLS and also PLMD

I found your ideas on possible gut involvement very interesting

Could you possible tell me what herbal antimicrobials you take

I do hope you manage to get rid of this superbug.It sounds awful

Good luck and thank you again for your input

[CsiguZ in reply to thorp]

Before you start to fix your gut I’d recommend to get some tests related to your gut health. Firstly a lactulose (not lactose) breath test, which is used to detect SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth). dr Leonard B Weinstock had some studies on the connection of SIBO and RLS. I had a positive lactulose breath test. A stool microbiome test is also useful to check your actual gut health. These tests can point out potential issues in your microbiome and gut health, like dysbiosis, inflammation, leaky gut etc. My test showed low count of beneficial bifidobacteria and lactobacillus species, while I had a very high count of a toxin producing, highly antibiotic resistant Pseudomonas Aeruginosa bacteria (50 times more than the overall bifido and lactobacillus species). Interestingly I do not have such bad gut related symptoms, only some stomach cramps after meals and few times a year diarrhea out of nowhere which doesn’t last more than a day.

Also I’d recommend gastroscopy and colonoscopy, to check for inflammation etc. It was found an inflammation in my duodenum, very likely due to SIBO.

To answer your question, at the moment I take a biofilm dissolving product which contains enzymes to break the biofilm produced by P. Aeruginosa, because the biofilm protects them against antibiotics/antimicrobials and a herbal antimicrobial blend which contains grapefruit seed extract, tea tree oil, rosemary and thyme. Also take S. Boulardii and Lactobacillus Reuteri probiotics away from the antimicrobials. If I wouldn’t succeed, I’ll change the biofilm buster product to a stronger one and maybe try other antimicrobials, like oregano oil or allicin.

[KellyDBrille in reply to CsiguZ]

Bifidobacterium longum is also great for p. aeruginosa!

[CsiguZ in reply to KellyDBrille]

Do you have a link to any study on this?

[amrob123]

My son's sleep specialist seems to think yes, in relation to anxiety. When I said I hadn't seen any papers reporting on the phenomenon, he said that there is anecdotal evidence for it.