Pramipexole

[moggie8]

Hi I've taken pramipexole.125 with sometimes extra half. Dropped the half over week ago to play it safe. Anyhow I've been taking magnesium 3 hours apart from the Sifrol and a calcium tablet and hour later. Haven't had the RSL since week and a half ago Coming down I think someone said the first 5 days the worst . But I don't know what it is I'm experiencing severe body stiffness where I can hardly move , also feel like I'm on a rocky boat feeling and blurred vision. I also stopped my mysendol a week and a half ago . Are these stiffness and other symptoms part of the withdrawal, without the restless legs? Thanks

[Joolsg]

news-medical.net/drugs/Mers...

This article explains side effects of Mersyndol. Perhaps you are experiencing withdrawal from that.

But it contains codeine and would help you get off Pramipexole.

Usual withdrawal symptoms of DA word are increased, very severe RLS. Violent leg jerks. Little sleep. Severe anxiety and depression.

The withdrawal schedule on RLS-UK website under Useful Resources sets out what to expect.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Oh ok I only take one, don't know if that matters .? Also apparently it makes RSL worse, because of the analgesic in it that's when the RSL stopped. Other than those 2 questions regarding Sifrol as you come down a dose, dose the anxiety decrease? Thanks again

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

Opioids definitely do NOT make RLS worse. They were the first medications ever used for RLS in 1670 by Dr Willis in London.And many of us take opioids after decades on dangerous dopamine agonists because the DAs damage our dopamine receptors and then iron infusions and gabapentinoids do not work.

And anxiety does usually increase as you reduce Sifrol. The worst time is when you drop the last half 0.125mg pill.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Hi yes I know opioids do not make RSL worse , it's the antihistamine doloxamin in it that makes the RSL worse not the codeine..

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

Ah- I see. I've just looked up the ingredients. It is a cocktail of opioids and sedating anti histamines.Get hold of plain codeine or tramadol or oxycodone to help with dopamine agonist withdrawal symptoms.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Thanks joolsg I'm trying to get off the codeine but I haven't had the restless legs since I dropped the mysendol over week and half ago. I'm in a situation as I suffer low salt which a lot of drugs put salt down. Especially anti depressants tried several in past and tramadol I had once for after knee replacement salt for very low ended up in hospital. It's this anxiety at the moment I can't handle. Do u believe that with the anxiety it's our thoughts that fuel it., about the whole withdrawal. Did u have the rocky boat sensation coming off the Sifrol.

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

I never had depression, anxiety in my life until I went through Ropinirole withdrawal.Dopamine agonists flood your brain with dopamine, the feel good/pleasure hormone. Once you start reducing sifrol- dopamine reduces so you feel anxiety & depression.

So it's a common withdrawal symptom. Your thoughts aren't fuelling it.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Hi I gather the pregabalin and gabapentin are the same drug. I noticed u said to someone u were on buprenophine and after a month on that it gave u panic attacks.Then went back to pregabalin and it stopped . So U now are on buprenophine. ?

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

Pregabalin and gabapentin are not the same drug. They are both Alpha2Delta ligands- so the same CLASS of drug. But they are absorbed differently and have different side effects for different people.I only used Pregabalin for a short time after I started getting panic attacks on Buprenorphine. Pregabalin is a sedating drug, so counteracts the 'alerting' effects of Buprenorphine.

Dr Buchfuhrer advised me to add a small dose of pregabalin when I emailed him about Buprenorphine panic attacks.

I used 50mg pregabalin for a few months. Then slowly reduced. The panic attacks had stopped.

I now use ONLY 0.4mg Buprenorphine. Zero RLS since June 2021 when I started Buprenorphine. No addiction. No tolerance(I haven't increased dose).

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Oh ok so u were still on the buprenophine when u got the panic but added the pregabalin in. Did the pregabalin relieve the restless legs. Was this while coming off the deadly DA. Was there many side effects of the pregabalin?. Thanks for the support it's all so complicated . I still haven't had any RSL for 2 weeks. When I think about it when I started the mysendol that's when the restless legs started.

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

No. I had been off Ropinirole for 5 years when I started Buprenorphine.Pregabalin did nothing for my RLS. I used it purely to stop opioid induced panic attacks.

You are experiencing anxiety because you are reducing a dopamine agonist AND you stopped a pain killer/anti histamine.

It seems that the anti histamine worsened your RLS.

The RLS has now settled.But you are having withdrawal from the anti histamines.

So- wait until your symptoms stabilise. Once they do- you should seriously consider reducing Pramipexole. Nearly everyone will experience drug-induced worsening at some point. So you should reduce it now. Slowly. Follow the withdrawal schedule on RLS-UK website.

Start pregabalin slowly around 4 weeks before the last half dose of Pramipexole.

Side effects of pregabalin are dizziness, loss of balance, weight gain. Most settle after 2 months. Average dose for RLS is 150-200mg.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Ok I have slowly started reducing the pramipexole.This Friday coming I'm supposed to reduce the pramipexole0.125 to hal f of that for 2 maybe 3 weeks.The antihistamine in mysendol was only5 mg. And codeine is 9.75. I only took the tablet one every night . U wouldn't think that would cause this delemer. So does that withdrawal schedule sound right with pramipexole?

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

Yes. Here's the link to the website withdrawal schedule.Scroll down. You can print off the page.

rls-uk.org/useful-resources

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

diamondrehabthailand.com/wh...

The anxiety is likely to be anti histamine withdrawal. The above article explains it.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Hi did you look at what I said my withdrawal plan ,what do u think of that. I dropped the extra half 2 weeks ago and if I drop the other half of the 0.125 in a few days . What can I take if the beast comes back. Codeine?? No oxycontin doctor won't do that plus makes me sick Then I get your advice once we move down more ?

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

Sorry - I had said yes.And what you suggest is as per the RLS-UK withdrawal schedule.

You drop half a 0.125mg pill every 2 weeks.

To settle increased RLS you will need an opioid. If you can't take oxycodone- tramadol 50mg or codeine 60mg.

Opiods help a little. But you cannot avoid withdrawal symptoms.

I only know of around 3 people who escaped hellish withdrawal.

But- once through withdrawal the RLs settles to what it was before you started the dopamine agonists.

So iron infusions can resolve many cases.

But most will need meds for life.

Pregabalin or gabapentin are now first line meds. If they don't help after 2 to 3 months- an opioid will be needed.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

And you now take buprenophine . I put a a new post regarding my doctor's appointment, I showed him the Mayo algorithm and about the opioids ect he said wait for it ,no just diet change, I eat healthy anyway. Then I guess the fairies come and take my restless leg away. He bucked at the codeine he wouldn't even look properly at all the info Clearly he doesn't understand about RSL at all. So why don't all these gps want to look at the info ,do they think they know better or what. They are doctors they are suppose to have a certain amount of duty of care.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Oh does the anxiety settle as you come down does or when you get off the dam tablet

[Joolsg in reply to moggie8]

The anxiety doesn't settle until around a month after the last dose.And most doctors know zero about RLS. It is a worldwide medical scandal.

[SueJohnson in reply to moggie8]

All antidepressants except Wellbutrin and trazodone make RLS worse and even trazodone does for a few.

[moggie8 in reply to SueJohnson]

Can u tell me what u took through your withdrawal and I think u take gabapentin now,is that right.

[SueJohnson in reply to moggie8]

I didn't take anything during my withdrawal. I was lucky and did not have a bad time. Yes I now take gabapentin.

[moggie8 in reply to SueJohnson]

So I gather u weren't augmenting. We're u on pramipexole long

[SueJohnson in reply to moggie8]

I was on ropinirole and yes I was augmenting.

[moggie8 in reply to Joolsg]

Planning to go down by quarters

[Munroist]

Some people do have very difficult withdrawals and others find it easier so it's probably best to be aware of the possibility of side effects but to just take it as it comes. Reducing slowly is important to allow your body and mind to get used to the lower levels of drugs. Some people take pregabalin for anxiety and it can help with the RLS in some cases if you haven't been on DAs for too long. The good news from what you have said above is that the Restless Legs has improved so you are going in the right direction and it may need some time between reductions to settle. I'm sure Jools will come back to you

[moggie8 in reply to Munroist]

Oh thankyou for the support. I have always been on the mysendol I realized it made restless legs believe it or not but 2 weeks ago stopped that and haven't had any restless legs where as I was getting them every night. I wasn't augmenting though. So I'm just really blurred vision feeling anxious, nausea. Im due to do next drop day after tomorrow . Which will be half of 0.125. And not augmenting I think someone said it's easier to come off it

[Munroist in reply to moggie8]

As Jools said maybe you can find a similar drug to mysendol but without the antihistamines which are well known to aggravate RLS