I did a search for massagers and reviews on this forum, but could not find an exact answer to my question.
I have secondary type RLS caused by Prozac and Imipramine. I take 0.5mgs of Clonazepam at bedtime to deal with it. I sometimes go up to 1.0mg and often wean myself slowly down to 0.25mgs. It depends on how many SSRI's I am taking. I have done that for more than 10 years. I am able to do that because here in South Korea, shrinks don't mind handing benzos out. These days, I am thinking of moving back to New Zealand, but I know that in NZ doctors will not give me benzos. Therefore I worry that taking antidepressants without the sleep support of benzos might be a lot of suffering.
Recently I weaned myself off Clonazepam and pushed my antidepressants to the minimum to see how I would cope. I seem to be stable at 15mgs Prozac per day, but have failed to be stable multiple times at 10mgs. 15mgs seems to be my sweet spot, but the RLS has really been driving me nuts. It is every night. I'm in bed for 10 hours because I lose at least 3 or 4. I'm sure everyone here knows what I mean.
I have thought about taking iron supplements, but I worry about that because of haemochromatosis. It has killed a few people in my family, and I am aware that I have the gene. Whether it is expressed or not, doctors in Korea couldn't tell me - the disease doesn't seem to exist here.
So, that is my background. What I am interested in is hearing about member's experiences with combination foot and calf massage machines with rollers and balls and air bladders. I went to the store tonight to check some out. they were 200 to 400 dollars. I was surprised at how firmly they massage. It felt good - painful even!
Has anybody here had success with these massage machines?
I already appreciate any replies! thank you everyone!
Michael
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misterkiwi
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Since noone has replied to you, I'll give you my limited experience.I have a massage chair which has leg rollers to massage the calves. I found them good for the muscles, but actually set off the ticklies.
I also have a percussive hammer action vibrator which is really good. When the ticklies attack, I whack them with this bad boy. Up and down the legs for 15 mins.
Usually calms them down enough to allow time to get to sleep. These can be got on the inet easily enough. Probably plenty where you are, though you may get some knowing looks when ordering!😏😜
There was some discussion on this site off and on, but opinion seemed to be divided.
Cost would be a factor, but mine was about €30, 10 years ago. So ,worth a try?
Reading around, I noticed that too - some people seemed to get relief from massage, while others were triggered. I thought that was very odd.
The machine I tried yesterday had leg rollers, foot rollers and inflation/compression massage for the calves. I was exhausted last night and couldn't sleep because I was overtired. I ended up taking 0.5mgs Lorazepam, 0.25mgs Clonazepam, and 0.5mgs of Xanax to get to sleep in the end (Normally I wouldn't take more than the Clonazepam). But I did notice that I felt no RLS in my feet or legs during the hour and a half it took to get to sleep. I theorized that might have been because of the 30 minutes of massage machine earlier in the evening, but I'm not sure.
I slept for 13 and a half hours. When I woke up in the afternoon, I was no longer overtired, but my wife did tell me that the RLS had been active during the night. I was so dead to the world, I had no idea, as usual.
What I am hoping for is a massage technique that will last long enough to get me to sleep. Your percussive hammer action vibrator seems to do exactly that for you. So I think that is a great tip for me and a good place to start - thank you so much Madlegs!
Hello there. I too have used a percussive hand held massager for years and it is the only thing that stops my very severe RLS for long enough to get a bit of sleep before of course being awakened again. If you get one you need a heavy one with a strong percussive movement otherwise they don’t work. Best of luck
Thank you bedith! You make me feel hopeful. If a percussive hand held massager helps you with very severe RLS, then it might do wonders for me - I think mine is mild to moderate most of the time.
I have a Theragun (percussive massager) that I use when I get restless legs before I am ready to take my medicine, or when I am ready to take my medicine and go to be, but have active RLS symptoms. (I am taking roinirole .5mg, which if taken before symptoms works totally, but in the presence of symptoms, seems to take forever to offer relief).
I have recently updated my massage arsenal with a MedMassager for feet and calves. I use it when I have symptoms while I am watching TV or reading and want less disruption for getting back on track. I use it the very minute I feel my pre-restless legs feelings. Immediately, I grab the device and place my calves on it and it has worked every time in this capacity. Last night, with full blown symptoms, it did not work and I had to go to my Theragun for relief. But since I have had the MedMassager, it has worked great to stave off RLS when I notice the pre-RLS feelings and use the device right away.
Quite frankly, I wouldn’t want to be without either one. I consider them great helps. The Theragun for full blown symptoms, and the MedMassager for treating RLS feelings early and quick before they become maddening.
Thank you Debra for your advice! The percussive massagers seem to be very popular, so you have me thinking I need one of those too now - especially when travelling. I have also been looking at a vibrating pad type massager like your MedMassager. I thought that might be the way to go when I feel like just putting myself on something, like you do when you watch TV. Like you, I can feel the RLS coming, and hope to find a non-drug way to stave it off before it starts. Your story encourages me that it might be possible, so thank you very much for sharing!
Just wanted to add that 100% of the time that I have these pre-RLS “feelings” that it’s coming, it fully develops into RLS with no intervention. The only intervention that worked for me in the past was good old walking - but that meant I couldn’t finish watching a movie with my husband. Now with the MedMassager, probably 75% of the time I use it as soon as I get an indicator that RLS is on its way, it works to stave off full-blown symptoms so that I can have a normal evening. It’s not 100%, but I’ll take it and feel grateful!
Hi I recently purchased a hand held massager and I find it very useful. It doesn't always do the trick but I find when my legs start to ache it can give me relief. When my R L S is bad it's useful for the time you are using it and also can trigger uncontrollable jerky calves also during use, well for me anyway. Either way I still use it even just for distraction purposes. Hope this is of help
Thank you Katie! That is a help! I am getting lots of positive feedback here about hand-held type massagers. I have never had one before. I have always relied on meds, exercise and stretching. You make me feel like I have really been missing out. Thank you for sharing Katie!
I also have the hammer massager Slyphim. Cost $59. Very good product. Also got Cordless leg massagers Qunear on Amazon for $79. I love them as they are so easy to put on. Keep them by the bed. They are rechargeable and keep a charge for 3 hrs. and have a 20 min. shut off time. Even though they use blow up balloons it feels like a rolling massage. So much better than hassling electric cord. Also wonderful for traveling by car, plane or train. Can be charged with a phone charger.
Thank you for your reply Ginge! Another vote in favour of percussive hammer massagers. I must have been missing out. The Qunear massager intrigues me too. I watched a video presentation by a Dr. Winkelman (youtube.com/watch?v=i-U9tcA..., and he said there was statistical evidence supporting pnuematic compression devices as therapy. He seemed to think they were very good. So I think I should take a look at those too. Thank you once again Ginge. I really appreciate it!
I am 83. I was diagnosed with Haemochromatosis three years ago. I evidently have the gene from a parent but they never were told they had it. My son also, at 55 has been diagnosed. I was always considered anemic, according to blood tests so was given iron. Of course later it was realized that the iron was residing on my organs. I was diagnosed after my platelets went over 1000. Then I saw a Hematologist and they said the high platelets were from having Haemochromatosis. I have been taking Hydroxyurea 500 mg. Started at 4 a week and am now down to 3 a week. I give blood every three months. I feel good and have no side affects. I tell you this so you won't worry that you will die if you are diagnosed with this. There is no doubt you carry the gene. I would talk to a Hematology Dr. and have those tests (above). If your platelets and or ferritin is high then it may be time to start treatment. Take charge of your own body. Sorry about the RLS. Yes I also have that. I took Ropinirole for three yrs. until it augmented. I am now on Pregabalin. I seem to one of the fortunate as this med has stopped my RLS (for now). I take only 50 mg 2 hrs. before bed. If I wait until RLS starts then Ropinirole or Pregabalin do not help OR take a long time. Everybody on here is different and we get so much hope when we hear that something, anything is helping.
Thank you Ginge! I am sorry to hear you have Haemochromatosis. And your son too... I'm just glad you have both been diagnosed and know what to do about it. I think part of the problem in my family has been a reluctance or neglect to go to the doctors. Maybe it is the expense? My mother hasn't been to a doctor in 20 years!
Like you, I took Ropinirole for a few years until it augmented. I am glad to hear the Pregabalin has been a success for you! That medication may be in my future too, but I will try my best to use alternative methods as long as I can.
The last time I checked (not long ago), my serum iron levels were normal. But Haemochromatosis doesn't seem to exist in Asia. So when I turned up at the hospital, I got a lot of blank looks. They sent me away while they learned about it. The next week when I arrived, they were "experts". Ha ha!
You mention the iron residing on your organs. That is a complicated scenario I had not thought of. You have me thinking. I think I will get some more tests done and find out exactly which kinds of test I have to get to monitor my iron levels. I think the serum iron tests I have had in Korea are perhaps insufficient. So think you for opening my eyes about this some more. Your experiences and knowledge are a big help. And thank you for telling me not to worry! I really appreciate it Ginge!
The biggest developer of fear is not having enough information. You are doing great. If you RLS gets debilitating then please try Pregabalin. Not many have found alternatives that actually help OR we would all be on them. smile
Thank you Ginge!😀 I guess we have to keep on helping each other!
Lots of replies about massagers, which is great.
I would say that if you're willing to take dangerous drugs like clonazepam (AND lorazepam AND xanax), that actually aren't that effective for RLS , then it might be a good idea to stop all those and take a drug that is effective for RLS/PLMS
I don't know what the equivalent doses of the three are, but if you take all 3 at the same time this is like 3 times as much of any one of them. Maybe not an overdose, but possibly over the maximum recommended.
They will knock you out, but they're not controlling your RLS/PLMS, just blanking out your awareness of it. The sleep you have will not be good quality sleep and you'll still be kicking your wife.
If you've not known this before then the first medical treatment recommended for RLS/PLMS is either pregabalin or gabapentin. These help sleep, but also are quite effective in relieving RLS/PLMS symptoms.
Depending on how old you are, I'd say that if you're fairly mature and as yet have shown no signs of haemochromatosis, then you will probably not have it.
It's straightforward to check this by having blood tests for serum iron, transferrin saturation (TSAT) and ferritin.
If you do have haemo--- then these will be high but particularly TSAT will be more than 45%.
If TSAT is normal, then it is most likely safe to take iron.
This would however depend on your ferritin level. If this is less than 75, an oral iron supplement may help. If it's over 75 but less than 100, you may need an IV iron infusion.
I'm sure that any massage device will temporarily lessen symptoms whilst you're awake, but overall you'd be better off taking an RLS medication which would be safer than taking erratic and possibly dangerous amounts of potentially dangerous drugs that just knock you out.
An additional thought. I appreciate that you may find it difficult to manage without taking antidepressants, but ideally you should stop taking them.
Taking antidepressants, in most cases, is a short term measure to control symptoms long enough to get through a bad patch or to get psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is a better long term solution for depression.
It's not recommended to take them continuously for years, they don't help you develop resilience or coping strategies If you are susceptible to depression, then you will remain susceptible.
Unless you have bipolar disorder or some other recognised disorder then if you've been told that depression is due to a chemical imbalace, this is a myth. The theory has been dismissed.
Thank you for your detailed advice Manerva! It is greatly appreciated on my end! I've read a lot of your posts and you deserve a medal for all the help you offer people on here!
You know, I really really want to stop taking the antidepressants. I could live with them fine if not for the RLS and the sleep problems. I can tolerate the sexual side-effects. I don't care about that so much anymore. In brief, I had a very bad nervous breakdown about 11 years ago and spent the next ten years going to a psychiatrist. After all that, I thought my head had been shrunk pretty well. Then I had another episode and was misdiagnosed and mismedicated by said shrink, and had to change shrinks. It was then that I realized pyschiatrists in this country are just pill doctors. What I really needed was therapy to go with the meds. Just as you advised me, I needed a therapist to learn psychotherapy!
My new shrink has said that my first breakdown was so severe that it probably made an imprint at the neurological level, and now my nervous system has an over-reactive amygdala. That is why I was fine until the age of 38, but have been dogged by anxiety and depression problems since. I guess it is sort of like burn-in on a plasma TV. I can tell that it is some kind of trauma issue.
These days, I have been following a YouTube channel and trying to learn all I can about psychotherapy. I don't want to believe that I am doomed to a life of dependence on drugs like some others in my family. I want to believe in the neuroplasticity of the brain, so I'm going to keep on fighting and learning to confront my emotions rather than cover them over with pills. Gratitude therapy and Willingness have been big helps so far.
When it comes to RLS drugs, I have tried the DA's, and I know why you oppose them. When the RLS first turned up, the shrink put me on one. Then when it augmented, he switched me to another. Same thing. He didn't know anything about augmentation and just told me my RLS was getting worse (I'm sure you have heard this story before). After reading on here, I decided to go on a drug holiday to find out my real condition. I discovered it wasn't that bad. But the DAWs was horrible and the RLS a bear!
I have heard of gabapentin and pregabalin, but I am now leery of trying any new drugs. Maybe I should look into that more though ... I have been using benzos for more than ten years, and I know I am dependent on them. But I also know I can increase and wean myself down without problems. I know the horror stories some people have, but nobody in my family has had bad reactions or addiction problems. And 98% of the time, I take pretty small doses at bedtime only 0.25~0.5mgs Clonazepam. I guess what I am afraid of is the idea that if I took gabapentin or pregabalin, should augmenation occur, I would have to go through weaning off that. And I know I can painlessly wean myself off benzos, but if coming off a Gaba drug were like coming off DA's, I would rather (fill in your own blank).
When I read about the Gaba drugs, I read things like "it had a lower rate of augmentation than pramipexole treatment". That actually scared me. I wanted to read "zero rate". Maybe I should read up and become more informed about that.
Last thing, I'm really intrigued by your comment that if I am fairly mature, I probably don't have haemo~. I have been avoiding your advice about iron levels because I was scared of ending up like a couple of my uncles. But at 50, I guess I am mature enough, so you might be right about that. That's something I think I should chase down. Thank you for that Manerva - if I can figure out that I don't have Haemo~, then I have the iron option to work on too!
I really appreciated all of your comments and advice. You have given me some interesting things to follow up on. Actually, everyone here has helped a lot with their advice about massagers too. I'm really grateful to everyone on this forum!
Actually Manerva, you have had my mind ticking over and I just had a thought. I followed up with a bit of reading on pregabalin and noted it is used to treat GAD, which I apparently have, and helps with sleep. Maybe I should try my low dose of antidepressants with a very low dose of pregabalin instead of the benzos ... I can try it at a low dose because I don't think I need much, and see how I go ... Anyway. Thank you again.
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